say we win back the presidency in 2008 on a DLC platform.

What do we do with the opportunity? Go ahead and just finish off welfare entirely? Push a "MEFTA" trade agreement for the Middle East? What?

Rooting out the corruption and reforming the processes are more important than the specific policies. On the other hand, the policies don't look good to me.

Rooting out the corruption and reforming the processes are more important than the specific policies.

Couldn't disagree more with that if I tried. Reform is important, but...

The policies they're after look really bad. But I stand by the reform and investigation being more important than the specific policy. A catastrophically bad policy can still outweigh the importance of reform, but any one of a large number of "not so bad" policies are largely equivalent so long as reform, justice for past wrongdoings, and so on are pursued to prevent future disenfranchisement and bring to justice those responsible for past disenfranchisement.

It's a tradeoff. The DLC policies may be over the edge of the tradeoff (I think they are), but mediocre policy is still tolerable so long as reform occurs.

I suspect we differ in our definitions of "catastrophically bad" and "not so bad" policies.

They have been in on it all along anyway.

And that takes the hypothetical platform content issue into realistic "this will not help" territory.

Golly, I hope not. I hope/think this last election energized enough liberals that we can get a truly Democratic platform and a truly Democratic candidate.

Hell, they're attacking birth control. Birth control! Next to these folks, we could run Jello Biafra, and he'd look moderate.

That being said, the one issue I think we should "triangulate" on is illegal immigration. Strangely, Bush is for it.

we should do it by pointing out the fact that NAFTA evidently hasn't done much to stem the tide of poor Mexicans looking for a better life elsewhere.

...we lost the 1994 elections because of them. That's totally it to me.

Fuck welfare! I'd kick back and have a Triple Thick Milkshake.

_{NOTE: This post is sarcastic.}

Care to address my question? :D

http://www.ndol.org

Your post violates the rule that says you should not go on here asking people for things you can find on Google.

Imagine my shock. :)

No thanks, I'm not asking about the pretty sounding platitudes on ndol.

What should we do then? Free government-subsidized Earth Shoes for everyone? Replace tater tots in school lunches with herb garlic couscous and pitas with baba ghanouj? Free Mumia?

But then, progressives have never suggested these things (except for the Free Mumia crowd, with which I disagree) while the DLC has a history in the subjects I listed. But then, you knew that, and you're simply being silly.

I should have added privatizing all schools as an option.

btw, I'd still like a real answer from you.

Earth Shoes were another way of marking yourself as having "hippy" progressive values back when they were popular.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_shoes

In that movie Super Size Me they show some school where they went all for these health foods instead of fried stuff, and they had some brand of bread they were using that I saw in Whole Foods Market before, so I know that it's a progressive effort.

And as you say, there are people who want to Free Mumia.

Another thing is, will they make us all ride bikes a la Critical Mass?

I'd like to review it, because I can't just rely on the talking points I get from the fax machine; sometimes I need to "improvise".

A Middle Eastern bill would likely change some wording to account for regional differences, though.

Actually, a free trade bill for South America would probably be more likely.

Uppity bastards.

Love that new sig animation, btw. :D

Let's GO, gang!!


Ulysses, you're a naughty, naughty boy: :spank: :loveya:

:D :hi:

to do more of everything that Bush has done for the investor class already, with a bit less Gitmoing to show that we are still Democrats, if only in name and heritage.

Would we pull out of Iraq?
I doubt it.

Would there be a draft?
There will be one by 2008 already.

Would there be real energy policy reform?
There will have to be, with oil prices over
$100/bbl.

Would there be real business reform?
Are you kidding?

Universal health care, education funding, real security against possible terrorist attack?
Dream on.

But I think that if Americans want to vote for more of the same in 2008, they will vote for a genuine Repug, not Repug-lite.

In fact, if that is their only choice, despite the fact that they want to vote progressive, they might still vote Repug, figuring better the devil you know...

OTOH, this could be the opportunity of a lifetime for the Greens.

sounds like a losing war in Iraq, invasion of Syria and Iran... oh wait that's republican. God every where; crosses on our public buildings

Rant over.

I had this idea that we'd been out of power for five years.

The DLC, on the other hand, has been chugging right along,
collecting MORE $$$ every year from CORPORATIONS
who view the US CONSTITUTION as an impediment to their goals....

Cause we did win in 92 and 96, and most folks consider Bill Clinton to have been DLC.

What changed? Was it not the DLC but Bill himself who got him elected?

We shut up and be "good Democrats" who vote for DLC candidates.

or was he only nominally DLC>

He had a hand in founding the organization.

Did life suck that badly? I suppose it depends on who you ask. Are you poor, and did your welfare assistance run out in 2001, five years after the five-year time limit was placed on welfare bennies and just as the recession was gearing up? Are you an American who lost her job as corporations followed the downward spiral of wage protections and job safety overseas? Are you a Mexian of Filipino who went to work in a maquiladora or an export zone under sweatshop conditions for ridiculously low pay...only to see your job go overseas again when the corp. found another government willing to sell out its people?

Bill or Bush?

I have no idea. They're both culpable, though - it was a very "bipartisan" idea. :puke:

Do you think the folks you listed have fond thoughts of Clinton, blame him for their plight, or blame Bush, or blame both, or just plod along figuring that's life?

Nevermind who's actually to blame. If Bill could run for prez again, would they vote for him? I'm wondering about perception.

I suspect that they want to blame someone, but have little time to bone up on just who pushed what. That works to the benefit of all involved in these shenanigans.

that none of us will recognize them as different for the GOP. THEY WILL TAKE SOCIAL SECURITY AWAY FROM US and put it on Wall Street as a payment to the corporate owned voting machines for the win. The DLC is just as corrupt as the GOP, probably worse because we all know pukes are greedy corporate whores who give the voters ZERO ZIP ZILCH NADA. Now these so called DLC (aka Fascist democrats) will bamboozel us into voting for them, then when they're sitting in the WH, the edits and proclamations will start to roll-proposals to end or rollback significantly all social programs.. Howard Dean has been talking about it with them but they're so hard core that they can't be reasoned with. Personally I don't think they should be allowed to run with the name DEMOCRAT pinned to them. The DLC is to Democrat as the Bush fascist neocon fundies are to republican. They like war and the patriot act powers too! PS WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME HOW TO START A NEW PARAGRAPH..