Can we be ABK?

Make no mistake I will vote and register people to vote for the Democrat reguardless, but of all the insider corperate candidates I will be the most unhappy with Kerry.

Edwards and Clark are tied for second place. From me they will get all of my support should they win the nomination.

Kerry is right down there with Sharpton and Lieberman.

ABB foremost. I know you guys hated ABD, and ya know what I did too. I hate divisive shit, I hated it when it was done to Dean, and I hate it now as its being done to Kerry.

nobody can make everyone happy. and kerry got the league of conservation voters endorsement which i'm happy about. it was VERY WELL DESERVED.

I was too about the LCV.

If they can have ABD, we can certainly have ABK.

Skull & Bones is a dangerous cult, not a Greek house!

but I wouldn't go to the voting booth for him.

If Kerry wins the nom I will not send money nor work for his campaign. He is too much of a Washington insider for me, and I am tired of holding my nose and voting.

I will send in an absentee ballot also.

and what do you know? ABK - hell, at least Lieberman doesn't flip flop - you know where he stands. Lieberman says "I didn't need Bush to tell me Saddam Hussein was a threat." Lieberman takes responsibility for his vote and stands behind it.

Kerry says "I didn't know Bush was going to fuck it up so bad." - in other words, it's not my fault, it's Bush's.

ABK

will be confirmed over the next four years.

But Kerry is the most uninspiring candidate, with the possible exception of Lieberman.

I find the man boring, unattractive, and the Skull and Bones stuff creeps me out.

i don't understand all this rush to such an unthreatening candidate, he won't inspire the youngsters to go vote and I don't know one republican that can utter his name with out a curse following it.

Where was Kerry when the repubs completely took over this country?
Why did he not speak out when dems got shut out of certain congressional meetings?
Why has he not uttered a word about electronic voting?
Why has he not simply said that we were LIED into war?
Why has he not said he would break up the mediawhores?
Why did he not say one bad word against the evil in power until he saw it was working for Dean? Even Geppy's miserable failure was more inspiring than anything out of Kerry's mouth?

I don't want someone to maintain the status quo! That is exactly what got us into this problem in the first place! In my opinion he is part of the problem not part of the solution and that is why I am ABK.

president, you can expect a lot more out of him.

You title your post that you are ABB, but in the last line of your post you say you are ABK.

Look, anyone from our side of the fence is better than what currently sits in the White House. Nothing anyone posts at DU will convince me otherwise.

As a professional historian in this state, I have worked with African Americans who were beaten and arrested when they tried to vote in the early and mid twentieth century. Tell them not to vote because your chosen candidate didn't get the tap. See what they tell you.

I am tired of people complaining that if their candidate doesn't get the nod, they won't vote. Anyone who withholds his or her vote on November 2, 2004 in my opinion has no right to any opinion about what happens thereafter.

I am sorry if you think I am being tough on you, but these ABwhoever threads are divisive and really serve no purpose on DU or anywhere else.

Vote or don't vote. But what's the point of convincing people NOT to vote--to sit home on November 2?

People waste far too much time on these ABwhoever threads, myself included.

Looks like the top four are Edwards, Dean, Clark, and Kerry

I said that I will vote for the democrat, I will still register people to vote democrat, but i am not satisfied with Kerry, I will not put a Kerry sticker on my car and i will not actively campaign for the man.

I am still mad about the ABD posts from a while back and maybe i am being childish, but why should I give my all to a man that hasn''t stood up for me and mine in the least and has said that we can win without the south. So since he plans on ignoring us then i will ignore him until the day I vote.

So, I've found the organized smear-a-thon tonight particularly revolting.

By all means, you can check my thread history and see that I've never said a negative word about any of our candidates....Lieberman included. Why? Because any one of them are better than the unelected fraud who's in Al's House.

I've also was an early contributor to Dean...I really liked the way he got out early and attacked Bush. He helped to frame the race and I am indebted to him for doing that.

But I have always been an admirer of Kerry, back when he was leading the VVAW....a more honorable man in government, I've never seen. I believe John will be the candidate that will give us the largest winning %, too. It is imperitive that we not get into a close race that can be manipulated by a few hundred votes.


So, by all means, hang and promote your candidate. But really think about the fact that ultimately, we are all Democrats 1st. Don't develop hatred for any candidate based on a few posters with questionable motivations. No candidate is as bad as some will try to paint them. The evil guys are on the other side of the aisle. Winning the nomination is important, but the real prize is unseating Dimson.

Kerry is not the perfect candidate. But I'm confident that he is not a loose cannon, scoring gaffe after gaffe as Dean has been. That's what scares me the most--a candidate with the reputation of being unstable. Bush would relish that and with good reason.

He is very very PO's that were lied into war and has said it. Ambassador Wilson, who exposed Yellow Cake has endorsed him and is on his team.

He said in the debates several weeks ago that if he is the nominee the first thing he will do is take on Diebold et al to make sure all votes are counted accurately.

He has been criticizing Bush for a long time, but you never heard about it because the media was all about Dean

If you look at his record he is very very very far from the status quo on the environment, women's issues. educaton. foreign policy, special interests.

Please take a closer look at him

you don't have to vote for him

favor.

I support Clark, Kerry, and Edwards and will gladly vote for any of the three. Will vote for any Democrat in the end, but my favorites are the three above.

I don't like all the cliquishness over spats on DU. This week one group wants to side with the other, and then then next week they want to side with another and belittle the group of "friends" from whom they divorced themselves this week.

People are investing too much emotion in candidate spats at DU. Why can't people just stick to talking about candidates instead of fomenting clique arguments?

Just my opinion, but NO, I won't be ABK. :(

I remain always ABB.

And on edit let me add that when I referred to dirty tricks in my header, I am talking about dirty flyers etc. between candidates, not insuating that anyone here is playing dirty tricks.

You can be ABK, but what do you have against Kucinich? ;)

that was funny

Which I really dont find true at all, and if he is, I would say the other big 3 are equally so. They all are or have ties to the DLC. Personally all said and done, cant we try to find the good in all these guys. :shrug: I must know. and on Kucinich :), you gotta be pretty dumb IMO if you think hes the most coropate.

that is fine with me. Nobody is stopping your extreme disastisfaction with Kerry. If you want to make it in your sig line, that is all fine with me.

What's the use of talking to someone who is ABD, ABL, ABE, and ABC? If that is the way they are going to act, then there is nothing I can do.

We Democrats need to defeat Bush this November no matter what. It's incredibly childish and immature for any of you to think about staying home on election day just because your feelings got hurt and your favorite candidate didn't make it through the primaries.

We all need to remember that the results of this presidential election will literally determine war and peace, life and death, prosperity or recession, future Supreme Court nominees, drilling in ANWR and so on.

Try and imagine what would have happened if the Humphrey or Johnson people had stayed home after Kennedy won the nomination in 1960. We might have ended up with President Nixon and a nuclear war over Cuba. Or try and imagine if the Tsongas, Brown, and Harkin people decided not to back Clinton after he won the nod in 1992. We would have had four more years of the first Bush and two, maybe three new conservatives on the Supreme Court. The bottom line:

WE SIMPLY CANNOT AFFORD FOUR MORE YEARS OF THIS REPUBLICAN CRAP! BUSH HAS GOT TO GO!

I am just venting my own dissatisfaction if Kerry is the nominee.

:-)

I am Dean girl, but my vote can be transferred to almost all of the other candidates, except for Liberman or Kerry. I'm sorry, but as I stand right now I think my vote on "principle" against Kerry or Lieberman would mean more than my "strategic" vote for them. I just don't see a defined absolute difference between them and Republicans....to me they represent all that has gone wrong with the Democratic Party: trying to win Republican votes instead of trying to energize and inspire new voters.

At this point, my opinion is that if Kerry or Lieberman wins I will vote third party.

Edited to add: but as for the original post which cited Sharpton being "down there"....I would vote Sharpton or Kucinich as my second choice any day. And I have good feelings for Clark and Edwards too, who I guess are ahead of them in the polls.

- Kerry supports sensible gun safety legislation that would keep firearms away from children and certain adults who should not have them. Bush, by comparison, is bought and paid for by the NRA, and has opposed virtually every single piece of gun safety legislation proposed during his political career, even legislation that would close the gun show loophole. NRA leaders are terrified of Kerry, and have bragged that Bush is "their man" in the White House.

- Kerry is a supporter of responsible middle-class tax cuts. Bush, however, supports (and has enacted) massive tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. As a result, we now have the largest deficit in American history. Bush and the Republicans have pledged to cut taxes even further in 2004 and 2005, a move that would balloon the deficit to almost unimaginable levels.

- Kerry supports and will defend a woman's right to choose. His first speech on the floor of the Senate in 1985 was about protecting that right. Bush and his fundamentalist Christian supporters, however, regard women as little more than breeding machines who must bear children no matter what, even if the woman has been a victim of rape or incest, and even if her health is at risk. Bush recently signed a blatantly unconstitutional "partial-birth abortion" bill that would (it is currently being challenged in the courts) turn into doctors criminals and seriously jeopardize a woman's right to choose, even in the first trimester. Kerry was against that legislation. Bush's cruel decision to restore the so-called Mexico City policy (which prevented women in third-world countries from getting the family planning information and care that they desperately need) resulted in the deaths of literally tens of thousands of women worldwide. Bush and his "pro-family" supporters would enact similar policies here in the United States, but they don't have the votes in Congress. Yet.

- Kerry has pledged to nominate qualified, moderate judges to the bench. Bush has nominated a string of extreme right-wingers to the bench, including Estrada, Pickering, and Owen. Bush has said that Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas are his two favorite Supreme Court justices. If re-elected, Bush will have a chance to nominate two, perhaps three justices to the Supreme Court, a move that will give the Court a strong conservative majority for decades to come.

- Kerry is a strong supporter of the separation of church and state. Bush doesn't support such a separation and seeks to funnel tax dollars to fundamentalist religious groups that will use the money to fight science (e.g. evolution) and spread hate and homophobia. Bush counts on such extreme fundamentalist groups to be among his strongest supporters on election day.

- Kerry supports affirmative actions programs that are designed to help women and minorities. Bush and his conservative supporters deride such programs as "quotas" and seek to have them shut down. Bush's fellow Republicans, such as those who helped Jesse Helms get elected to the Senate, have repeatedly used thinly-veiled racism to attack such programs. Bush also spoke at racist Bob Jones University and refused to condemn the Confederate Flag.

- Kerry respects the United Nations and understands that United States needs to work with other nations instead of just bossing them around and treating them like garbage. Bush, however, seems content with an aggressive, right-wing foreign policy in which the United Nations is pushed around, insulted, and treated like a joke. With Bush, you're "with us or against us." There is no middle ground. Not surprisingly, anti-American hatred has reached historic levels abroad. Photos of Bush (as well as American flags) are routinely burned in the same European capitals where President Clinton was cheered as recently as four years ago. Bush seeks to develop an unbelievably expensive missile defense scheme that many scientists believe will actually increase the chances of nuclear war. Kerry is against such a scheme.

- Kerry is a strong supporter of gay rights. Bush is not, and even supported the so-called "sodomy" laws that would imprison gay and lesbians for participating in consensual conduct in the privacy of their own homes. And not only is Bush against gay marriage, but he's against civil unions as well. He won't even support ENDA, a bill that would protect gays and lesbians in the workplace.

- Kerry has an excellent record with regard to protecting our environment; he vowed to filibuster any attempt to drill for oil in Alaska's pristine ANWR. Bush, on the other hand, has basically let the big polluters (oil/gas/mining) write the laws for the last three years. And Bush's Texas was one of the most polluted states in the union. Bush even wanted to drill for oil off the coast of Florida, a radical proposal that even drew criticism from his own brother.

These are only a few of the major issues on which Kerry and Bush disagree. There are literally hundreds more. So please, don't ever say that Kerry and Bush are alike or even similar with regard to the major issues of the day. It just isn't true.

Either we say no to corporatism/militarism by rejecting this Pentagon lobbyist for the military-industrial complex or we surrender our party and the Green party becomes the only serious alternative.

Your individual principles have to be paramount. I'm surprised anybody has a problem with this. In one year, or God forbid five, Bush will be gone. No need to sacrifice your integrity.

You really don't have a clue what is at stake here do you?

Ashcroft is persecuting Greenpeace with a law he dug up from the 18th century. Accusations are floating around that GP should be considered a terrorist organization. That would mean that ANYONE who contributes money to GP can be considered a terrorist.

Sure they would eventually win in court, after being indicted and imprisoned and fined but what the hell? Our integrity would be safe.

This is not another bullshit story, like Nader's "no difference between Gore and Bush" crap from 2000.

Well, we've sure seen how correct THAT one was, haven't we?

Anybody But Bush means just that. Otherwise you are voting for your own enslavement, and everyone else's. Where is the integrity in that?

I am sticking with ABB, I'll vote for any Democrat.

Where do I sign up?

I will join.

But I would change it to ABBKOL: Anyone But Bush, Kerry or Lieberman

reluctantly vote for him to get rid of Bush, but that will be it. I'll be taking a much harder look at the independent parties. Kerry is part of the segment of the democratic party who did exactly what Bush wanted. Make no mistake, they are part of the problem.

Kerry is fine. I personally would prefer any of the other 3 contenders as our candidate, but the day John Kerry is elected president there will be tears in my eyes anc champagne in my throat.

as his boy takes office. From will be happy that he succeeded in putting down the base's insurrection.

and for that reason I will oppose him, but for character, I find his personality much more attractive than Kerry's.

Except in the eyes of the most blind supporter.

I have problems with all of them, including my own. If I'm willing to forgive other candidates not only their weaknesses and vices, but their attacks on Clark, why can't you?

They are all worlds away better than the Chimp, period. Think about 4 more years of Bush and the damage that will do to this country.

ABB +++

is by pulling the ABB card? It would never be a vote for Kerry--but a vote against Bush, and that is very weak footing to build solid support base with.

Maybe the only argument for Kerry to you is ABB, but you are indulging in a great amount of projection if you believe that is the case for the majority of Democrats.

ABB. The ABB argument is only one of them.

Kerry is my first choice for a lot of reasons that have been enumerated by Kerry supporters.

Here's a summary of resume and positions:

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_0114.html

Giving America Back Its Future
Remarks by John Kerry as Prepared for Delivery

January  14,  2004

Davenport, IA -

It would be nice if ABK were made out of politically principled stuff, though, rather than the thinly veiled class hatred expressions that were the staple of the initial Dean campaign's anti-Kerry effort.

lawmaker in modern history?

Are you mad that he has the best environmental record?

Are you mad that he was the first of the candidates to advocate legislation for gays?

Are you mad that he helped end three wars?

Are you mad that he has the most liberal record, closest to Wellstone's of all the candidates?

http://makethemaccountable.com/podvin/more/040124_StopCrying.htm

1/24/04
“STOP CRYING IN YOUR TEACUPS”
By David Podvin

<snip>

But it is not unusual for Kerry to parrot the Republicans or be dismissive of liberal concerns. When members of the Congressional Black Caucus approached the senator for his support in challenging the Jim Crow tactics that subverted the 2000 presidential election, he told them to go away.

Kerry supported the Iraq War Resolution, either because he really believed Bush’s transparent lies (in which case he is not very bright) or because it was the politically shrewd thing to do (in which case he is not very honorable). Whatever the reason, there was no profile in courage from this Massachusetts senator.

When Bush and John Ashcroft used the terrorist attack on America as an excuse to confiscate civil liberties with the USA Patriot Act, it was Russ Feingold – not John Kerry – who rose with a stirring defense of American liberty. Kerry sided with the Republicans.

<end snip>


ABK WORKS FOR ME


:hippie:

It's already been debunked.

crying in your teacups quoted out of context. . .was a call to action and people at the rally liked it -- Don't get mad, get even. . .

Others oversimplified. This column is just a more sophisticated Rush slam.

:eyes:

We should only be ABB.

:P

Won't support or vote for any of them.

WE will make up our minds based on which candidate can beat Bush and be the best for the country.

I consider this a flame bait thread.

"if my guy isn't nominated I'll hold my breath until I turn blue."

I'll be bitterly disappointed if Kucinich doesn't get nominated or at least break out at some point, but I'm not going to have a temper tantrum about it.

I've seen the same thing you are seeing in this forum. It only inspires division--never any sort of unity, unless it is to ally to defeat another candidate.

I am pro-Dem.

Come November, after I dutifully cast my vote for that Bonesman sob from Boston, I "will tell you so!" as Kerry leads our party to a horrendous defeat, having failed to secure the antiwar vote, and having to spend all of his time defending his many nuances.

Kerry is unelectable, and I will tell you so on Election night.

untill primaries are over..
anyone beat kerry plz.

He'll get not one penny of my money nor one minute of my time.

I'll engage only in ABB activities. I will not be putting a Kerry sticker on anything, but Anybody But Bush.

I will not work for him for one second, under any circumstances.

The sleazeball will have to do it on his own because I am tired of holding my nose to vote.