Are you familiar with Plato's "fatal cycle"...

kentuck

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Sat Sep-17-05 05:16 PM
Original message

Are you familiar with Plato's "fatal cycle"...

He was defining the end of the Roman Empire. The "fatal cycle" began with a monarchy, then an aristocracy, then oligarchic exploitation, then came democracy, then revolutionary chaos, and finally, dictatorship. An age of freedom ends and an age of discipline begins. So is the lesson of history.

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HereSince1628

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Sat Sep-17-05 05:21 PM
Response to Original message

1. Either it wasn't Plato or it wasn't Rome or it was neither

Plato was dead before Rome came anywhere near its end.

Of course, he could have been using some device to see into the future of his ancient time

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Tace

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Sat Sep-17-05 05:26 PM
Response to Original message

2. Yeah, Gimme A Link, Kentuck!

Edited on Sat Sep-17-05 05:27 PM by Tace

I'm an amateur Platonian.

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kentuck

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Sat Sep-17-05 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #2

7. I got it from a book....

Caesar and Christ by Will Durant....pp208

My wife is reading it per her interest in the new ROME series on HBO and pointed it out to me.

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deutsey

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Sat Sep-17-05 05:27 PM
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3. "The Trial of Socrates" by I.F. Stone portrays Plato as a young oligarch

if I recall correctly.

Stone seemed to see him and Socrates as anti-democratic oligarchs bent on destroying Athenian democracy.

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HawkerHurricane

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Sat Sep-17-05 05:29 PM
Response to Original message

4. Screw Plato

Or Platahn, to use the correct pronunciation.

This is the philosopher of the NeoCons. The one that said that it's ok to lie to people 'for thier own good'. EVEN IF THE LIE KILLS THEM. He's the original justification for the caste system of inherited power. Read 'The Republic'. It tells you how to put people in thier place and keep them there forever.

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Finder

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Sat Sep-17-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #4

6. Agree he is a favorite of the neocons, but....

I personally love Plato. I think you are over-simplifying "The Republic" a bit.

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HawkerHurricane

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Sat Sep-17-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #6

11. Yes, I did.

I didn't make it look as evil as it is.

Certain people are meant to rule, some are meant for skilled labor, the rest for unskilled labor... and don't worry, WE, the rulers, will tell you which catagory you belong in.

Oh, and it's ok for the rulers to lie 'for the good of the state'. Of course, what's good for the rulers is good for the state.

Sorry, it's not OK to lie 'for the good of the state'. And I'll decide who my rulers are, and what place I'll take in society, thank you very much.

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nadinbrzezinski

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Sat Sep-17-05 05:33 PM
Response to Original message

5. Plato died well before the Roman Republic, let alone the

Roman Empire

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kentuck

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Sat Sep-17-05 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #5

8. Sorry for the miscommunication...

I think Durant was defining it in the context of the Roman Empire - not that it was a direct quote.

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The Blue Knight

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Sat Sep-17-05 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #5

9. "The Fall of the Republic" (from best to worst)

1. True Aristocracy
2. Timocracy
3. Oligarchy
4. Democracy
5. Tyranny

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bluedawg12

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Sat Sep-17-05 07:25 PM
Response to Original message

10. I gather we're in stage 4?

Or at risk of stage 4?

Wasn't it Athens that went down the crapper like this with Pericles?

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