How many of you have experienced the "I'm not political" kind

of person in your daily affairs. I have been thinking about this. My experience in Texas is either: a) people don't want to talk about "politics" (that is the most frequent response); or b) people are extremely devoted to that lying lunatic * and his regime; or c) people are not really on his side but not really against him either; or d) they are extremely committed to being against this regime.

Mostly though, nobody wants to talk about it. Is that what you get in your area too? I mean, there is this huge big elephant (the GOP elephant)that nobody wants to talk about. They will talk about almost anything but when it comes to "politics" there is an immediate shut down. Have you experienced that? I have; even from people who don't know where I stand. It is very scary I think. This "I'm not political" or "I am A-political" or "I'm not into politics" or "politics is a waste of time" etc., etc.

I was just wondering what your experience was. Is it just here? I doubt that. It's been going on for years now. During the "election" people said to me, "I had no idea you were so political." What? I mean, I am but it's your country and your life here. How can people not get that?

there are truly lots of people out there that are totally clueless and live in their little bubbleland. They don't follow stuff like we do. They don't care, as long as it doesn't affect them personally. MSM doesn't help...by reporting "sensational" news like runaway brides & lost white college students in faraway islands.

That said, the only thing that seems to be awakening people is the cost of gas. And just wait until the heating bills start coming in this winter... Perhaps then people will start to look around and question the crap we've known has existed since Boy George crowned himself king of the world.

Just my two pesos worth...

just ignore them all"

:banghead:

I'm ready to smack my MIL for saying that, then dutifully voting EVERY FREAKING ELECTION!!

if you think "they're all the same" and are too lazy/busy to get informed, DON'T VOTE!!

I have often had people tell me things like "Tut, tut, I agree with you (about politics, the corruption of the Bush regime, the latest outrage, etc. etc.), but you shouldn't get so worked up. You should let it go."

Well, when IS the right time to get worked up? Probably never, according to these types.

is that it leads to arguments. It's considered "polite" to avoid topics that are known to cause arguments. Futhermore, people rarely change their minds. So you've got a situation where you are likely to start an argument, and not do any good.

That's a shame, but it's been my experience. I like to talk politics, but I'm pretty sure I've never changed anybody's mind in all my years. And I've definitely started more than my fair share of shouting matches.

Southern California is about as boring as it gets where politics is concerned. It's freaky. No one knows anything and if you bring up anything political, conversation screeches to a halt.

I honestly think it's that people just take their freedoms for granted.

I hate it when people just don't care. Have an opinion about something, dadgumit.

most people don't seem to want to discuss it.

I find it incredibly frustrating, since 'politics' has such a huge impact on all of our lives on a daily basis.

Most people are just clueless.

After I responded to it, she wrote back in disagreement with a few points of her own, then ended with "And I'm not talking politics."

I wrote back with, "Sorry, when I read "Democratic Leadership vs. Republican Leadership" captioned on the picture, I got the impression it was about politics."

:wow:

Well...ANY kind of agression, for that matter!

They have the mean gene.

:kick:

granted, I can probably get annoying with trying to find information and know what's going on in the world, but it does affect us all every day, even if not so obviously.

The more they gut the education system and abuse the press, the more people will shut it out also, and an uneducated mass is easier to control and keep pacified.

Any coincidence we're also breaking records (even our own) for consumerism? Buying new stuff is a drug and stops the pain.

One more thought. I know folks who are otherwise intelligent, were duped, yet are too stubborn to admit it and now won't back down. Sadly, one is my father-in-law....

. . . to conduct their Class War against "THE OTHER" citizens of the erstwhile Republic.

Not necessarily political. Same as those who think they are "independent" or "moderate"--always means they are conservative.

and an anti-corporatist populist. I don't really think any modern party represents me, unfortunately. Certainly not a "conservative" by any stretch of the imagination.

... that the GOP has nurtured for lo these past 30 years to blur their singular and systematic culture of corruption and to get otherwise good people to disengage from the process.

:hi: tex...

NGU.

Do you respond? Or do you just let it go. I am sure it probably depends on the person/situation but I curious as to what you think about this.

BTW hello ClassWarrior, so nice to see you. :hi:

PS I will NGU. I saw this on a plaque the other day and thought of you. Actually it said, never ever give up...or something like that.

I had a friend describe it to me this way: she can only know what is in the news (which is untrustworthy at best) or what is told to her by one side or the other, which are both biased. So, since she can't know what is really happening for sure, she doesn't want to go around spouting opinions about any of it.

I still think opinions are valuable, even if you don't know all the facts, but I understand someone not wanting to get involved unless they're willing to devote a lot of time to research.

I've been thinking about it lately - I've been active with the Sierra Club for years now, always look for ways to conserve energy and reduce waste - but now here comes a stupid war and a stupid hurricane that jack up gas prices, and all of a sudden everyone is talking hybrid cars and mass transit. It's a little discouraging when bad policy works better (unintentionally) than good policy in accomplishing a goal.

It's a little discouraging when bad policy works better (unintentionally) than good policy in accomplishing a goal."

In a country of well-educated people, that wouldn't have to be the case.

That's why the repukes trashed education.

:kick:

I am sure you have heard this... and this is now pervasive in the country

Also we have been atomized, to the point people are either afraid of voicing their views (the fights) or will do so only among "safe people" this is another mark of a fasicst system, an atomized population

...naturally enough, _Why Americans Hate Politcs_.

http://www.powells.com/biblio/61-0743265734-0

His thesis (very shortly stated) is that liberals and conservatives are framing issues as a series of "false choices," making it impossible for politicians to solve problems, and alienating voters in the process.

The text of the book is online here:

http://print.google.com/print?id=pQMAsT7HlEsC&dq=EJ+Dionne+why+hate+politics&oi=print&pg=PA7&sig=nKFFJKmToN7GDqkNs-pveGlXYi4&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fq%3DEJ%2BDionne%2Bwhy%2Bhate%2Bpolitics%26sourceid%3Dmozilla-search%26start%3D0%26start%3D0%26ie%3Dutf-8%26oe%3Dutf-8%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official

I hear it from people who were very involved last year & this year they are totally disconnected & no longer interested in following politics. I wonder if any of them will wake up when their credit card bills are double next month or when their home heating goes up 50-70% this winter?

A few weeks ago a co-worker said that she & her husband were at a dinner where two of the people started praising bushco & the repub party. She said the rest of the group were dems, but all remained quiet. Not one person called this couple out or debated any of their points. "Better not to rock the boat," she told me. I suspect some of it is that they are not informed enough to have the confidence to call these types out on their talking points.

And therein is part of the problem. Clearly if all they are doing is listening to CNN, they do not have the ammo they need to fire back. Unfortunately, they are too comfortable to take the time to investigate & find the truth.

ARGHH!!!! :banghead:

I'm surrounded by people no longer engaged in the voting process, "why vote - it's just always more of the same."

But these are the same people (I believe) who'd return to the polls if a strong candidate came out and said things like National Healthcare, Unions, etc. In fact, give these folks a Power Point presentation with an outlined PLAN to address their REAL concerns, and I think it would be effective.

But it seems like both parties just keep wasting their time trying to figure out how to sway a smaller and smaller number of repeat voters.

and why teh environment is RIPE for either a third party or progressives and populists with a REAL populist message

the subject is Clinton's penis, but if you say one negative thing about Bush they say "Well, I don't really follow politics, so let's change the subject" - pisses me off to no end and I used to change the subject, but not any more - I just keep jabbering about how bad Bush is. hehehehe

If you talk about issues a lot of people just do not care. People with a good job really do not care. That is why they bought into the * tax loan program because they figured it benefited them.

A couple I have been friends with for decades give me "I vote and there is nothing else I can do." Well, that is not true, but they care more about the appearance of the lawn than discussing realities. My only real point to make with people is that we are a fascist country and that the two party system is the structure designed for control of the country by the wealthy.

I ask them if they know what black box voting is and say the last two elections have been stolen. I ask them on a different occasion if they know about depleted uranium. I work it in that the drug war was the original fascist tool used to destroy our rights and to create a police state. I take the long view on * and say the biggest statement I have to make about him is that he is a puppet for the fascists. The only other big statement I have to make is that the US is engaged in Iraq as part of a plan of global domination. I ask them if they know what peak oil is so that they might add it to their vocabulary along with depleted uranium, black box voting, America Inc., and fascism. The only other big statement I have to make is that we need universal health care.

But really that is all I have to say and it does not all have to be said at once. I really do not enjoy getting small and talking names and starting using words like conservative, liberal, left, and right. I wish people would work towards a true enlightenment and see the country has gone to hell and has to be taken back. The problem is "I do not care" and "There is nothing I can do about it."

But another aspect has to do with being informed because at some time people will search out someone with an answer. Like when my friends ask me about the draft put forward by a Democrat that the Republicans eventually brought to a vote to clear it from the air. If people think you have the answers or a well-informed opinion, they will ask you. And you want to know why they will ask you or someone else? It is because they do not want to be wrong. The ego that guides our decision making has one purpose and that is to come to a correct decision so that the journey through life is not so bumpy.

My take on abortion is this. If you are pro-choice you still allow a woman the right to carry a child to term. But if you are anti-choice you are for imposing your will on another person. The opposite side of that view is mandatory abortions that might come when the planet suffers from too many billions of people. Let's say you are poor and pregnant and there is a group that is anti-choice and the only path is mandatory abortion. Now how do you think the anti-choice people would take that anti-choice?

But the point is that the anti-choice people are absolutely convinced abortion is murder. There is no way for them to accept that they are wrong. The hardest thing to say in life is I am wrong because it is the ego that has already decided what is right. It is the evolutionary purpose of the ego to be right.

So it is the ego looking for truths in order to make decisions that helps us, the reality-based community. I just think that the first decision of reality starts with fascism. Agree or disagree, that is the issue we need to put before everyone's ego. The ego will only try to be right and given the correct definitions and evidence I think we would all be on the same page on something.

learned from hard lessons NOT to talk politics at work. It just doesn't help when I have to get along with someone professionally for me to have too strong an opinion about them politically.

It didn't used to be this way. Politics were just that. Something you thought about on election day. But recently some people expect you to declare yourself one way or the other, and I tend to hold my cards a bit closer to my chest. I also work in the public sector and not in a very conducive atmosphere for progressive ideas. I just pretty much keep my mouth shut and teach the kids my own way.

at least five factors:

(1)-the truly savage anti-intellectuality methodically conditioned into all public-school students (the lingering legacy of the McCarthy Era, specifically the belief that intellectuals or "eggheads" are invariably Communists or at least "Communist sympathizers");

(2)-the deliberate dumbing-down of public education, especially elimination of any courses that teach democratic principles, particularly in terms of how our governments function (public education's response to the corporate world's increasing demand for an ever-more-zomboid workforce);

(3)-the fact that understanding politics requires thought, while the population itself is deliberately discouraged from even the most rudimentary forms of thinking (a subset of (1) and (2) above);

(4)-the fact that discussion of political topics requires genuine self-expression, thereby violating the one absolute taboo of the American bourgeoisie: that even with intimate partners, social interactions remain low-maintenance and "cool," never transcending the trivial -- and above all never expressing originality or emotion;

(5)-the fact that U.S. society today is (despite its oft-repeated Big Lie of "diversity") the most oppressively conformist society in human history: this as a response to the demands imposed by corporate hiring practices, as a result of which people are terrified to disclose their views on politics (or any other subject) lest their economic prospects be jeopardized by accusations of nonconformity or individualism.

These realities are reflected in the fact that fewer than half of the eligible citizens vote -- why get involved in politics if it could cost you your job? -- despite the widespread perception the government represents only Big Business and is indifferent (or hostile) to everyone else. This alienation worsens every year. It polls as high as 60 percent among Caucasians and as high as the 90th percentile among minorities. Yet Americans are so crippled by disabilities and taboos (items 1-5 above) they are increasingly rendered powerless to defend against the forces that afflict them.

Thus the greatest contribution of 1960s feminism -- that is, the contribution that was most dangerous to the oligarchy and therefore the most wonderfully subversive -- was not feminist ideology but rather feminist method: the revolutionary notion that the personal is indeed political -- and that the first step on the path to political liberation is violating the taboo against expression of your feelings about political realities.

I overheard a recent conversation that sums the taboo up perfectly: seated at a round table with a half-dozen others, a man and a woman -- each obviously well-informed -- were having an intense political discussion, not an argument but an exchange of facts and knowledge. This went on for several minutes, impressive enough it caught the attention of my companion and I, who were seated close by at a much smaller adjacent table. In fact -- especially since I happened to be working on a story that was relevant to the conversation -- we had begun to look for an opportunity to join in. But then another woman at the big-table group suddenly interrupted: "Hey! Enough! We're here to have fun and the last thing we want is to be bummed out by you two talking politics all night."

Welcome to America. Fascism is not coming, it's already here -- and a big percentage of the public has been dumbed down to the point it's powerless to resist.

I have often had the same experience. Since the 200 election, I have become progressively more outspoken about protecting our democracy, our right to vote and about getting these fascist neocons out of power.

After November 2004, I never stopped talking about the election rigging. It made me CRAZY that people didn't react- I could not understand how someone could be complacent about our right to vote, our right to privacy, our planet, an illegal war-- all of it. But the truth is, that's how most people are- apathetic, complacent, not zoned out, etc.

Most people live in their own world and unless something hits them dead on- right in the face- like an attack or a natural disaster- they do not respond.

At first, the apathy or non-interest made me nuts. I'd become enraged at the apathy and seemingly lack of interest. How could people not want to do something? How could it be that they didn't care about these huge issues?

What I've learned is that it's not that most of them don't care- it's that the immediate events going on in their lives are already overwhelming and they are barraged with too much information. Taking on saving the country or the world is just not something they have or care to make time for and they are not able to connect these events with their daily lives. Sad but true.

For others, even those who can't stand the Bush regime, the idea of rigging the election is too much for them to handle- they just cannot fathom that anyone could be so corrupt as to do such a thing. No matter how much factual information I email them, it makes no difference. It's too big for them to get their arms around. Never mind when I bring up my belief that they knew and helped orchestrate 911- that pushes them out into left field beyond reach.

Yes it is scary because it's an indication that most people are so dulled by their overwhelm of daily life, that they cannot manage to take in more then a small amount of information. That's why so many don't vote. They just don't get it that it does matter who wins or they don't make time to try to get it.

My outrage about people who call it 'talking politics" simmers inside and occasionally does come out and it's not pretty when it does. But I've learned to curtail it as much as possible since my vehemence actually alienated some friends and family members. What we want is to create an opening so that some information can in fact, be taken in. We need to find the way in - by doing what we can to speak to them in their language, with information and facts, a few at a time so they can begin to see the bigger picture. Some may never get it- but some will- I've seen it happen.

It's beyond my comprehension that people cannot grasp the connection between decisions being made by the GOP that deeply impact our lives, our privacy, our rights, etc. But that's how it is. All we can do is continue to provide facts when there's an opening and continue to do the work we are doing to facilitate change where we can and put our passion into places where it can (we hope) make a difference.

are those who claim to be political, but when you talk politics with them it's obvious that their only sources of information are headlines and teevee news crawlers. Like they'll say, "DeLay is obviously guilty," and you respond with some details of the indictments, and they act like you just read the Dead Sea Scrolls to them in Esperanto.

At least the people who say they aren't political tacitly admit to being under-informed. I'd rather deal with them than those who have opinions based on sound bites.

people here in Canada and the US simply don't vote because basically, they don't care. Voter turnout is a disgrace.

I guess people would rather talk about a missed touchdown than real issues facing their lives.Those that do, are even more annoying because they cant pick a side.

It is very frustrating. He agrees *dumbass IS an *ass but refuses to get fired up over anything, believing it doesn't make a difference so why get his blood pressure up?

Jenn

I know someone who is a successful young accountant who owns her own home, drives a nice car, has a big deal job doing something that I don't really understand and looks from the outside like an adult. When I asked her if she was a Democrat or a Republican, she said, "Oh, I don't pay attention to any of that." HUH??? "THAT"???

Mostly I know several women who think what their husband's think. I commented last night to one woman I have known for years that I thought that Harriet Miers was an interesting choice for the SC and she looked blank. When I explained that she was Bush's personal attorney and had become White House counsel when Alberto Gonzales took over from John Ashcroft, she was surprised that Ashcroft was gone. But she will tell you in a minute that she is a devoted Republican and quotes her husband all the time. Arrgghh!

I know a lot of people that I don't get into discussing politics with because it just makes life easier, but that doesn't mean that I don't make an effort to be informed.

who are apathetic (doesn't matter who's prez, nothing will change) or vote the straight GOP ticket no matter who's running.

Those on the fence probably would have voted the dem ticket in 2004, but felt "safer" with the Bush ticket.

:mad:

by rote.

How the heck do you relate to them?