David Corn: Explosive New Rove Revelation coming soon?

I don't usually log on Saturday evenings. But I've received information too good not to share immediately. It was only yesterday that I was bemoaning the probability that -- after a week of apparent Rove-related revelations--it might be a while before any more news emerged about the Plame/CIA leak. Yet tonight I received this as-solid-as-it-gets tip: on Sunday Newsweek is posting a story that nails Rove. The newsmagazine has obtained documentary evidence that Rove was indeed a key source for Time magazine's Matt Cooper and that Rove--prior to the publication of the Bob Novak column that first publicly disclosed Valerie Wilson/Plame as a CIA official -- told Cooper that former Ambassador Joseph Wilson's wife apparently worked at the CIA and was involved in Joseph Wilson's now-controversial trip to Niger.


To be clear, this new evidence does not necessarily mean slammer-time for Rove. Under the relevant law, it's only a crime for a government official to identify a covert intelligence official if the government official knows the intelligence officer is under cover, and this documentary evidence, I'm told, does not address this particular point. But this new evidence does show that Rove -- despite his lawyers claim that Rove "did not tell any reporter that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA" -- did reveal to Cooper in a deep-background conversation that Wilson's wife was in the CIA. No wonder special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald pursued Cooper so fiercely. And Fitzgerald must have been delighted when Time magazine -- over Cooper's objection--surrendered Cooper's emails and notes, which, according to a previous Newsweek posting by Michael Isikoff, named Rove as Cooper's source. In court on Wednesday, Fitzgerald said that following his receipt of Cooper's emails and notes "it is clear to us we need testimony perhaps more so than in the past." This was a clue that Fitzgerald had scored big when he obtained the Cooper material.


This new evidence could place Rove in serious political, if not legal, jeopardy (or, at least it should). If what I am told is true, this is proof that the Bush White House was using any information it could gather on Joseph Wilson -- even classified information related to national security -- to pursue a vendetta against Wilson, a White House critic. Even if it turns out Rove did not break the law regarding the naming of intelligence officials, this new disclosure could prove Rove guilty of leaking a national security secret to a reporter for political ends. What would George W. Bush do about that?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/david-corn/explosive-new-rove-revela_3933.html

Gotta fit him for that orange jumpsuit.

"disclosure could prove Rove guilty of leaking a national security secret to a reporter for political ends."

I'm not being smug, either.

or obstruction of justice.

Rove may think he can wiggle out by the term "knowingly"
But who cares.... It may not matter....
The more he wiggles the more he is proving a cover-up.
A dishonest character at the core of the Bush administration....
who must go... NOW.. and face obstruction of justice charges.

Good lord the man has been sitting on this information for years now...
if that's not obstruction i don't know what is.

has to prove Rove had the clearance to know exactly what Plame's position was, and therefore knew he should not reveal her position.

Or Fitz has to find the person who had the clearance to tell Rove and did tell Rove who she was - that one is even harder to prove.

Helllooo dick?

How about plain old treason?

requested be turned over. Maybe the pieces are fitting together. But, I still can't believe the Bushies won't fight like hell and pull some tricks to weasel out of this. :shrug:

locked up)....if he didn't have something concrete. I think Rove sang like a canary being the chicken shit that he is...and that now Fitz is trying to get a second person to say the same thing.

and Novak was the canary. Rove's claim that he did not identify Valerie Plame as a CIA employee is probably a variation on the old "what the definition of 'is' is" gambit used by Clinton - who also found himself in something of a sling, IIRC.

It goes something like this - Rove tells Cooper that Wilson's wife is a CIA operative; tells someone else (Novak, Miller, any of three or four other reporters) that Valerie Plame is Wilson's wife, yet another that Wilson's wife got him the Africa gig. (Not true, but who would care about that?) Once all the pieces are out there, the press outs Valerie Plame. Voila! A Rovian coup!

IMO, the whole plot will cave in on Rove. Or so my rose-colored crystal ball tells me.

like a canary.

I wrote a friend of mine yesterday that even if ROVE is plastered with slimy gook that covers his body with Plame shit, HIS lawyers have covered ALL his bases.

Number ONE: He might not have KNOWINGLY known she was a CIA operative.

Then we we'll just have to sit back and wait for the OTHER EXCUSES and outright LIES!!!

doesn't? It stretches the incredibility factor way to much.

Its his law they violated. He probably thinks his son is a chronic fuck up too.

What a good way to stick it to em.

that it will be forgotten by the Supreme Court, and other distractions

I hope I am wrong, but I believe that we can rely on the mainstream media to minimize it

Politically it should be over for Rove, anyone who who works for the administration has no business to identify whether someone belongs to the CIA or not to the media, and this was for a vendetta

Remember it was Newsweek who was accused by the administration of causing the deaths by printing the story about the desecration of the Koran

Well now it's payback time - how sweeeet it is.:hurts:

Sometimes when you Catapault the propaganda you have to make sure the elevation isn't set too high. Bag of shit heading your way karl ... We'll know if it lands just right - by the cheers and jeers from Langley.

edit to add - so why did Rove give Cooper the OK to testify? Hmmm and who is the other source - Scooter? Judy's source?

I want this to reach into additional dirt from BushCo on their Iraq lies, not just outing Plame because Wilson was a whistle blower. Let's keep it coming.

the notes already revealed the info about Rove anyway?

On July 6th Wilson's article ran, debunking the Iraq uranium purchase claim trumpeted by Bush in his State of the Union address.

Oh July 7th the White House quickly backed off this claim admitting that "the 16 words" shouldn't have been in the speech

On July 10th Rove talks to Cooper

On July 14th Novak's article ran outing a CIA "operative" (per Novak)

Plainly, just out of spite, and to discredit and minimize the import of what Wilson had to say, Rove outed Plame, thus destroying her career and wrecking a 10 year old CIA WMD intelligence operation.

Even if Rove didn't know Plame was "covert", he should be "frog-marched" out of the White House and, hopefully, out of public service. Giving him a dose of what he gave to the people at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib would be too nice for him.

Freedom Award.

and he and Tony Blair and George Tenet and Paul Bremer will end up sitting on the board of Halliburton or the Carlyle Group.

Or he will go to jail.

Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Hoeffel) for his consideration, and I commend him on the special order that brings him to the floor of the House of Representatives at this hour.

Mr. Speaker, I will finish the letter that I sent to Karl Rove calling for his resignation.

``Recent reports indicate that you told the journalist, Chris Matthews, and perhaps others, that Mr. Wilson's wife and her undercover status were `fair game.' Evan Thomas and Michael Isikoff, Newsweek Magazine, October 13, 2003. Since these initial allegations have arisen, neither the White House nor your office have denied your involvement in furthering the leak. Repeated press inquiries into this matter have been rebuffed with technical jargon and narrow legalisms, instead of referring to the broader ethical issues. Indeed, in the same article, it appears a White House source acknowledged that you contacted Mr. Matthews and other journalists, indicating that `it was reasonable to discuss who sent Mr. Wilson to the African country of Niger.'

``It should be noted that these actions may well have violated 18 U.S.C. section 793, which prohibits the willful or grossly negligent distribution of national defense information that could possibly be used against the United States. The law states that even if you lawfully knew of Mr. Wilson's wife's status, you were obliged to come forward and report the press leak to the proper authorities, not inflame the situation by encouraging further dissemination.''

Another section of the law, 18 U.S.C. section 793(f) is used for the basis of that remark.

``Larger than whether any one statute can be read to find criminal responsibility is the issue of whether officials of your stature will be allowed to use their influence to intimidate whistleblowers.

``Over three decades ago, our great Nation was scarred by an administration that would stop at nothing to smear and intimidate its critics. I do not believe the Nation will countenance a repeat of such activities. For your role in this campaign, I would ask that you resign immediately.''

Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman from Pennsylvania for his cooperation.

http://www.house.gov/abercrombie/fa.iraqwatch.october.htm

:bounce:

dare we hope? Who is leaking all this, though. Fitzgerald is supposed to be so buttoned down, it makes me wonder where Issikoff/Newsweek is getting the info. Plus, since Newsweek broke all the Monica trash I and others have not trusted them.

Keeping fingers crossed but Rove going down would be terrible for Chimp so is Newsweek just "smokescreening?" Some other plot to pull Chimp's butt out of the fire is being hatched? Why would Fitz leak, now?

Don't think Corn would say this if he didn't think it was verified, though. He's been mostly on our side. :shrug:

but their articles usually come out tomorrow, just like Corn says.

the only way anyone knew she was involved in the Niger presscake trip had to know of her status as a NOC who was analyzing the covert nuclear data she gleaned as a NOC.

Novak's 7/13/03 column outed her as a NOC. whoever told Novak that knew Plame was a NOC. Novak's claim of misusing the term "operative" does not hold water.

Noval lied about that, Josh Marshall showed that two yars ago

nothing like black and white to remove all the mystery and ambiguity.

did not KNOWINGLY disclose information that was illegal. That is not a denial - far from it - more like a "now that I'm busted how do I save my ass" kind of remark.

"What would George W. Bush do about that?"

- the same thing that he did to Rummy when it came out that the head of our military let torture go by, while on his watch, to people yanked off the streets without a trial.

So that would be zilch zero nadda.

Remember they have their own brand of reality. And it seems to be working on our free press. Just look at the new nyt artical talking up how scared they are of going to prison. (they admit to recieving stolen documents but say "sorry public, we are more important")
I don't trust anything coming out about this story.

Rove thought out all the ramafications before talking to the reporters.

Did he? I'm thinking "no". I'm thinking that despeartion to get that war going for his puppet and VP was intense. I'm thinking he thought that he had all the repoters in his pocket. I'm thnking he wasn't counting on the country turning against the asshat months after the 04 election. I'm thnking that pressure was put on him by Cheney to do what he had to do, damn the consequences.

Where is Cheney this week, BTW? Anyone?

followed by a doctor's visit on Friday, reported here on DU, which suggested his pacemaker is still working fine.

Sometimes it seems that if we aren't talking about something on DU, it isn't happening.

Unfortunately, Cheney is still Vice-president even when we aren't discussing him.

they do not want miller to talk..why? could it be that the times is actually taking orders from the whitehouse on what to print? it`s a no brainer that miller was...could it be the times phone call to the saudi charity that tipped them off to fitz`s impending raid on their offices in chicago?

w Miller & the Islamic charity.

Very interesting now that you mention it--Miller's tipoff to the charity & the outing of Plame (that Miller may also have had a hand in) both impeded anti-terrorist investigations.

There is another layer here that we are not seeing. Betcha Fitz sees it.

He said she was "an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame

Now they're trying to say she was just an "analyst," as IF that would have allowed her to get Wilson, somehow, to go to Africa in order to discredit information that has now -- hello -- been discredited anyway.

Rove's name being mentioned at ALL makes it obvious they are scrambling here, because they go to the lowest person possible to take the fall and work up from there. Rove is thus the tip of the iceberg, and they'll be lucky if it stops with him.

with WMD's unless you had classified information, or were told by someone with classified information. Valerie Plame's true function at the CIA wasn't publically available.

You are very correct, Rove is just the tip if the iceberg.

The question here is how many fall guys will there be to stand between Rove and Cheney?

Something else occurred to me as I was reading this blog entry, a question I don't believe I've heard asked yet.

Everyone assumes that Plame was outed due to a vendetta against Wilson.
Could there be another, more sinister agenda?

Don't mean to be a tinfoiler :tinfoilhat:, but is it possible in anyway that stopping Plame's operation was the ulterior motive? How much plutonium goes missing each year? Does it tie into WMD trade? Wasn't Plame's operation of importance in tracking WMD?

The revelations that have been surfacing with regards to the WH and the administration cause me to ask, what else has been manipulated? :shrug:

Excuse me, need to run to the store and pick up tinfoil. Excuse me, late/early on a Saturday night.

Forget I asked. But if anyone could explain why not to me, I'm willing to learn more.

Thank you. :hi:

:-)

You might want to check this thread out and give it a kick....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1914983

I will.
Maybe I think too much?!:evilgrin: :hi:

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

If like you say some plutonium goes missing, who is getting it and for what purpose?
Lets say that * and dicky were behind 9/11, now they know that if the shit starts hitting the fan on a number of issues they need a huge distraction: a dirty bomb terrorist attack would be a possibility.
That's stretching it even further but knowing these bastards nothing is unlikely.
I just went and bought myself a tin-foil parachute on this one.

Possibility #1
What if Valerie wanted to blow the administrations case against Iraq Nukes and she used Joe to get the story out? Rove smells who's the power behind the effort, bypasses Joe and goes after Valerie and sends a message to any other CIA employees with similar ambitions.

Possibility #2
The whole thing is a CIA sting to get even with the Whitehouse for making them take the hit - ie the CIA was blamed for the lousy intelligence that a well intentioned George relied on.

I believe it's the second. It was not my idea I read it somewhere else right after the story broke more than a year ago. (WP Message boards? maybe Justin Raimondo? I'm not sure) I remember at the time someone saying this had all the hallmarks of a CIA sting operation and that's why they were so ready for any missteps by the WH.

And for those with a really devious nature:
Possibility #3
George is putting pressure on Sharon to follow the roadmap by pushing the FBI investigation into AIPAC, Franklin et. al.
Sharon retaliates by putting the WH in jeopardy via Isikoff and the prisoner abuse scandal and Judy Miller, Plame et. al. Who's going to blink first?

Damn - nothin is as it seems in Al Capone's Chicago or George Bush's Washington.

http://sparky-mcgruff.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/3/164439/2536
Excerpt:
"What if it wasn't a foreign intelligence service? I had been suspicious that a Watergate-like coup was forming immediately after reading the first few stories about the documents. I was convinced when the AP reported on March 14, 2003 (just days before the Iraqi invasion) that the ranking Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee had called for an FBI investigation of the documents' origins. The Boston Globe reported two days later that the Senator was specifically seeking to determine whether administration officials had forged the documents themselves to marshal support for the invasion.

The request was not nearly as significant to me as who it had come from - Jay Rockefeller of the Standard Oil Rockefellers. An oil dynasty was calling for an investigation of a bunch of oil men. Somebody was screwing up big time.

Seymour Hersh dropped a major bombshell that went virtually unnoticed, 54 paragraphs deep into an October 27, 2003 story for the New Yorker titled "The Stovepipe."

Who produced the fake Niger papers? There is nothing approaching a consensus on this question within the intelligence community. There has been published speculation about the intelligence services of several different countries. One theory, favored by some journalists in Rome, is that Sismi produced the false documents and passed them to Panorama for publication.

"Another explanation was provided by a former senior C.I.A. officer. He had begun talking to me about the Niger papers in March, when I first wrote about the forgery, and said, 'Somebody deliberately let something false get in there.' He became more forthcoming in subsequent months, eventually saying that a small group of disgruntled retired C.I.A. clandestine operators had banded together in the late summer of last year and drafted the fraudulent documents themselves.

Hersh's revelation provided corroboration for something I and others, like the renowned political historian Peter Dale Scott, had been suspecting for a long time. The CIA was fighting back. This was a well orchestrated, long-term covert operation - exactly what the CIA does all over the world." (End of citation)

It wasn't JUST to discredit Wilson; it was MAINLY to stop Plame's "snooping", i.e., doing her job to KNOW about the whereabouts of Iraqi WMD. She is THE CIA agent who knew the TRUTH of NO WMD's!!!!

and nothing would make me happier that the thing with Rove and the frogmarch.

:party: :toast: :smoke: :hi:

:toast:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8525978/site/newsweek/

Good news for Rove and his attorney, maybe.

"Nothing in the Cooper e-mail suggests that Rove used Plame's name or knew she was a covert operative."

I do think there's something rather significant in it.

The report says that Rove told Cooper that Wilson's wife, who worked at the CIA, "authorized" Wilson's trip to Niger, and that neither the CIA Director nor Cheney authorized it.

It's too late at night for me to say anything absolutely, but that assertion sounds like Rove was way out of bounds making such a claim that I believe is at odds with the testimony of other people in the loop - - CIA people, specifically.

Assuming Rove's assertion about who authorized Wilson's mission is a false one, then Rove is guilty of defaming a CIA agent; of defaming a government employee for purely partisan political reasons.

That can't be OK to do from the White House, and I'll bet there's a statute somewhere that says you can't use government time or facilities to plant false information about another government employee.

Anybody know if there is such a statute?


(Edited for atrocious spelling and brain-dead name substitution.)

And not know the rest about what her job at the CIA? He knew who she was, what she did and what her area of expertise was (WMD?)

What is so important an issue to the White House that Rove would risk his reputation as a reliable source (by leaking false information to Cooper which could make Cooper look really bad if the assertion was disproved) and also risk committing fraud by his false assertion that Plame "authorized" Wilson's trip to Niger.

Said another way, the cover-up of Rove's having outed Wilson's wife seems way out of proportion to the crime, since Rove could so easily skate by saying he did not "knowingly" reveal anything.

I wonder if there isn't something bigger - - and I have no idea what that might be - - that Rove and Co. need to cover up?

the only revelation comes from Rove's lawyer, confirming what O'Dollell said, and the whole story frames the affair favorably to Rove's legal defense.

(Stolen in major part from graswire)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1914983&mesg_id=1917349

WH needs to obfuscate Iraqi NONEXISTANT nuclear threat in order to invade Iraq.
Valerie Plame is a threat to this disinformation.
A forged document is produced and given to the Italian reporter.
The claim must be investigated.
Wilson is set up to investigate the claim. (by Cheney)
WH claims to reporters that Wilson's wife, the covert op, sent him to Niger. (Perhaps by now Cheney or other stooge.)
Rove confirms that Wilson's wife okayed Wilson's trip. (Rove may not even know who the wife is. Just that she approved the trip.)
Plame's work is stopped along with other agents.
The WH can claim Saddam's "mushroom cloud" with impunity.
And Joe Wilson is harmed as a bonus.

If Rove did confirm, but did not out her, he could be named, he could allow a reporter to reveal himself in court. The unkempt end is who is the OTHER SOURCE? (Is this why Cheney is in hiding?) They have to get the rest of the story straightend out first.

(Sorry if you all need tin foil hats now. I really like the idea that Rove is not the person who will be named leaving egg on faces. But, Rove's name has been news too long for that. So, I'm moving on.)

Even if it turns out Rove did not break the law regarding the naming of intelligence officials, this new disclosure could prove Rove guilty of leaking a national security secret to a reporter for political ends. What would George W. Bush do about that?

Bush would ask Karl to lead the Repuke ticket in 2008 -- Karl Rove/Jeb Bush '08!!! </sarcasm>

Bush promotes incompetents and crimminals. He fires or drives out of employment those who tell the Truth about his Admin and his ADmin's policies.

keep Kofi in line and run the spyop there.

And I'll bet there's a charge reflecting that he coordinated the calls since there were at least 6 initial calls by at least and 2 different callers, which means Rove likely ran the conspiracy by directing the calls and preparing the confirmations making the issue of "knowingly" mute. (How do you run a conspiracy, even if they don't use her name but say, "Didn't Wilson's wife work at the CIA?," without KNOWING full well what you're doing?). It also means there will be more than one indictment of the administration's top officials. Read on.


Rational for the numbers:

The situation strongly implies that there were at least 2 different primary sources (since Matt Cooper's specifically released him, but Judith Miller's apparently did not do the same for her) and reason maintains there were at least 6 initial calls (the 6 reporters contacted: Robert Novak, Cooper, Miller, and 3 others), and 3 follow-up calls (Novak, Miller, Cooper). This is the minimum.


Scenario:

In order to make sure the story leaked properly, discrediting Wilson's yellow-cake findings (concerning Iraq's supposed activity to acquire materials for nuclear bombs) by implying he and his wife, Valerie Plame, had an agenda against the current administration since before the Iraq War, a single person talented in this realm would be very likely have to coordinate the calling. (Of course he could have made calls as well.) He would insure, for instance, that neither of the 2 or more primary sources should call the other's initial contact(s) (that would seem too eager, perhaps a dirty trick). In addition, 4-5 others would have to know the story was true in order to confirm it, and they had to be encouraged to do so.

Who better to coordinate and a historic master of the odious activity of defaming an opponent, Karl Rove? Perhaps Cheney (who would have felt responsibility in such a matter since it was the behest of his office that the CIA sent Wilson to Niger) used his clearance to discover this information and brought it to Rove at a meeting of the White House Iraq Group (see snippy's beautiful post in DU, link at bottom of this post). Then Rove would go into high gear, doing what he does best (worst). He coordinated the callings, made sure there were the requisite secondary sources ready and willing to confirm (perhaps each having different details or a different slant to make it sound realistic and not a set-up).

Therefore, Rove may well be both a conspirator (a little RICO, anybody?), and the leaker of illegal information, AND we may have at least one other indictment handed down. Think of the possibilities! Rice, Cheney, Libby, Hughes (why the hell did she retire before?), Matalin, etc. Maybe even W. (But the more I think about it, I wonder how many real reporters wouldn't be suspicious of a call from Rove? He might be the primary source for the likes of Novak, but few others.)

How's that for "knowingly"??? He will have no way to plead innocent to having "knowlingly" revealed the name of a CIA undercover agent since he coordinated several in that very activity (i.e., it wasn't a slip of the tongue or inadvertant blunder).

But think about the above and then read snippy's lovely item backed up by a Washington Post article:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=142863&mesg_id=142952

the discussion on this thread.

Decent resource:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x137848