Let's not spend one ounce of energy on the right !

Trying to convince the right to change is a total waste of our energy.

1. They will not change

2. They don't follow logic

3. They are not intellectual and can not synthesize information

4. Half are driven by the god of money, who to them, sent B**; the other half driven by the god of religious fanaticism, who to them sent, B**. Our reasoned arguments are no match

We MUST onlyconcentrate on retaining our base and swaying the middle. Those in the middle are are pragmatic and not driven by emotion (my definition of a swing voter). These people WILL listen to a reasonable, fact-oriented, persuasive argument. An example is my husband. Mostly voted Republican, but looked long and hard at all the information that was out and voted for Kerry for two reasons (1) B* lied about the war and (2) he worried what a right wing sc would do on social issues.

The problem now is -- how do we get enough of the middle to join us -- to create enough of a margin to offset republican fraud ?

I'm designing a radio show to light a fire under the middle.

If anyone has ideas I'd be happy to read them.

them the wrong way, I have learned that the minute they think you are too partisan or are coming from a Bush Hating angle, they stop listening. You almost have to present the information nonchalantly, almost like you are confused about it. Like, "I wanted to believe that the president went to war for the right reasons, but what makes me very concerned is that the inspectors were not finding anything in Iraq. It seems to me that a prudent person would slow down at that point. But instead, B* rushed even more. And now we are seeing all these British memos that show how much was being planned out long before."

But that was then and this is now. We have to totally reframe. B** will be gone (thank god). I think, as far as the future, the middle, effective topics where there could be room for persuasion:
1. The fish in most US rivers and lakes are unfit to eat.(Robert Kennedy's son has great info on this)- how much worse it's gotten - protection of corporate polluters
2. No one is accounting for nuclear parts - no proactive interest in non-proliferation. No equal treatment among countries. If it is ok with US the country can have them -- the opposite if we don't.
3. The deficit - the cost of the war. Wouldn't it be good if we had a war on cancer or alzheimers with that money. Just think how many people could be helped here and around the world.
4. What could happen with a right leaning sc - censorship, abortion rights
5. Wouldn't it be good to be respected in the world again by our allies. Many statistics out there on how much our allies hate us. Remember the warmth of JFKs reception in Berlin?

Sorry for the ramble -- Good luck with your broadcast and thanks for what you do !!

phone call you make to your congressperson (especially if he/she is a republi-CON). Make like you're actually one of them, but you're becoming confused and very uncomfortable with what you're seeing. That this just isn't right. That you trusted this "man" and everything he seems to be about, anymore, is just lie after lie after lie. You were all upset about Clinton being such a liar, but now - there's THIS, and you're increasingly maddened and getting panicky because bush seems to be an even worse liar than Clinton ever was. That you NEVER thought in a million years you'd see Clinton in a better light than Your Own "President."

Act like a disgruntled "true believer" and Kool-aid drinker. One who's seen enough to be teetering on the brink (of reason). Sometimes, especially if the republi-CON you're calling is a so-called moderate, or has his/her own doubts, this is enough to exacerbate that itch, and turn it into a whole-body rash.

Which is NOT a bad thing. I think it's also called psy-ops.

Good luck, hope you can give people facts with backup info for proof. Maybe then they will listen. Don't be afraid to point out the obvious, our MSM does a poor job of doing research and airing out real news.

They can't win a debate with me on issues that point out this administration's incompetence.

Even on electoral fraud they run away.

And you are right - they ignore what they don't want to hear.

It's kind of funny really - I seem to acquire 'nemesis' status right away on 'conservative' sites.
They spend all their effort and energy trying to label me a 'Liberal' so they can ignore my arguments... otherwise they might have to acknowledge I'm right most of the time.

It's sad.

Check this out:

Iraqi police vent anger at US after car bombings. 10/05/2005. ABC News Online

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200505/s1364588.htm>
Last Update: Tuesday, May 10, 2005. 10:27pm (AEST)
Iraqi police vent anger at US after car bombings
Iraqi police hurled insults at US soldiers after two suicide car bomb blasts in Baghdad killed at least seven people and left 19 wounded, including policemen.
"It's all because you're here," a policeman shouted in Arabic at a group of US soldiers after the latest in a bloody wave of attacks that have rocked Baghdad this month.
"Get out of our country and there will be no more explosions," he told the uncomprehending Americans staring at the smouldering wreck of a car bomb.

Stupidity is forever.

As soon as I here the latest RW talking points I just laugh and leave.
No need to waste my time.

Better to go after the 100,000,000 apathetic none voters than waste time and energy converting the RW.

... they are eligible to vote?

Why are they staying away? What are their concerns? And how can we address those concerns and convince them to join with us?

There's WAY more potential there, compared to this ridiculous tug-of-war over the scant handful of red voters who might come over to our side... if only we throw away enough of our Democratic ideals.

And the right knows this. They spend a lot of time and effort spreading lies and proposing disastrous legislation (such as SS Privatization and the Consumption Tax) to keep us busy.

We end up so busy preventing harmful legislation and refuting lies that Republicans are able to paint us as having no plan

shutting down Fox News and ultra-conservative talk radio. At the very least, you'd have to hold them accountable for what they say. Currently, they spew conservative rhetoric that is picked up by the undecided voter and taken as gospel. And why not, it is being broadcasted, right?

They will have the most powerful, propagandistic weapon in this fight until someone holds them accountable. I wish to God someone would sue Rush for slander.

These people uphold the moral thread of our country (or so they claim) while one was addicted to drugs and the other commited sexual harrassment repeatedly. Why does this not open the public's eyes?

The right doesn't listen to anything they don't want to hear. They never will. That's because it isn't about facts or reason or right and wrong to them. They want what they want and they will fit 'facts' and 'reason' to support that. They always have and they always will. There is no way to reach all but the most marginal of them.

And as far as the rest - the leaning right and the non-voters - well, they've been listening to progressive reasoning for the better part of a century, and it is, generally speaking, too hard for them. It's so much easier to fall in line behind bullshit like greed (capitalism!) and self-approval (nationalism!) and bigotry (other people are bad!). These are the only people that can be reached, and unfortunately reason has proven not to do very well with most of them most of the time. Don't get me wrong, reason should be part of any plan to get them on the good team, but it's not enough.

I believe we need to start calling, and keep calling, Republicanism what it is: lying, cheating, stealing and traitorous. I know, that's so strident. The media will yell at us. We're better than that. Yada-yada-yada. Too bad. It's all that most people seem to understand, and I'm not better than that.

Reason mixed with assault. It's still better than lies and hatred mixed with assault in the larger ethical scheme of things.