Sy Hersh: "We're Fucked." What does Sy know that we don't know?

"We're fucked"

So I was riding the train back from Boston to DC earlier today and I was listening to two Amnesty International workers at the table beside me (I was doing work in the cafe car) talking (loudly) about torture and their latest efforts, etc. One of them was essentially saying that she had given up and become totally cynical that Americans would ever care. The other tried to reassure her and explain why action was necessary. So this particular part of the conversation goes on from Wilmington to Baltimore.

At Baltimore, Sy Hersh gets on the train and sits with them at their table in the cafe car (I couldn't tell if he knew one of them or not). Anyway, after a few pleasantries, they asked him about his views on this particular question and whether there was something or someone giving him hope. Hersh replied, "We're fucked."

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Does anyone here know if Sy happens to have a particularly dry sense of humor?

:scared:

He knows that there is no possible way to win in Iraq and it will only get worse, MUCH WORSE.

He knows that the police state in the US is a complete lockdown on any effective form of dissent and that after the Neocons continue to rule this country for 3 more years there will be little left of the middle class.

can it get better?

and wonder where and why torture is ok now?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2175221

The animal that is the Bush Administration is being cornered. That is a very dangerous time for us. I hope that's not what he meant.

the corporate powers that really run the country deciding to toss * to the wolves -- maybe some of them see the bleak future that * has brought into focus...

I think I know where he's coming from.

Watch the interview on Democracy Now of October 21 (it also has interview with Ritter and Hersh) with one of the attorneys for the Guantanamo Bay detainees who are on hunger strike or google regarding how that is proceeding and then think about how Americans as a whole have responded until now.

or listen to this (all three parts)

http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/53083

http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2005/oct/video/dnB20051020a.rm

Robert Fisk of the London Independent discusses Iraq, the media and what gives him hope. During the thirty years that he has been reporting on the Middle East, Fisk has covered every major event in the region

very illuminating. :thumbsup:

are fucked because we will have US leaders facing tribunals in the future for the murders that have been committed for oil ...and power ...and private corporation profit ...it will all come out in the open even more than it has. Don't forget, Hersch helped bring Abu out in the open ...

of torture that's worse than Abu Ghraib etc.
If they ever see the light of day....."we're fucked".....he knows how bad they are.

I thought he meant 'we're fucked' as in * is about to fuck us (citizens).

He would have said something like "those pictures are really fucked up". Saying "we're fucked" says something about our current condition that he is aware of that we aren't. The pictures are old news, even if they haven't been released and most likely never will be.

the Nazi's for Auschwitz?

My God. What has Bush and the Republicans done to us?

Fear makes people give up. Support each other.

There are so many people working hard now on our side -- grassroots, media watchdogs, government types who are speaking out --

This country has come to the edge of the cliff a number of times (including the Cuban Missile Crisis) only to step back just in time --

:kick:

He speaks of the situation today as a book already written, fascism on the march.
Scary to hear him say that.:scared:
On the other hand. I am not in the mood to hand anyone this country
on a silver platter. We owe it to Rosa Parks not to give up our seat on the freedom train.

who can steer us away from this ugly course that Bush and the Republicans have put us on.

The suspense is maddening.

He cannot do it alone. We need the media to stand fast, and reject the WH talking points.
Good God, anyone can see these policies are taking this once great country into the toilet.
What may have once seemed like a good idea (to them) is NOT working.
They need to ask themselves if they want to be part of the problem, or part of the SOLUTION.

Pretty smart guys. I wonder if Hunter S. blew his brains out over it?

At least Dean is advocating staying to fight.

Isn't the time expired for when the administration was supposed to enter an appeal?

http://www.nysd.uscourts.gov/courtweb/pdf/D02NYSC/05-06267.PDF

The government is preparing a Motion For Reconsideration and the Judge has given them until Wednesday to file it. I assume the Motion will entail even further delays as the Judge considers it. One of the issues concerns additional documentary evidence sought by the plaintiffs. The CIA doesn't want to produce certain documents and maintains that they can take the position that they don't have to admit whether or not they exist.

protions of Bush WH - means that you are fucked. Just like Argentina is forever dealing with the human rights issues of the 1970s. ... Bush WH has created a situation where US will have to answer for the "plane rides" they provided to rendered innocents etc.

Oh - yes - that is the problem will all military activity and war and torture or bombs or anything. A certain amount of innocents get caught up in it - and you have to answer for that for the rest of their lives.. as you should.

men in this administration like Negroponte, supported death squads in El Salvador and now in Iraq and supported Pinochet!!!! Need I say more--we're dealing with sociopathic tendencies and if not exposed--we are looking at fascism.

hate so much - that American blindness will not be allowed to continue. In actual fact it was political/economy 101 in highschool that the US was attacking the Sadanistas wrongfully - in the 1980s - when they were the greater democrats. It was known full well to high school students all over the world. Somehow, university students, even at the Ivy League in the US - didn't understand it that way.

Internationalism will punch through to truths and the bullshit that breeds from being isolated in your golden"boy" country will be less and less.

Good for everyone if you all know history. I don't mean you - I mean if at least 60 % of your country known the bare things about history. The only thing worse than an 800 pound gorilla is a really dumb 800 pound gorilla.

Meaning the Repubs have destroyed so much already, that it may be impossible to fix?

At this point a Phyrric victory is still a victory.

Considering these nuts are TRYING to create an Apocalypse I would say that is damn worth it.

he said that our policy and the plan for perpetual chaos ( as in perpetual neocon wars) are bringing this nation to the brink.

>Has anyone heard Sy Hersh talk about Talafar on CSPAN? We resumed bombing in Iraq while the US was concerned with Katrina.

“Up to 5,000 families fled their homes in Talafar when fighting between Coalition forces and insurgents started earlier this month. "We are talking 20-25,000 people," Jette Soerensen, spokesperson for the International Committee of the Red Cross in Geneva (ICRC), told IRIN on Saturday. <

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2179220&mesg_id=2179220

That Bush's martial law hints are something to be implemented when the heat gets to be too much...if ever. Question is-how much of the military and general population will go along with it? I don't want to find out. Perhaps Katrina was a test run.

...the brilliant editor of Harpers Magazine who seems to have given up hope in the last few months that America will be able to right itself. His October essay on fascism in America was breathtaking. I urge you all to go find it.

We're in the middle of a very painful lesson, one that will end with us losing the position we've held for so long and particularly ever since the end of WWII. That doesn't mean we can't survive as a country, or as a democracy, or even become better in some ways. happens to the best of empires. look at Great Britain. i for one would much rather live there now than to have lived there before the "sun set."

it doesn't mean we won't flame out either, of course. it's up to us. it'll depend on how much we have invested in our collective ego, as opposed to the truly good things that make up our national identity, and are still there under all the rubble.

i am now wanting the progressive religious folks to start talking about the sin of *pride,* besides the talk that needs to happen about the "morality" of stealing from the poor, sick and elderly to fatten the super-rich. it seems apt.

as for Lapham and so on: well, nothing lasts forever, for better or for worse. the only constant is change. the sooner we can accept that major upheavals are inevitable and imminent, the better equipped we'll be to, if not steer them, at least ride them out and survive to turn in a better direction at the end of it.