DUers, you have got to understand the politics behind the base closings

It's more than meets the eyes.

How many legislative seats will be lost/gained in the reshuffle and where will those losses/gains take place geopraphically?

It's similar to the prison populations. They count for reapportionment eventhough they can't vote. It's time people figured this out. These people can't vote in most states but their numbers are used to get representation in the Congress and government subsidies.

more seats in 'Red' states.

while the Blue State bases will close.

Then the GOP will run this as an issue in the 2006 campaigns. Vote Red because going Blue means you will lose your bases.

...the Repug who beat out Daschle for his Senate seat just lost a BIG base in South Dakota. Might be enough to turn SD Blue if the Dems step up.

I'm still looking at the numbers, but this could backfire IF THE DEMS STEP UP!!!

for a freshman Senator with no clout whatsoever?

One of the reasons that the electoral college fucking sucks.

the squeeze that is being put on them by the horrendous debt that is stacking up. They have even resorted to military cuts to try and save their "taxcut". They are not getting the revenues they anticipated and are starting to see the light about the oncoming trainwreck.

this is a ploy and as '06 gets closer, the bases in the Red
States will be "saved" by their Republican representatives who
can then ride this into a win. It's called "Spin to Win"

the bases will probably only be used for boot camp since the goal is send the soldiers out to conquer and rule the world.
Barnett says that the soldiers are NOT coming back.

he has this Leviathan force crap-theory about commandos storming the Sim-country and terminating the leaders. Then the Sim-people lay down their arms and do as they are told to do.
Then the Leviathan force leaves that particular Sim-country and goes to commit Grand Theft Crude Oil somewhere else.

The Systems Administration geek-accountants move in after the hostile takeover and proved to run the Sim-country like a corporation. They pay themselves huge salaries and drain the coffers just like they do in real-life Wall Street whose Cantor Fitzgerald OverlordSlaveMasterWannabees drafted this crap in the first place.

Barnett and his Cantor Fitzgerald Pentagon crowd are using the young men of America as their GoonSquadHitMen. And once hired, they are a Bush Family Expendable Employee for the rest of their short, brutal and bullet-ridden lives.

The few bases will probably be only be used as personnel offices for this endeavor and since most of the soldiers will be OUTSIDE the US, they need to have bases OUTSIDE the US.

Rumsfeld Seals The Deal On Military Bases To Launch Attack On Iran
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1410913

Bulgaria to host three US military bases: minister
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1471767

there is no need for State of the Art medical care for expendable soldiers in the Klingon Empire

Good Lord!

supposedly Walter Reed will be "moved" to the "Bethesda Naval Hospital" and it will be really high tech, but if they're doing this to save money, I would not bet on it, and Walter Reed is overextended as it is, if they merge 2 hospitals, they will be asked to carry the current load with half the staff. Of course since I am not Republican I can't say that the soldiers will get the same amount of care but it will be "largely invisible." Just like Karl Rove said about the grassroots movement to re-elect Bush in Ohio.

according to this morning's Gazette. They are happy as hell. Expected revenues for the locals and state are to increase by $20.1 million and annual salaries are expected to be an additional $309 million for the Colorado Springs area...Since Colorado was swinging toward the blue, this may indeed swing the state back to the red.

upcoming relocation to Denver?
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10423

I guess you mean that they may qualify for another rep. But that won't happen for some time as we fought back against an early redistricting in Colorado and won.

I do agree about the increased revenue for the area. It lost revenues when the soldiers at Carson were deployed overseas. Bringing in new soldiers will at least replenish what was lost and somewhat help the housing. Not that soldiers can afford big houses. It should help the rental vacancy rate at least.

Btw, Buckley Air Force Base was almost closed before 9/11. But after 9/11 they decided to keep it open since it's main function is to refuel and service fighter jets and also Air Force 1 lands there on visits. But mostly they kept it open after 9/11 anticipating military action.

Buckley and Fort Carson are the only bases we have left. Fitzsimmons VA hospital is gone and another base was closed years ago.

and will influence state races as well as national races.

The Springs already has a reputation for being a hotbed of red voting. Focus on the Family is just north of the Springs, right next to the Air Force Academy. And many, not just DUers, think they're wacko. Coloradoans are not all that thrilled to be associated with such extreme thinking.

Denver, on the other hand, is and will no doubt remain blue. Where we live just west of Denver is turning more blue as time goes by. And our state legislature is now a Dem majority. Progressives are gaining a foothold here. So, transferring a few thousand soldiers here for temporary training until they ship out again overseas won't make the dent. Those soldiers can't stay here permanently given how Iraq and now Afghanistan is going downhill on skates. Their deployment overseas will only serve as a glaring reminder of how this administration is pushing us all over a cliff.

I have to keep optimistic about the progress that has been made here. We can't sit back, though. We'll be a Rove target for our success. The fact that the CIA is moving it's domestic division here makes my skin crawl with goosebumps. Since I live 15 blocks from the Federal Center, I'm terribly frightened. Basing the domestic division anywhere in the Denver area, smack in the center of the country, is horrifying. I'm way more concerned about that than this issue we're discussing.

Btw, here's an eye opener. A youngish neighbor across the street from us came to visit and we discussed the last election. He voted for * in 2000 but voted Libertarian in 2004. Couldn't bring himself to vote for Kerry so went worse with the Libs. We got to talking about the Patriot Act and how it's eroded our civil liberties and he agreed. He said regarding the deaths on 9/11 - "It wasn't THAT bad to cause this erosion of our liberties!". So, we have a Dem majority in our state house and some * supporters are short circuiting. I think we're moving in a good direction.

Hope this sheds some light on what's happening here. My perspective comes from living here since 1976.

Pure politics, this has very little to do with military capability or saving money.

since there will now be negotiations that will result in about 15% of the bases on the list not being closed, will Lieberman be targeted to choose between keeping CT's base or bases and voting with the Repukes on the Nuclear Option or Bolton or some other critical vote?

now they are working on the congress right to vote, soon Bush will be
dismantling the Congress, since it is no longer necessary, another
cost saving.

The majority of major cities are in blue state. The vast majority, in fact. If a terrorist is going to attack inside the United States, I hate to say it being in a major city myself but they're going to hit a big city - the NYs, the Chicagos, the LAs. Closing military bases in blue states means moving resources away from major population centers, and increasing vulnerability to a terrorist attack. This now becomes an issue of National Security, and will lead to the Republicans losing the political edge in that issue.

(in my humble opinion). The Pentagon is closing the bases because it needs to conserve money. US troops are being pulled out of South Korea. There is a huge upheaval going on in Washington. What's it all about?

They are going to focus all their energies on Iraq and possibly Iran. They feel they have no option because Iraq is slipping into a civil war and it's only going to get worse from here on out. They're going to send in maybe 400,000 troops in order to pacify the country, like General Shinseki said a long time ago.

Their main focus, their ONLY FOCUS is on the oil. They will sacrifice every last troop for this quest, every last dollar in the public coffer in order to make this happen.

Defeat or capitulation is not an option. They will sacrifice everything for it. Let's wait and see.

insinuated that the bases closing here in Oregon are payback for pulling out of the Terrorism task force. (she thinks it was a bad idea :eyes:

I got snarky and said maybe I should look it up and see if there is a correlation between the 200 or so municipalities who have ruled against the Patriot act and the Task force.

She got real quiet! lol

since we'll only have a net loss of 37 military jobs, but 3,500 civilian jobs will be lost when Monmouth closes.

Very few of those civilians are going to be leaving.

"The installation contributes $3 billion to the local and state economies; its closing would put about 6,000 people out of work, deal a blow to area businesses and close the book on a base that's been part of the community since 1917."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=757043&page=1


It sounds more like it to me. About 5000 civilian jobs plus contractors.

I think the government numbers are lowballed.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/050513_Base_CLosings.pdf

The actual civilian job losses are 4,652, but the gains from Picatinny and a few others mean a total state civilan loss of 3,713. These numbers won't be that exact when it's all over, but they're close.

This has, as you might imagine, been covered quite heavily locally here in Joisey. Estimates of the total job loss vary since some businesses do contract with the Fort or feed off of it by selling everything from taxi service to lunch, but many have found their Fort business declining over the years.

Monmouth has been on the chopping block for years, and it was assumed it would be closed years ago when the Signal and Chaplain schools were moved out. It was saved in the past, but this time it looks like it's all over.

In the not-so-long run, Monmouth is on some prime real estate in one of the hottest and wealthiest areas of New Jerseey and doesn't have some of the toxic problems of other bases. There's a good chance the Pentagon will just give it to the state or county and whatever goes in there might be more productive than the Night Vision Lab or the procurement services in there now.

:nuke:

states? Bet it would be interesting.

TX showed a slight drop but most of the prison population decreases occurred in blue state. I'm checking for later data. Also, remember TX handled its political agenda with redistricting.

http://www.prisonactivist.org/pipermail/prisonact-list/2003-April/007004.html

populations next.

http://www.prisonpolicy.org/atlas/index.shtml

Ya think those closed bases are really closed bases? First, the "consolidated" bases are in mostly RED areas and with I wouldn't be surprised if this list was a "Let's Make A Deal" deal from the outset...money already changing hands on just this initial list, with more big payoffs to come.

There's the massive outsourcing to companies like Haliburton and others that is this regime's answer to our "stop gap" military needs...their own mercenary force that could easily be turned into their own army. No one mentions or thinks about this.

Then, there's what's going to happen with those closed bases. Some will be ideal places for oil refineries and large plants and factories that will be built by shaking down the local governments...no taxes paid for decades, and tons of money being made on the sales and leases of this land by Repugnican contributors.

Those stuck in those small towns that with closing may get lucky to have some big smokestacks, toxins and maybe a job. Others will spend years with a parade of smaller companies that will use the tax free status for as long as it lasts then moves along or out of the country.

50 years ago, the military was the government's hiding place for money and favors, now the stakes are far bigger in private corporations and this regime is going to raid the military like it's plundered the rest of this government...and those who paid to play get the spoils.

research on this point.

... so that if and when we pass a proposition to secede, that they will have some power here to keep us from following through on it. That's probably why the California bases weren't hit that hard.

especially in NorCal - only Travis AFB and a lot of good they would be if we locals get annoyed...Alameda, Mare Island and the Presidio are already closed...nothing else of note north of SF

...and all the Medocino/Humboldt Co. pot growers probably have a stash of SAMs hiding somewhere...or at least that was the old joke when they were trying to spray the fields...