Student activism is battling apathy

Student activism is battling apathy

http://tinyurl.com/b4zsp

there's no draft at the moment.

Just wait till the govt starts telling these kids "put down your books pick up these rifles and kill for Uncle Sam-or face jail time"

If/When that happens I am peronally gonna beat the living shit out of every Bush Voting Republican I find just before I move to Canada or Mexico.

Without the draft, the 60s wouldn't have gone down the way they did. Self-interest means a hell of a lot.

Selma Alabama, Women burning their Bras, Mario Salvio leading the first student sit down because of clothing. College students were not allowed to wear what they chose to wear and that was not right. Small matter now but at the time a pretty big deal. Don't get me wrong the Vietnam Conflict was a big deal but it was not the lone issue of the sixties. Students were for the first time standing up to Authority. "Question Authority" was a very popular button at the time.

Heck, just read the book "1968" by Mark Kurlansky -- political upheaval was a worldwide thing then, not just American. But the students protesting in Chekoslavakia and Poland, the African Americans protesting in the American South, women protesting the world over -- all of these people shared the common trait of being members of an oppressed underclass. One cannot say the same of well-to-do, white college students.
While it's impossible to prove without getting in a time machine and screwing up history (as is any historical "what if" question), I think the draft provided the oppressing force needed to move college students into action. Without the draft, there is no 1960s antiwar movement. I'm quite convinced of it. Despite the idealism associated with the 60s antiwar movement, it was in the end caused by the same basic thing that causes all human interaction, either directly or indirectly -- sheer self-interest.

Even modern political leanings are based on it in one way or another. It's just different ways of looking at things. I believe it's in my self-interest for government to respect the fourth amendment and stay the hell out of my life, while at the same time helping the poor to get an upper hand, since poverty indirectly affects us all through everything from increased crime to lower average wages.
Conservatives, on the other hand, think that their self-interest means that behavior should be heavily regulated to prevent crime and deviant behavior, while at the same time halting government assistance to the poor because the conservative believes he/she should keep his/her own money.
Either way, one's political beliefs are based in self-interest. I don't think that changes just because one happens to be talking about the 60s.

Heck, it's obvious that the antiwar movement was, in fact, the weakest of all the movements of the era. The civil rights and feminist movements accomplished real, longterm effects (e.g. roe v. wade, voting rights). What did the antiwar movement of the 60s do? Essentially nothing. They had Nixon and Vietnam. We have Bush and Iraq. The military industrial complex is as strong as ever -- heck, stronger.

So, to conclude, I agree that there were a lot of other movements for social change in the 1960s. In fact, I would go one step further and say that a lot of those other movements have a lot more relevance today than the 60s peace movement ever did.

and with little or NO Safety-Net - whether there's a Draft or not.

We ARE War Slaves to America's WAR PROFITEERING - Tax Subsidy Loving - "Aristocratic/VIP" Ari$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$tocra$$$$$$$$$$$$$$y!!!! - and please underline the . . . crass.

All of them should read Jonathan Kozol and Paul Krugman and Barbara Ehrenreich. We ARE the "rif-raf".

kicked the Brits butts in the American Revolution! Viva La Rif-Raf!!

The Fish Cheer & I-Feel-Like-I'm-Fixin'-To-Die Rag by Country Joe and the Fish

Gimme an F!
F!
Gimme an I!
I!
Gimme an S!
S!
Gimme an H!
H!
What's that spell ?
FISH!
What's that spell ?
FISH!
What's that spell ?
FISH!

Yeah, come on all of you, big strong men,
Uncle Sam needs your help again.
He's got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Vietnam
So put down your books and pick up a gun,
We're gonna have a whole lotta fun.

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

Well, come on generals, let's move fast;
Your big chance has come at last.
Gotta go out and get those reds —
The only good commie is the one who's dead
And you know that peace can only be won
When we've blown 'em all to kingdom come.

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

Huh!

Well, come on Wall Street, don't move slow,
Why man, this is war au-go-go.
There's plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,
Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
They drop it on the Viet Cong.

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

Well, come on mothers throughout the land,
Pack your boys off to Vietnam.
Come on fathers, don't hesitate,
Send 'em off before it's too late.
Be the first one on your block
To have your boy come home in a box.

And it's one, two, three
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

I know I'm upset. We are peacemarching in San Fran this Saturday and our 24 year old college grad is too 'afraid.' Why do the old hippies have to do it again? What is WRONG with these kids?! * sure as hell isn't sending me (50) or my 54 year old spouse to Iraq! I am really frustrated with these kids' attitude! Where are their NADS?!

At least you have ibuprofen this time around.

You got that right and 600 mgs. too! Give me my Icy Hot and the pill, I can march for 8 hours or so!!!

:rofl: Owww...that hurts! hehee

We're a group that takes what little freedoms we have for granted, hell most kids in my age group can't even name all 50 states with a map in front of them; they're too busy chasin skirt or polishing their chromed out SUV's.

I have nothing but shame for people in my age group overall.

but we have to love those self-absorbed types too. It's my generation that's helped to overspoil them. I don't want to see any American kids dying for a f***ing lie, even if they bug me!

I think some are like me. The rest are probably just bums.

or a war?!

I'd take a bullet in a peace march if the end result was peace.

Wouldn't you rather fight against war here than fight a useless war 'over there?' Our sicko government is looking towards Iran, Syria, Venezuela, etc. etc. It is not, I repeat, NOT us old folkies that are going to be sent. It will be YOU.

besides, i'm safe, they don't like having us hormone-crazed freaks (women) fighting.....


anyway, where I come from on the internets, answering 'yes' or 'no' to an either/or question is a slightly snarky way to say 'either'. didn't know we were the only ones that did that. heh i'm internet-jingoistic? i'm at work and a little spacey right now.

my concern isn't so much for getting hurt in a protest, it's more a fear of people seeing my protest and hunting me down. i'm still afraid that our college's crazy antiabortion chick who graduated last year is going to come burn down my house just because Barak and Roll lives there too. I can't deal with that kind of notoriety (I have a paranoia problem, according to my doctor.)

i'm also not much of a protest type, i'd rather work behind the scenes organising.

but women won't be safe if they reinstitute a draft.

These neo-cons don't scare me...they'd best be getting scared themselves because WE OUTNUMBER THEM. And I know a lot of folks that just aren't going to take it anymore! Besides, peace and protest marches NEED us hormone-crazed women!!! Look how skeered W is of Cindy Sheehan! LOLOL!!!! Wussy man!

but there was a lot of apathy on campus in the '60's, too. Especially in the beginning of the war. Even though we had the draft, it didn't really apply to lots of guys on campus because of student deferments.

deferments for his 'other priorities?'

I think the apathy stopped when Kent State happened...I know it stopped when that picture was published of the little girl on fire with napalm.
These kids better wake the hell up! * intends to use them for more cannon fodder.

stoked those who could be stoked.

Mai Lai did it for me.

and march with us on Saturday! D.C., San Fran, Los Angeles, and other cities are marching THIS SATURDAY, 9/24!