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Does anyone actually think we will win the filibuster fight?

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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:00 AM
Original message
Does anyone actually think we will win the filibuster fight?
Does anyone seriously believe that six Republican senators will cross party lines?

We couldn't even get one Republican to vote no on Bolton even after Voinovich called him the poster boy of what a diplomat should not be.

Any Republican who votes against Frist on this, with the possible exception of McCain, is dead meat.
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evlbstrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. Let them do it.
It's political poison, one more arrow in the quiver for us.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. More Like an Arrow Through the Heart for Us
What chance do we have of coming back when the Fundies
gain control the Supreme Court for the next several decades?
How can we ever win an election when they control the entire
electoral process, and every court where we can seek redress?
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evlbstrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I'm really hoping against hope that the Dems can protect the
filibuster. You're right about the courts. But we don't have the press on our side. The only reason I could hear any of the hearings was streaming from C-SPAN.
So, if the Republican Party is seen for the overreaching arrogant greedy fucks that they are, and that depends entirely on the press getting it out there, they will lose control of government. The poll numbers are showing that shift now.
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. A snowball has a better chance in hell...
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Beacho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. It's a 'win' either way
Either these bastards don't have the balls to pull the trigger or they have crossed the Rubicon.


I like those choices
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. What's To Like About The Death of the Republic & Enthroning of the BFEE?
Edited on Fri May-20-05 12:10 AM by AndyTiedye
After the Rubicon was crossed, it was almost 2 millenia before
Rome saw democracy again.

Julius Caesar destroyed the Roman Republic, claiming it was corrupt,
and replaced it with an empire that quickly became far more so,
because the Roman emperor and his court were not accountable to anyone.
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europegirl4jfk Donating Member (734 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. Julius Caesar
I saw Shakespeare's Julius Caesar recently at the London Barbican theatre. They had transfered the play in our modern world and all the soldiers wore American uniforms. It was very shocking to see the parallel to the actual situation in the US. History always repeats itself.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Ah, but Caesar cam to a very bad end.
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. (raises hand)

Yep, I do.

It will probably include a bunch of names that aren't too familiar on DU.
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. OK. So who are your six?
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Here's one -- Sen. Warner, R, VA
His entire life is built around being a distinguished Senator, entirely. It's who the guy is, wants to be. He knows very well that this is a crock. He's also bullet-proof, he'll never lose in VA as long as he runs. He stopped Ollie North from getting elected by publicly opposing and campaigning against him. He'll do it just to look distinguished and put himself down in the history books.

Well, that's one. I can't think of any more.
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. no firm idea

I'm not sure Frist really gets to the point of rolling out the thing he intends to. The smarter place for the Republicans to vote is on the cloture vote that precedes it, i.e. they join to the 'filibuster' vote itself. Which should be enough to warn Frist off.

The list of folks crossing over on the FMA vote, which got to 56 against, last summer is pretty much where to look. Snowe, Collins, Sununu, Gregg, Jeffords, Chaffee, Warner, L. Graham, Hagel, Coleman, Grassley, Voinovich, McCain, Gord Smith, Murkowski.
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Internut Donating Member (436 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
6. "We couldn't even get one Republican to vote no on Bolton"
I understand that several Republicans are going to vote "no" on Bolton. Probably not enough to get him below 50 votes though.
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Welcome to DU
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Vyan Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
8. One Repulican...
Did vote against Bolton on the Foreign Relations Commitee - Voinovich did. Plus there's still a possiblity that Chuck Hagel might turn against.

The real point though is this - if Republican successfully pull the trigger, Democrats get to paint them as out-of-control demogogues all during the 2006 elections. Repubs can complain that Dems forced them to do it, but it's kinda crying because Billy "made you" knock over the cookie jar while you were stealing from it. (Just what were you DOING there in the first place?)

All Dems have to do is frame the argument common sense terms - we fought to protect you, because they're out of control.

Vyan
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Voinovich voted with the Republicans
Edited on Fri May-20-05 12:12 AM by quaoar
After they agreed to refer the nomination to the full Senate without a recommendation. If he had voted no it would have killed the nomination.

BTW, welcome to DU.
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dhuss Donating Member (161 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
23. He voted for him before he's going to vote against him...
D.H.
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renaissanceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. Yup, I think you're right on the money
with this one. In the end, we'll win back both houses in the next couple of elections. People won't forget this. And FINALLY, the Dems are ALL on message: "The Republicans are power hungry. This isn't about an up or down vote. This is about respect for checks and balances, and respecting the minority."


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues/472476
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
12. It's ok. They already have shot themselves in the foot.
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
16. it would do this country a lot of good if six republican senators would
cross party lines and vote to keep the filibuster.

i don't believe they would do it...but it would do this country a world of good if they did--and it would show the marabunta bushies that there are some honorable things that people--even republicans, still value.


RIP to time honored senate tradition.
:cry:
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suigeneris Donating Member (471 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
17. This must be aken seriously. Here is who they'll propose for SCOTUS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1486554&mesg_id=1486554
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
18. If the Democrats can't win, they should go down fighting.
I think there's a chance that some moderate Republicans will turn. It;s not a big chance, mind you and there's lots of arm twisting going on but where there's life there's hope.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I totally agree..
... the fact is, IMHO, the Republicans have the cards here. They can 'probably' bully enough senators to stick to the party line to get this travesty of fairness done.

But, I doubt that even the most connected senate insiders really know everyone's vote. So we have to assume that it is worth a fight.

I have to admit tho, when I hear stuff like "we'll let you have 5 of the seven" - those sound like typical capitulation words to me, not fighting words.

Even if the Dems "make a deal", what's to prevent the Repugs from starting over when the next SC appointment comes up? Their word? Don't make me laugh.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. NO DEAL NO DEAL NO DEAL
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SouthernDem2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
21. I still say they are going to make a deal.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
25. No Deals. I want the Repukes on record as changing the rule
They will change the rule if no deal is made. They have the power and aren't afraid to use it. They are on top and want to stay on top. Some of us are gullible to think that we can save the filibuster until the Supreme Court nominee. The repukes will then change the rule. So much for your compromise. You cant deal with the Devil. If the Dem's allow P. Owen, then she is apt to be the next nominee to the Supreme Court. I suppose the Dem's will make another deal, they won't filibuster if they get to keep their parking spots.
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AussieDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
27. No - Republicans will in the end fall into line
They'll get their judges up as intended - they'll have passed the point of no return. The Repugs will then have to stay in power forever, because they'll fear what will happen when they go into the minority and have the same thing shoved down their throats.

But the "moderate" Repugs won't think of that........
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
28. dunno but
i think that this is an issue taht bubba understands. changing the rules in the middle of the game, a game you are clearly winning, is something that the most uninformed voter will get. there is no spinning this.
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DemBeans Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
29. No, I don't think we'll win it
Not only will Republican senators be crossing Frist, they'll be crossing the White House, where this whole scam was cooked up. You know they're being threatened in the most unseemly fashion possible right now.

The only thing they could do to vote against this thuggery is to cross the aisle - not a likely outcome (although any who do that would become instant heroes).
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