Conyers would have enough MEMO signatures if Dean or Kerry would help him.

Why cant Dean and Kerry help their fellow Democrat, John Conyers, by soliciting folks in their e-mail data bases to sign the petition?

I get e-mails from Kerry & Dean all the time- so why are they ignoring this issue that is so important to us and their fellow DEM lawmaker, John Conyers?

Or at the least, why cant top, household name DEMs like Kerry, Reid, Hillary, Obama or Dean just go on TV and talk about the memo?

Conyers and the online community is fighting the good fight- but it would be nice if our "Generals" at the top would have the courage to weigh in.

Contact Kerry here:
http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/contact/office.html

Contact the DNC here:
http://www.democrats.org/contact /

Cowardice.

it has no power here.

It's speculative, but probable.

I say cowardice because it is the only reason I can think of. I beleive that they would love to have Bush answer for his crimes, and they obviously have resources and access to mainstream media figures, so the only thing stopping them is fear.

The base that busted their asses for them last year, BTW.

One of them is trying to get Dems elected while the other is trying to get health care for children and stop Bolton and get Dems elected as well, among other things.

I don't feel "completely ignored." Not talking about one issue is not "completely ignoring their base."

And it is cositng us BILLIONS of dollars- money that could be used for Healthcare, etc.

BILLIONS spent because we let Bush get away with lying. It's time to correct that mistake.

This WILL help DEMs get elected if played the right way. This memo thing could destroy GOP political & moral capital for the next couple of election cycles. It's about the lies.

Also, all these other issues you mention will take a back seat as soon as Bush starts a new fake war- we need to prevent that.

I dont feel completey ignored either- just on the most important issue- the war based on lies.

If you dont think DEMS should talk about why we are at war, fine- I think they should- the fact that we are in a war based on fraud & lies IS the most important issue of my lifetime.

Not to mention that we won't be impeaching anybody unless we can get more Dem butts into some Congressional seats.

And that won't be accomplished by calling out two of the people who are working on grassroots organizing and making them seem like failures when they are not.

This is what's important to you. To others, it's the fact that they haven't worked in two years. To still others, it's that they're sick and have no health care.

This issues will not become secondary when the new fake war emerges. And I'm not sure how exposing the memo will prevent that next war either. Only the dimmest of the dim (ie Freepers) still think we had a reason to go to war this last time. It will be that much more difficult to do again, as we ALL have our eyes open.

Why not talk about "the memo" AND Bolton together- it is the exact same subject. Somthing is fishy- they wont even MENTION it.

And I hope you are right about the issues not taking a back seat to everyone talking about defense and how patriotic they are. I saw what happened last time.

Talking about the memo could get just a few more of those "swing voters" (or whatever we want to call them) who did support the last war from supporting another one. We wont know until we try. Ignoring it certainly wont get anyone on our side.

And I'm not convinced that it will be difficult for BUsh/meida to drum up a new fake war- DEMS are afraid to talk about the fake evidence from THIS war- what makes us think they will talk about new fake evidence? That is why we need to hold their feet to the fire now- not later.

Why not more then one thing at a time? Stop bolton and bush, bush is a worse threat then bolton I would think.

and are we completely sure the memo/minutes are the smoking gun we think they are. If they were classified documents, I'd feel more like we had something.

As it is, the memo tells us what we already knew. We were misled. No kiddin'.

I have posted a ton of threads on things bush is doing that no one is stopping him on (with few, if any, replies). take a look at www.govexec.com and other such sites (along with many government sites). He is a doing a lot of things without too much interference.

Bolton is a focal point which moves the eyes away from all the other things going on. And bush too is sometimes a focal point while other government officials are sliding by.

It's a mound of snakes and we need to pull out the big snake and we need all the help we can get. Kerry did not like bush too well, spoke well against him - and now he has a chance to act on that.

This does not mean I think Kerry is wrong or slacking on all things, I have no qualms with positive threads that highlight his work and garner our assistance. But sometimes it does not hurt to tell our elected officials, whom we pay, that they are slacking on some things. This is one of them.

If he thinks it is wrong or maybe doubts the authenticity of it, et al, hopefully he will take a few minutes from his busy day to state as much (and if has, I missed it).

I see him as a necessary cog in the plan for the next war. They need him in the UN so that he can fuck up relations so badly they'll have another excuse to go in somewhere without the UN again.

That's what I think anyway. So if Bush wants him and Cheney thinks he's adorable, then we must fight him. I see stopping Bolton as part of stopping Bush and putting a monkey wrench in the plan for the next war.

He is not a diversion - but I don't see why dem leaders cannot focus on more then one thing at a time. In fact, to me, it might look better to come out swinging on all fronts as best we can - the war, the memo, bolton, legislation, et al and just start hammering the bastards on all fronts all the time.

But again, I am not meaning to slam kerry in general (or dean or others) I just want them to do the best job they can and when they don't we call em on it, like we do bush on the job he does. They all work for us and we need to keep their feet to the fire.

Kerry, bush, dean, rove, and on down the line we pay their salary and should review their job on a regular basis and prod them in the right direction. Some won't listen to us at all (obviously bush and his goonies) others are on 'our side' and hopefully they will listen (which means, I would say, we need to tell them what we feel since they don't already know and don't jump on things like we would).

but wasn't that one of the criticisms of the campaign, that Kerry and the party couldn't focus on one issue? That we were all over the place? I see Dean focusing on organizing. I'm not sure I want to see the scatter gun approach from him. I want him to build strong bones for the party. I'm not sure he can do that and also be the point man for stuff like the memo.

Just for starters?

One e-mail that spreads the word about this.

Of course I'd love for him to take 45 seconds or so and mention it on TV too- but just one e-mail, written by a staffer- they have time for that, right?

I would love to see Bush people on TV splitting those hairs.

Let team Bush go on TV and try to say the Iraq war is old news- it wont fly.

That we were misled into the war is old news. No duh. Kerry repeated it all during the campaign. We were misled. By Bush. So why would Bush be going around saying "We were misled?" He's the one who did the misleading.

His only response was basically "You had the same info that I had."

Now Kerry, Dean, etc can say- "Not true, We've never seen the UK memo before. We never would have gone along if we knew about that..."

It's time to make Bush and the GOP make excuses and split hairs instead of you doing it.

leaked in an attempt to embarrass Blair before the UK elections.

If a summary by the director of UK intelligence regarding a meeting detailing US intentions toward Iraq, specifically including military intervention, isn't classified...not sure what would be.

Unless you're suggesting that the documents are not authentic.

ps nobody's kidding US about being misled...it's those folks we're hoping will vote with us next time that still don't know they've been misled. This is concrete evidence, not supposition or conjecture.

It is a mistake for Kerry and Dean to leave Conyers twisting on this. Maybe a lesser lightning rod, like Obama, could pull the equivalent of a Norm Coleman/UN oil-for-food thing, raise their profile in going after these documents. Obama especially good choice since he doesn't have any prior votes supporting war in Iraq.

There was little or nothing that was new in the memo. The Woodward book showed that they talked about war with Iraq even before 911 - which is worse than the British memo. Remember that the infamous IWR was voted on after the Bush administration started building up forces in the Gulf in the summer of 2002. It was Democratic Senators who insisted that it was not appropriate for the US to attack Iraq unilaterally and insisted that Bush go to both Congress and the UN. Bush claimed the vote, shortly after 911 that authorized the war on terror allowed Bush to attack terrorists anywhere and insisted they could attack because of violations of UN resolutions. All of this was common knowledge at the time of the memo - Bush was clearly intent on going to war. All the Democratic resistance did was delay the war maybe 4 to 6 months. However, if sanity would have prevailed, once the inspectors were let in and allowed good freedom of movement, Bush could have insured Iraq was clean, relaxed the sanctions, and claimed a very major victory.

Before the election, there was much proof that the Bush administration lied to take us to war. Kerry did argue that Bush misled us into war, but well over half the Bush voters believed that Iraq was involved with 911, even though Bush was forced in the debates to admit that that wasn't true.The memo is not going to persuade these people when they didn't change their opinion even when Bush grudgingly admitted the truth, especially as the Democrats don't control the media or any branch of government.

As part of the Bolton hearings, Kerry, Biden, Dodd, and many other Democrats have been talking about the distortion of information on Iraq (and other countries) by Bolton and others in the Bush administration. In this way they are using their Senate positions to obtain detailed information about how the Bushies slanted the information that went to Powell. They have all made very strong speeches, that along with other issues, have raised the fact that intelligence was intentionally distorted. Here they are raising the same issue, with stronger specific information - actual analysts being intimidated when they insisted on being honest.

So, I don't think these Senators are avoiding the issue, they are just handling it differently.

Your post is incendiary. Oh well, let me be the first to say Goodbye! Until you are in their shoes, I guess you can't really speak for them. See ya!

...and mention the memo.

How is that "incendiary."

Goodbye? I've been at DU for 3 years and a DEM volunteer & employee for that long too. Who made you gate-keeper???

I think they are both closer to Bush than to Conyers.

dean, i don't know why

It's so easy to throw stones....I'm interested in facilitating Conyers mission. Emails with suggestions to the higher ups would be a positive.

Thats one....Do I hear a second suggestion?

:bounce:

NGU.

It's frustrating that Kerry & Dean wont back us up as of yet, but there is no need to slam me for talking about it.

Dr Fate is not the problem- I'm just asking that folks contact Kerry & Dean once again to help us with our movement.

We helped them build that database of names- so why cant they use it for an issue that we care about?

Well EXCUUUUSE ME for making suggestions and asking questions!!!!

Or he wouldn't have called out Dean and Kerry specifically as if the weight of the world was on their shoulders alone.

I mean you could just as easily say why isn't Dennis Kucinich helping. Or Edwards. Or Clark. Or Hillary. Or Boxer.

"He" mentioned Dean & Kerry in this thread specifically because "he" knows that they have access to millions of e-mails that "he" helped them compile when "he" did GOTV last year.

"He" does mention all those other DEMs who hold an office or a position. Specifically Hillary- who was mentioned in the original post.

"He" is not concerned with the 2008 primaries pissing contest- "he" wants EVERYONE speaking up.

"He" has already explained that we need the high-profile DEMS who can get on TV to do this- Kusinich & Boxer wont cut it. Plus they cant get on MTP for a whole hour.

"He" is tired of excuses and being accused of DEM bashing when "he" is not the problem.

Another chance to add to my "Ignore" list. :eyes:

and intelligent too-unlike yourself .

..otherwise, piss off.

Why don't WE call and tell them what the hell we expect fer cripes sakes!? ORGANIZE, ORGANIZE, ORGANIZE.

I tire of defeatist threads that question why our reps don't do X, Y, Z when WE DON'T ASK THEM TOO KWIM? I think you've got a great point, but this is OUR democracy TOO, and WE have a voice. Let's frickin use it.

Contact Kerry here:
http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/contact/office.html

Contact the DNC here:
http://www.democrats.org/contact/

I'd edit your thread to ask for a plea to contact Dean/Kerry and ask DU-ers to put their money where their mouth is.

Feel free to copy this text into a quick email:

I URGE YOU TO PUBLICLY SUPPORT JOHN CONYERS CALL FOR AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE DOWNING STREET MEMO.

:hi:

BTW, I recommended your thread. Thanks for raising this issue.

Now, back to my new life as a lurker.

I will miss you and your insight.
And I took your advice and gave Mr. Kerry and the DNC a polite piece of my mind; you are our voice; why can't we hear you?

n/t

I so dearly love.......:applause: :patriot: :yourock:

It doesn't seem like an unreasonable request to me.

Contact Kerry here:
http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/contact/office.html

Contact the DNC here:
http://www.democrats.org/contact /

;-)

Dear John Kerry,

As a loyal supporter, and someone who worked diligently on your campaign, I've been impressed by the way you have kept your email list going and how you've continued to rally your supporters into action - sometimes when the bill or action request isn't even your own (as was the case with your recent request to help Senator Kennedy).

My reason for addressing you today is to help investigate a fraud committed against the members of congress and the American People. Congressman John Conyers is circulating a petition to collect 100,000 signatures to enact an investigation of the Downing Street memo revelations, and whether the Bush Administration is guilty of "fixing" the intelligence reports that- as a Senator - influenced your decision upon to commit our troops to the Iraq war. It is one thing for me to be upset as citizen by what the Downing Street Memo uncovers, but I can imagine that you - having trusted the pre-war intelligence and authorized the act of sending 1600+ American soldiers to their death - would be doubly angered by the egregious acts of fraud committed by the Bush Administration if the facts of this document are proven legitimate. Every American deserves to know the truth about this document. Every American deserves to know if they were deceived - especially those whose lives have been forever changed by the loss or injury of a serviceman.

Senator Kerry, I ask you to throw your support behind Congressman Conyers and help him gather the needed signatures by using your email list. It has been highly effective for you in the past, and with your help, it can be an effective tool for speaking truth to power once again.

Thank you,

n/t

:yourock:

But don't hold your breath. I live in his state and have never received more than a form letter.

I've wrote to him a couple of times and never heard a response. But, if he ends up helping out Conyers, that will be response enough for me.

"IF" being the operative word here.

:thumbsup:

Why do you just blame Kerry, Dean, Obama and Clinton? What about Joe Liberman (heh)? Joe Biden? Ted Kennedy? Barabra Boxer? Why doesn't Conyers go on tv himself? It seems to me like a bash fest. Has Conyers even tried any of these people or is he waiting for them to come to him? This is not a bash Conyers ordeal (love the guy) but just some fair question's.

n/t

Kennedy- sure- I would love for him to help too. I've included his name on my "lists" before.

If it is Conyers or Boxer alone, it is easily written off as "Liberal Micheal Moore stuff"- like when they spoke up against voting fraud and all the top DEMS ignored them that time too.

Conyers cant get an hour long appearance on MTP like Dean did or like Kerry, etc could. I'm sure he would love to do it.

But I agree with you basic point- the MORE DEMS who speak up, the better- but without the top, famous, well-known DEMs, it looks like a fringe movement and can be easiliy ignored.

according to the RW, she's our frontrunner and the biggest name we got.

But then again, Bubba's been hangin' around with the Bush Co. so maybe not.

You get the idea- I'm talking about the quotable DEMs, like Hillary, Kerry,Dean Obama, etc.

In fact, I mentioned her in the original post.

for us.

If someone is not doing their job, we call em on it. Simple as that. People can spend all day bitching about what a dipshit bush is when he fucks up, we need to be consistent and call our folks out when they do.

I don't want to be like the right and give a pass to someone because of a letter after their name. These people have power, we give em money (their paychecks) they work for US. Damn right I will bitch at em when they are not doing their job.

paint Dean and Kerry? Kerry is "the most liberal" and Dean is the "most angry." Please! Like they'd be taken seriously? LOL!

All these excuses make my head spin.

The memo confirms the facts: NO WMDs.

Most Americans-even some who supported the war- are getting wise to the fact that the WMDs dont exist- I think lots of people would take the memo seriously.

Hope that helped!

:)

even several million signatures aren't going to make Bush or the GOP do anything. After all, more than 49 million people voted against them, and that doesn't faze them in the least.

So it's a publicity event, designed to get a little play with the minutes. All for the good, and I've signed an all. But I don't see the others putting themselves out there over signing it. I'm guessing they think there are better uses for their lists.

OTOH, talking about the minutes, over and over again? THAT they ought to be doing, no argument.

They would not have those lists if it were not for the hard work of the base over the past 2 years.

I can think of no better use for OUR lists than to use them to spread information and action alerts about the most important issue of our lifetime.

If they are too timid to talk about it on TV, then they could at least help spread the word using OUR data base.

I'm saying the *signatures* aren't really going to amount to anything. There's nothing magic in 100,000. There's nothing that's actually going to move this administration to suddenly turn honest. The number is one Conyers and his staff came up with, I'm sure, thinking they could reach it and make some waves doing so. It's calculated. So I understand why another politician wouldn't make this the hill to die on, so to speak.

Now the *minutes* and all the implications of the same are VERY important. And I agreed that the leaders of our party ought to be flogging that issue until its quite public. And if a group of them did so together, they'd minimize the risk to any one of them. I don't know why they're not doing that. I wish they would.

But signing a petition? No, that in itself isn't really going to change a thing.

The idea is to get "the Memo" into the national echo chamber and get folks around the water cooler whispering phrases like "...the memo" and "...impeachment?" and "..lies?"

If Kerry or Dean went on TV and said "We helped Conyers get 100,000 signatures from folks who DEMAND answers..." it WOULD help.

If Kerry, Dean, Hillary, etc all got behind Conyers through various forums, this might happen.

So don't give me that excuse- Dean was on MTP for a whole hour and did not mention it. He was on Judy Woodruff a couple of days later.

Dean, Kerry, Hillary, Reid, Obama could get an interview or slot on a debate show anytime. They could write an op-Ed, or go on the Daily Show or on local news shows. This would goad Rightwingers into responding to the charges as well.

Hell- even when top DEMS are on Air America they refuse to talk about the memo.

"It's the media's fault that Dean wont talk about the memo" does not cut it.

Dean was a GUEST on the show. He couldn't bring up the topics unless they were brought up to him. Same for Kerry and the other democrats who go on these shows.

And besides, what would be wrong with slyly steering the debate to another topic?

"That reminds me of another closley related issue, Tim, one that hardly gets discussed these days: bla blah blah..."

You could do this easily on the debate shows as well.

It would take 2 minutes- DEMS have opportunities to steer the debate & have opinions on these shows.

DEMS need to get creative with what they have- stop making excuses.

Go, Dean! This is a Democratic Issue! The pukkkes are all crooked, they'll never hold Bush accountable for this mess. (There were still a few honest Republicans back in Nixon's day!)

Go Dean! The RW can't hate you more--stir up the base! That's what you're there for!

...but that does not mean he cant still be convinced to speak up-we need to keep begging him.

Write or call him and let him know that he should have spoken up on MTP- and that he can still talk about this.

Suggest that he use his database of e-mails to spread the word.

Like I said: Dean and the others were a GUEST on these shows. The host is the one who frames everything and Dean answers the question's. If the HOST of THEIR SHOW doesn't mention it it ISN'T Dean's fault.

And besides, there is no rule against steering the debate to a similar yet valid issue- it's a valid tactic and any high schooler can do it to his parents- surely Dean could do it to Timmy.

I say DEMS can be a litle more creative than just letting the host define the issues- but in this case, Tim actaully asked him about Iraq deception.

I am going to ask those who participate in the Kerry group and the Democrats forum to lend a hand.

Edited:

Kerry group - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=273x29365

Democratic party forum -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=296&topic_id=4670&mesg_id=4670

:kick::kick::kick:

:kick:

he doesn't need anyones help to get signatures.

For instance, Dean had an entire hour on MTP where he could have mentioned it.

Conyers is not well known- we need the Top, well-known, quotable DEMS in this game.

He has been a Congressmen for more than 30 years. It's not like he woke up one morning and decided that "Hey, I am going to be a hero today, I am going to investigate election fraud or the Iraq war." He has been doing this all his political life. What are you going to do to get Kerry and Dean out there since the media will not cover them?

Ask the person behind you in the grocery line if they have heard of him. Bring him up around the water cooler at work.

Then ask if they have heard of Howard Dean, Kerry or Hillary or Obama.

My aunts & uncles in the red states dont know John Conyers- they know Kerry, Dean, Hillary and Obama.

Or do you not have the voice to do so? Give them his website. Tell them of his accomplishments. He was invovled in Nixon/Watergate. I think he can handle W.

It was a folksy example to get my point across. They would NOT have known about Conyers or plenty of other issue if I had not brought it up. It would be nice if they and others could see someone "on the TV" talking about it too.

I'm not the problem here- as much as folks want to make it seem that way.

That excuse wont cut it anymore.

but when they don't show up for the task, we have to continue pushing it our way.If we take to much time talking about Kerry, Dean not showing up, it slows down our routine. We are the media. We have to keep doing it our way ,and I must say, we are getting pretty damn good at getting the word out. Keep pushing...........

and is not productive. That's all I'm saying.

And I've been doing it for weeks now.

I'm also constantly reminding folks that top DEMS are not speaking out about this and that they should. WOW- how radical.

I'll keep on doing it.

Why do you need Kerry, Dean, Clinton and the rest of them to do it for him? He does have his own voice you know. This is a bash fest for you I think.

Now a Hillary, Dean, Kerry or Obama interivew,more folks will tune into that- more reporters will listen- and more of their soundbytes will show up in Red State news papers and newscasts.

Ask the dude behind you in the grocery line if he has heard of Conyers- then ask if he has heard of Kerry or Dean, or Hillary.
Makes sense, no?

THAT is why he cant get hour long interviews like Dean, Hillary, Kerry, etc can.

Nothing says failure like collecting a whole bunch of signatures and then not being able to muster the votes to bring it out of committee.

They could at least weigh in express their opinions, right?

I seem to remember some people getting egg on their faces over a bogus document last fall.

Another possibility is that they simply don't think that this is important. Could it be that the leaders of the party don't have the exact same priorities as some DUers? :shrug:

I would say that is not true.

The Iraq war is costing us BILLIONS of dollars and thousands of lives.

How is a war based on fraud & lies not important? How is the fact that this could be allowed to happen not one of THE most important issues???

Is the memo a fake? That seems to be the best excuse so far. Conyers and the 98 congressmen dont seem too worried about that- but who knows???

It would make one wonder if the bushies put it out there hoping the dems would bite and then smack them around with it.

Damn shame it has come to this - where we don't know who to trust and when and on what.

It would awfully Rovian of them.

It doesn't matter how many people say that what's in the memo is correct, if the memo itself turns out to be a fake, we're screwed... again.

Just a thought as to why, perhaps, the Dems are being gunshy. Not cowardly. Just cautious. Can you blame them? They're dealing with a guy who has bugged his own phones for fuck's sake.

But then too we need our own rovian tactics. If the big guns come out on it and it gets enough air time and press then many people will believe it (even if the letter is false, it will stick as true). Even if the details are off, the core ideals are within parameters of how those folks operate.

I like Kerry, he did well speaking against the vietnam war - he was bold and took a risk. What does he have to lose at this point? He does not need the job for the money, so it is hoped he will use it for making a difference - the same difference he once tried to make during another war.

In another way to, we want to see him lead. He does not need the presidency to do that. He has people here and now willing to mobilize and help him, we just need him (in his position) to lead the fight.

And I have no problems questioning him, he works for us, we pay him, and we should ask him and others as we see fit for answers on big issues like this. He may yet do well on it, but I don't feel bad for wondering what his plan is and why he has not represented us on this issue (or others).

I guess they were afraid of all the other evidence showing Bush was lying about one thing or another was fake too. That would explain a lot of the free passes the DEM "strategists" gave him over the past 3 election cycles.

If they have the skinny that this is fake, they better warn Conyers.

Seems like the memo confirms the facts-but the "Rather" scenario has occurred to me. Could be.

would you talk about one of their family problems infront of them? Or would you wait until someone asked you about it? Dean was a guest on MTP. He wasn't running the show. If he wants to be back on the show he has to show some respect for Russert even if they don't like each other. There are other issues too that need addressing. What difference do you think it'd make with a republican control in ALL BRANCHES of government? So, what? Dean, Kerry, Reid or Clinton go on these shows and talks about the memo. So what. Do you think it'd change any republican voters minds in the Senate and Congress? LOL!

And its not about changing minds in Congress- it's about changing the minds of people who are asking "Where are the WMDs that I supported the war for?"

It makes a difference b/c it could weaken GOP political/moral capital for the midterms.

Other issues can be discussed-and they are-but it would have taken him a few minutes out of that hour to specifically bring it up- especially since he was asked.

I agree wholeheartedly with Freddie Stubbs.:pals:

Anthrax.

"NOW what's Dean screaming about?"

5 more:
"Oh, is Kerry still around?"

Twice that I heard anyway.. Hopefully it was on other media sources I didn't catch..

Someone called in the Ed Schultz show today telling people how they could locate the petition and sign it.. :thumbsup:

And on the segement of CNN Inside Politics where they discuss the hottest blogs of the day, they also provided the link to the petition.. :thumbsup:

So see? You don't need Kerry, Dean or Reid. You can do it yourself and write these places.

...didn't you get the memo?

Kerry will deal with that when it comes to the Senate. Did you see this?

http://www.kerrysupport.com/media/051905III.wmv
(Windows Media)

He expresses his opinions on other issues- he can talk about this too.

I'm listening to the speech you linked now- he sounds great.

What good do you think it'd do for Kerry and the rest to talk about it? It won't do shit until we can get back most of the Congress and Senate.

We have mid-terms coming up- this scandal could do damage to Bush's political & moral capital. Lots of sswing voters are asking themsleves about this war- and they KNOW there are no WMDs.

Why speak out about ANY issue if we dont control anything???

Telling the truth about Bush is the RIGHT thing to do, no matter how you look at it.

I don't think he has the swing voters anymore. I believe someone said the numbers look like he's whittled down to his hardcore base.

Which is in the works unless we nip this. In my opinion.

They will go right back under his wing- in a heart-beat.

:eyes:

If you feel like actaully discussing the topic, you can tell us why Kerry & Dean can't or should not use their e-mail data base to help us???

OR you can attack me, I guess- it seems to be what folks do when the excuses run thin.

Rather than attacking the post, show us what Dean, the presumptive nominee and any other "leader" has done. Except John Conyers, not one, to my knowledge, has advanced his or her support.

"Where's Kerry and Dean" followed by "I'm not singling them out" followed by "Where's Kerry and Dean," on the other hand, is.

I singled out Dean & Kerry specifically because they have access to the e-mail data base that WE gathered for them- as I already explained in the original post and in a specific response to you.

I specifically said I WAS singling them out for that reason.

If you are going to attack me personaly, you could at least be accurate.

Your desperate excuses wont fly, so now you make shit up to try & discredit me- nice.

And I would love for ALL the top, high-profile DEMS to get together and make an issue of this. We need big names, famous names.

I hope it helps. I won't stop trying.

less literally. I took it as where is the dem leadership (by inference meaning Dean and Kerry).

Let's get by the diversion and address the over-reaching question: WHERE'S THE LEADERSHIP ON THE DOWNING STREET MINUTES? Please show me one press release or public statement.

Below are some of his upcoming engagements.

If the DLC and Clintons hadn't let the Dem Party atrophy, Dean could be out on the talk show circuit talking about the Memo, but you know some Democrats are only for themselves, not for other Democrats or the Dem Party as a whole. Dean is for the Dem Party.


In Atlanta June 2 in the evening. I think that is the day he speaks at the Take Back America breakfast in DC as well.

Thursday, June 2, 6:00 p.m. - Governor Howard Dean in Atlanta
Please join Governor Howard Dean, the new Chairman of the Democratic National Committee for a reception on Thursday, June 2, 2005 from 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. at the club eleven50, 1150B Peachtree Road. Tickets are $50 each. For more information or to RSVP, please contact Alix Dejean at (202) 863-7164 or dejeana@dnc.org. You can also register online at:

https://www.democrats.org/support/atlanta.html?dsc=FNET192
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Annual Rainbow Push conference June 11-16

http://news.baou.com/main.php?action=recent&rid=20233

Special sessions focusing on the Voting Rights Act and the progressive democratic agenda will take place at RP headquarters on June 11, 12. Sessions are free and will feature Howard Dean, Chair of the DNC, Congresspersons John Conyers, Stephanie Tubb Jones, Maxine Waters, Jesse Jackson, Jr., Senators Harry Reid and Barack Obama, and civil rights leaders Marc Morial and Julian Bond among others.

http://www.rainbowpush.org/conferences/ann...onference/2005/
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Howard Dean in Charleston, West Virginia, on Wednesday

http://www.wvgazette.com/section/News/Othe...News/2005052027

May 21, 2005
"Howard Dean to visit West Virginia on Wednesday

Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean will visit West Virginia Wednesday.

He will attend a rally/cookout at the state Democratic Party headquarters in Charleston, at the corner of Greenbrier Street and Kanawha Boulevard, starting at 11 a.m. He will be joined by Gov. Joe Manchin and other Democratic elected officials.
Recently Dean announced a $174,000 funding package for the West Virginia State Democratic Party to support its grass-roots organizing activities.
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Going back to KS June 3rd.
http://www.ksdp.org/?q=node/view/1151

Howard Dean to keynote National Federation of Democratic Women's Convention in KC
Submitted by fgorman on May 23, 2005 - 4:20pm. Headlines | Party News
The Kansas chapter of the National Federation of Democratic Women has announced DNC Chairman Howard Dean will be the keynote speaker at their Friday night banquet for their 2005 convention. The convention will be held June 2-5 at the Hilton Garden Inn in Kansas City.

The annual convention includes a number of speakers on women's interests and the Democratic National Committee, a series of workshops, meetings and a banquet. New national officers will also be elected.

The banquet with Chairman Dean begins at 7:00 pm on June 3 and tickets are available for a $100 contribution to the NFDW. Checks can be mailed to NFDW, PO Box 1044, Kansas City, KS 66110.
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Seattle June 5th
Paint the Town Blue fundraiser.

Paint the Town Blue...Seattle June 5
http://mcdermottforcongress.com/calendar.aspx

Sign up
https://www.democrats.org/support/seattle.html

When: Sunday, June 5, 2005
7–9 p.m.

Where: Premier Club, 1700 1st Ave S, Seattle

Please join the new chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Governor Howard Dean, to hear our party's latest plans for the future.

Cost:
Students: $35
General Admission: $50
Blue-Ribbon Circle: $250
Host: $1,000

Information: Visit the DNC site.
https://www.democrats.org/support/seattle.html
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Montana in July.
http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?i...ate/65-dean.inc

HELENA - Howard Dean, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee and a 2004 presidential candidate, will speak at the Montana Democratic Party's State Officers Convention in Great Falls on July 16.

Dean, a physician, is a former member of the Vermont House of Representatives and later served as lieutenant governor for five years and ascended to governor when Gov. Richard Snelling died in 1991. Dean was elected to a full two-year term as governor in 1992 and was re-elected four more times until leaving office in early 2003.

Dean is coming to Montana at the invitation of Montana Democratic Chairman Bob Ream, who asked him when the Democratic National Committee elected Dean. Ream said Dean is trying to visit all 50 states as national chairman.

"It's our officers' convention and the big one, and he's impressed with what we did in Montana," Ream said. "He thinks we're an example of what you can do in a red state with the right organization."

Dean has said he wants to focus on all 50 states, not just the 15-17 targeted states, and do it through precinct-level field organizing and putting out resources. Ream said the Montana Democratic Party is set to get money to hire a couple of new people.

Neil Ullman, field director for the state Party, said the tickets for the dinner at the Holiday Inn will be open to anyone, not just convention delegations. Details will be announced later."

...are out in full force tonight. It seems that some don't care if their 'leadership' condones and excuses lies and corruption as long as they can avoid controversy and stay 'electable'.

It's too bad that they attack the thread author instead of asking WHY their representatives are so silent about the treasonous act of lying a nation into war.

And now we have PROOF that Bush lied and hundreds of thousands died and the Democratic leadership still hides their heads in the sand.

After a while...silence becomes betrayal.

Same goes for avoiding controversy- we avoided plenty of controversy when we let Bush go to war based on these lies- that fiasco did NOT help elect any DEMS in '02 or '04 either.

But the "strategists" who lost the last 3 election cycles still seem to think this way.

I think they are wrong, and I think we need to be vocal about letting them know.

...when our representatives are simply not doing their jobs. This isn't just another scandal where a president gets a blowjob or is caught lying about things of little consequence. We're talking about HIGH CRIMES, putting Americans needlessly in harm's way and causing the unnecessary slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis.

There comes a time when we have to think and act as human beings and Americans instead of partisan Democrats. We MUST hold all politicians accountable. I want to know why Democrats are helping Bush cover up his criminal acts? I want to know why they're not taking turns in front of the cameras demanding hearings into this matter?

Bush MUST be held accountable for this high crime or no one will be able to stop him from attacking the next country on his hit list.

see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1820871

have you signed the petition?

www.johnconyers.com

I did

http://kennedy.senate.gov/contact.html
http://boxer.senate.gov/contact/webform.cfm

EDIT: Here's what I wrote

Dear Senator,
Please consider helping us gather signatures for Rep. John Conyers' petition calling for answers to issues raised by the Downing street memo. We have gathered over 50,000 so far, and need atleast 50,000 more.

Read what Fox News recently wrote about our campaign:

"This is a test of the left-wing blogosphere," said Jim Pinkerton, syndicated columnist and regular contributor to FOX News Watch, who pointed out that The Sunday Times article came out just before the British election and apparently had little effect on voters' decisions.

"IN MANY WAYS THAT MEMO MIGHT PROVE ALL OF THE ARGUMENTS THE CRITICS OF THE WAR HAVE MADE," he added. "But the bulk of Americans don't agree, or don't seem that alarmed, so it is a power test to see if they can drive it back on the agenda."

Downing Street Memo Mostly Ignored in U.S.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158228,00.html


For once, they are right! This is a test of whether or not we can speak to the media on our terms again. Please send a reminder to those on your email list to help us in this campaign by going to http://www.johnconyers.com/ and signing this petition. Or better yet, please ask a prominent democratic leader to talk about this smoking gun to the media. If you can, please go on CNN and talk about this.

We have helped you on John Bolton. We have helped you on the filibuster. I personally made a visit to my Senator's office, called my senators every day for months, wrote dozens of emails and LTTE's, all to defend your right to filibuster. Please consider returning the favor with just one mass email and/or one interview on your part.

In respect and support,
_________________

And that is a great letter oxbow!:hi: :woohoo:

:kick:

circulating it.

n/t

I'd love to see a press conference with all Democrats standing around Conyers about this. Pelosi announces, Conyers reads, Reid and Durbin provide encouragement and support and the website flashes the entire time.

*sigh* I can dream anyway.

:kick:

it wouldn't surprise me if he had trouble getting all the signatures that he wants. He is putting this out before a community of people that are probably more suspicious of Bush than any other and asking them to allow him to deliver their names and addresses to the man.

It's pretty easy to take a pass on that one.

If people let fear stop them, then they are owned by it. That's it in a nutshell. If they want to live that way, that's their business. I can't live like that, on principle alone. Nothing gets me moving faster than fear does. I walk right in it's ugly disgusting and nasty face. Screw it, I think to myself, I will not accept this intimidation. If it's a "black list/hit list" what ever the list is, then it's too late anyway. I can't go by the what ifs in my life, I'd be frozen in fear right here where I stand. Nope, nada, not me, cause that ain't a life worth living in my opinion.

I searched Kerry's Senate and campaign websites but could find nothing related to the Downing Street minutes, but I did find this entry by Ron on the supporter website called "Light up the darkness".

Would be nice for Kerry himself to give an endorsement of Bonifaz' efforts.

==============

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp

Downing Street Memo as Grounds for Impeachment
31 May 2005


Obviously there's not much chance between a Repubican controlled Congress and a media which has ignored the Downing Street Memo, but we wish afterdowningstreet.org luck in their goal of seeking the impeachment of George Bush. Clearly such a conspiracy to deceive the country into going to war unnecessarily, and distract from the more urgent threats from al Qaeda, Iran, and North Korea, was far more serious than anything Bill Clinton did. From their announcement:

A coalition of veterans' groups, peace groups, and political activist groups announced a campaign today to urge that the U.S. Congress launch a formal investigation into whether President Bush has committed impeachable offenses in connection with the Iraq war. The campaign focuses on evidence that recently emerged in a British memo containing minutes of a secret July 2002 meeting with British Prime Minister Tony Blair and his top national security officials.

John Bonifaz, a Boston attorney specializing in constitutional litigation, sent a memo to Congressman John Conyers of Michigan, the Ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, urging him to introduce a Resolution of Inquiry directing the House Judiciary Committee to launch a formal investigation into whether sufficient grounds exist for the House to impeach President Bush.

Bonifaz's memo, made available today at www.AfterDowningStreet.org, begins: "The recent release of the Downing Street Memo provides new and compelling evidence that the President of the United States has been actively engaged in a conspiracy to deceive and mislead the United States Congress and the American people about the basis for going to war against Iraq. If true, such conduct constitutes a High Crime under Article II, Section 4 of the United States Constitution."

In February and March 2003, John Bonifaz served as lead counsel for a coalition of United States soldiers, parents of U.S. soldiers, and Members of Congress (led by Representatives John Conyers, Jr. and Dennis Kucinich) in a federal lawsuit challenging President George W. Bush’s authority to wage war against Iraq absent a congressional declaration of war or equivalent action. Bonifaz is the author of Warrior-King: The Case for Impeaching George W. Bush (NationBooks-NY, 2004, foreword by Rep. John Conyers, Jr.), which chronicles that case and its meaning for the United States Constitution.

The organizations forming the AfterDowningStreet.org coalition include: Global Exchange, Gold Star Families for Peace, Democrats.com, Veterans for Peace, Code Pink, Progressive Democrats of America, and Democracy Rising. These organizations, beginning today, will be urging their members to contact their Representatives to urge support of a Resolution of Inquiry.

Ron Chusid @ 11:00 | comments(11) | Blog Entries

it is no surprise that this is being 'ignored'.

It starts with the PNAC. The complete at absolute FAILURE by anyone in leadership (be it candidates or other public figures) to call out publically this treasonous, murdering, criminal enterprise has resulted in the situation we now face.

Its all there, literally signed, sealed and delivered.