Said to me: All you Democrats want to do is complain, complain, complain

I was outnumbered 6 to 1 in a meeting today and this started the discussion. Keep in mind I was there to discuss the status of a rather important implementation and up to that point politics had NEVER been discussed (nor should they IMO). It came up today and it appeared orchestrated since the charges and nothing short of insults came flying my way.

Well I guess my rage for Bush is counterproductive in that I locked up and really couldn't say much (the words just wouldn't come out) and wasn't sure what I could say since all the managers three levels up for me are HUGE Bush and GOP supporters. So I'll ask you...how would you have responded? Is that all we do?

Thanks.

Who started the political discussion? They did? What's the context that came before the remark?

Edited to add: Sorry, this sounds awfully attacking-y, and it's not meant to be an attack -- I'm just kind of incredulous that this would happen to you in a business meeting and asking for a little clarification about the sitch before I respond, that's all. I *totally* believe that it happened.

It went something to the effect of:

A: Let's give X and Y a few more minutes to get here, I think the meeting they are in is running over.

B: Yea we don't want them to rush through taking care of business, like the Democrats want us to do in Iraq.



Me: Luckily neither X nor Y are risking their lives. That's a kinda heavy analogy there, B, but let's review the status of action items until X and Y get here. Then we can give them a summary and still keep our meeting under an hour.

A: All you Democrats want to do is complain, complain, complain...

and went from there.

How very passive-aggressive of that person. You certainly did the professional thing in trying to keep the meeting on topic. Let's see, as a well-known office liberal who takes no shit off of anyone how would I have handled that? I would NOT have handled it as professionally as you had, but I also figure if they start something with me, I'm going to finish it.

A: Let's give X and Y a few more minutes to get here, I think the meeting they are in is running over.

B: Yea we don't want them to rush through taking care of business, like the Democrats want us to do in Iraq.

A: ((rolls eyes)) Yeah, whatever. Like the Republicans did such a wonderful job getting us INTO that because of their imaginary WMDs. Can you say IRAQNAM, Timmy? I knew you could.

Of course, my tack would TOTALLY not have gotten anything accomplished in the way of work, but I would've enjoyed attacking them. But I like a fight. The thing is that -- my philosophy here -- if people start to bully you, you have to stand up to them. So I do. :shrug:

Well, you know...rushing in, rushing out. This is a busy little administration, and there's a lot of little countries that need invading! We really can't do much more damage in Iraq, so we may as well move on.

That's all... :evilgrin:

1) that is only one complaint
2) the OP now says "complain, complain, complain"
3) you are therefore two complaints short
4) now the rest of us are going to have to complain more just to maintain the average.
5) why are we even complaining when we should be saying "we told you so, we told you so, we told you so"?
a) The tax cuts would lead to deficits - we told you so
b) Saddam was not a threat - we told you so
c) this war would not be a cakewalk - we told you so
d) this war would cost too many lives and too much money - we told you so
e) this war needed more allies, more troops, more planning for the peace, and an exit strategy - we told you so.
6) Answer the complaints today, or there will be even more complaints and more "we told you so's" next year.
7) Of course, we all know that Republicans and Limbaugh, etc. never complained about either Clinton or JR Bush (all the time they are attacking him for being 'soft on liberals' and 'too moderate')
8) Don't make me stop this car and come back there!!!

there is so much I want to say that sometimes I don't know where to begin and I come off as a raving lunatic because I just want to slap these people and be like "what don't you understand?"

That is what they were doing when Clinton was President
we just state the facts


I dont talk politics with any of my big accounts, I dont want
to lose them, or their business for some stupid reason

like that - 6 to 1 is a really unbalanced. However, I do believe there are real things to complain about that can be attributed directly to the Repugs in Wash that if you asked these people about them, they would have no answer. I just don't think I'd waste my time with a group like that tho.

like they did't comp[lain about everything and lie too Remember Clinton's haircut? more lies File gate travelgate whitewater(found nothing) monica lieing about sex? War lies are ok. But I was in a union shop and I was an e/board member/stewart. Investigations then , mucho now? nada. Lie to congress about medicare costs too What about the made in America label on clothing from the sweatshops in Saipan?

That would help frame your post in the appropriate light.

You're in a real spot there at work. I would probably say something about how as of today 2000 American soldiers died in Iraq for a lie. if that's complaing, well too bad. It's a reflection of my values. Hope this helps.

which would relieve companies from the burdens of insuring their employees. I would have mentioned that Democrats want fair trade that will benefit business in the US. I would have mentioned that Democrats want more emphasis on the development of alternative energy so that we can meet the challenge of increased competition for petroleum. I would have pointed out the relative prosperity of the Clinton era. I would have asked whether, when all is said and done, they really think that "bringing freedom to Iraq" is worth 300 billion US tax dollars. I would have asked whether they really think that No Child Left Behind has improved public education. The list is endless.

Ask them what is important to them first. Listen to them and then point out how much better the Democratic policy on the issue or issues is or are. If it's lower taxes. Ask them how much their investments have increased in value since Bush took over. What's better? Slightly lower taxes or gains in your portfolio? Which one indicates a healthy economy?

n/t

I'd gladly pay more if it meant more services for the citizenry.

Sorry that I don't bow down and worship Bush, but I believe in free speech as well as critical analysis of political events. Please don't take it personal that I do not feel the herd instinct to blindly follow Bush.

I like that a lot. I will have to use it.

"excuse me, I guess I don't have that herd instinct....

:headbang:

Its fair to bring up something like Bush people complaining about Clinton, but do it with a smile, talk like you're above the whole thing. If they start getting truly upset, just brush it off and tell them "I don't take politics that seriously." This may not be true, but politics can srew up a job good, so just be careful.

Also, being "above politics" can be used as a springboard for trying to get them to stop talking about Bush. If you value the place, keep the office non-political, trust me.

I am just that enraged at what he is doing to our country.

But be aware that it can poison the office relationships. I would push HARD fo a non-political office, if you want to fight for something.

You need to be able to, like the zen master, put the anger aside and concentrate on coming up with witty things to say. THIS is how to handle the bullies.

:hug: Big Hug for you!

how they feel about abortions. Which have been legal for years.

Or about the relationship between church and state. Which has up until recently been stable for years.

Or about the UN. Which has up until recently been stable for years.

Or about teaching genuine science in schools. Which we've been doing for years.

You get the idea. Ask them about these things, and watch them bite their tongues. Rack your brains, or just watch the news... I don't think it'll take you long to come up with a whole heap of stuff the Republicans are complaining about. It's the entire point of RW hate radio, for fuck's sake... all hate radio is is a pig-ignorant, self-appointed saviour of the world fucking complaining about things for hours.

Tell them their stereotype is about 30 years out of date. Make them realise that the Bushistas are the radicals, the ones who want to change everything, the ones who aren't happy with the way things are... at the moment, liberals are true conservatives by comparison.

and the head of Iraq want the US troops out early next spring. Isn't this the same administration that poo-poohed the idea of an exit plan or time table?"

The unions have slowly but surely wrecked the US economy and they take their marching orders from the Democrats.

have wrecked the American economy by moving all of their jobs overseas, where the workers make two dollars an hour and live in mud huts.

The American worker is our economy, not what wrecked it..Democratic leaders should only be taking marching orders, and the unions and voters should be giving them! :spank:

There are so many, many F**ked up things going on. I guess I would have tried to not get angered, but I can just guess how hard it would have been to do so. I suppose the best thing to do would have been to try to make a joke out of it, like "well, maybe we should save that discussion for our joint appearance on Hardball" or something. But one on one, start by asking, what, if anything, has Bush done for our country? And be prepared to debate the inevitable garbage points about "making us safer, improving the ecomomy..." What you can always get them on is the deficit, and the size of government. No republican can stand there and talk about how great a huge deficit is and how wonderful Bush has been at increasing the Government. And finally hit them with the Big Brother aspects of the Patriot act. Good luck being in the lion's den....

and then we'd have LESS to complain about!

Just wondering.:evilgrin: So isn't it amazing that this "leadership" would implement a WAR without one????

Thank you for your comments. I would appreciate it if you were to inform me when my politics becomes part of my job requirements. In the meantime, we have work to do on ______. If you would like to discuss politics I'm sure I can find some time outside of work when that would be more appropriate.

I'd rather listen to complaints than a pack of LIES.

:smoke:

steal, fuck up, lie, cheat and steal some more.

you could respond--if you need to respond-- 'Yes, it's really annoying when people complain all the time. But sometimes that's all people are allowed to do by those in power, so I try to take that into account.'

Because the party out of power cannot schedule hearings on legislation; not having the bully pulpit of the White House makes it hard for the "out" party to set the nation's agenda, that is to say, the issues that we as Americans are talking about. Sure, the "out" party can propose ideas, call huff and puff press conferences or write fancy policy manuscripts, but these types of things tend to be ignored by the mainstream media and by the governing party in Washington. Hence, it's understandable that people who are not really plugged into the political process will not know much about what the Democrats propose to do.

that we have policies and solutions to all those problems. You need to turn off Fux, turn off Rush & Seany and learn to read. And you'll have to seek out impartial news sources.
We are proposing solutions, but much like the tree that falls in the forest, does it make a sound if no one hears it.
I then hop into health care if I can, or education. Usually most the stuff they hear from me is stuff they have never, never heard before. I come loaded for bear. When we talk Iraq I immediately turn the talk to how we got in there. Democrats voted for it also, you say? Dems were given bad, cherry-picked intelligence. What about the DSMs? <i could go on but will shut up>

they don't know any better. I look at Bushie Republicans with sadness in my heart. They're like little children they are so naive to the REAL world.

See they were your managers so chances are they make more money then you so they don't know what it's like to have to struggle like most Democrats do.

I don't attack Republicans when I first meet them because (and I may be naive) I think I can change them, maybe show them the light. Or at least tell them what the Democratic Party is really about and not what they think we are about from what they've heard from the RNC and GOP interest groups.

What I do in those situations is first I let them speak because I know off the bat they are not going to change my mind and that they don't really know what they are talking about, especially the ones that believe Fox News is really fair and balanced and only get their news from them.

Then after they have spoken I tell them how I feel on that issue and why I feel that way. See if they are truly civilized people who just happen to be Republicans and not ragging neo-con right wing nuts(because there is no talking to them rationally) then they will at least hear you out. There is nothing wrong with healthy debate as long as both sides know what they are talking about. They were totally wrong to jump on you because no side is always right on a certain issue. I'm sure them jumping on you and spotting out a bunch of pro-Bush propaganda created by Karl Rove did not change your politics. I've seen James Carville get flustered and be the "Ragging Cajun" after debating Republicans on those cable shout shows. It happens to the best of us.

Just remain calm and you'll be able to to collect you thoughts and put together a good argument and still be able to stand your ground. Those Right-Wing nut cases love to yell and argue and see Democrats and or liberals angry and yelling too. Seeing us unhappy is the only time they are really happy.

I mean Kerry won the debates last year because he remained cool, calm, and collected because he knew if he gave Bush enough rope he'd hang himself. Gore won the debates in 2000 if you actually look at what he was saying, but the media paid more attention to the huffing and sighs then to what Gore actually said during the debate and it was the sighs that turned people off. Because Kerry stayed calm and just stated the truth and the facts during the debates he was able to come back after the low numbers he had after the RNC.

See what I have also done is use other Republicans against Bush. For example I told one Bushie I used to work with that "George W. Bush isn't fit to shine Ronald Reagan's cowboy boots." And he agreed with me! See I used the Reagan legacy against Bush and in the process diminished GWB in the eyes of my co-worker who was a GWB supporter. And because I said something good about Reagan (who I really think was one of the worst Presidents ever) I was able to get my GOP supporting co-worker to talk to me rationally and disarmed him from his Republican/Fox News talking points. I even got him to to say he wouldn't mind if John Edwards was President (this was back during the primaries). Just toy with their minds, divide and conquer, pit Reagan against Bush or even Bush Sr. against Bush Jr. You don't have to mean what you say, just disarm them.