Clinton to Dems: Don't Fear Tough Issues

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1263198

I'm getting so tired of the dems senators and reps missing so many chances to rip the GOP for their extraordinary corruption, cronysm and lies....

Enough is enough and I can't stand one more senator, congresman, or rep playing the "step carefully" politics.

I am ready to support an independent with the guts to demand accountability for the missery this admin is causing to us and the world.

We need an independent now. We need someone that no longer needs to "step carefully" because his/her own complicity could be exposed by his/her stand up against this corruption...

with statements like this if he didn't do things like falling all over himself excusing the chimps lack of performance in the Katrina clusterfuck. It wouldn't hurt to see a little spine out of him either.

Howard Dean was attacking Repukes relentlessly while Billy Boy Clinton urged Wes Clark to enter the Dem Prez race to help derail Dean's campaign. When that didn't work Clinton called Iowa Dems to urge them to not support Dean because Dean supported Civil Unions.

Clinton is full of himself and it only gets worse as he ages.

if he hadn't run away from the fights over gays in the military, national health care, free trade.....

:eyes:

How many more years of Republican rule do YOU want?

Clinton is right - Dems have to step up, but it's ridiculous to suggest that we go the "inde" route again because not only can't an inde win, but they can damage a person who actually may beat this junta.

Screw the "we need an independent" BS. We need a DEMOCRAT, and one who will do what Bill Clinton and anyone with a brain has suggested - stand up, be heard, tell the dang truth.

now and no a single one has taken the many oppties. handed to them in a silver plate to stand up to this corruption. How long do they expect our support would last?

How many dissapointments can we put up with before loosing total faith in the dems? How long do they expect us to suffer for their lack of back bone? For how long are they going to make us wait to see any strong leadership?

WHERE are they as a unity or as a leading force when there has been five years of total chaos and self-centered interest from this corrupted admin?

I want the surplus back, I want the social services effectively funded, I want corporate America to be made accountable for the damage they've made to US stockholders, I wand jobs and effective goverment management. I want to see my taxes earned with hard work delivering what I have been promissed. I want to stop feeling embarrased because the world thinks they no longer need the ugly US.

Where is that dem leader to lead us to that?

John Conyers
Barbara Boxer
Howard Dean
Wesley Clark
The entire CBC!
Dennis Kucinich
Ted Kennedy
Howard Dean

and on and on and on.

If you want the surplus back, if you want sanity back, VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT!

look, look how many are really rallying behind them when so much is taking place that should make them have an outstanding followship...the reason is because all those speeches are good enough and their actions aren't bringing the parties together. The need each other and a strong strategy and we aren't seeing it. That's all I'm saying, we aren't feeling it we aren't seeing it and the longer that takes the more difficult it's going to get for us not to question what they are or aren't delivering...

Look for how long they have been talking. There isn't a choice, but to vote democratic, and I know that, but I wish my friends and I were voting because we have been swept away by who they are and how well they have earned my vote. I wish any of them would make us feel like Robert K. Jr. does when he speaks about the environment and the state of the country, but none of them raises such thing.

And yes, I'll obviously vote for a democrat, regardless. just want more than that...

battles at the same time.

We don't need independent candidates who say the same thing many Democrats do. What we DO need is a better strategy. We don't need to divide progressives. We need to EDUCATE VOTERS on the difference between the two party's. We need Dems to be better organized. We need to do a better job at getting our message out. We need to have a think tank that "markets" our POV weekly. We don't need to leave the party.

independent and I see why so many of us exists. and we are dissapointed that the dems haven't convinced us to formally become party members...We need strategy, that I mentioned in my previous post, and we need everything you list, but we have needed it for five years, how long do dems want us to wait to give us that leadership and strategy you speak of? How much time do they need to grow that and the back bone? And, that is exactly the fault I'm pointing out that is making me so furious, FIGHTING THE SAME BATTLE AT THE SAME TIME. There is a single battle to fight today, 'cause all of the possible fights combined today lead to one: Get this admin out, this admin is giving all the amunitions to do so.

Dean just took over the DNC, we are building what we need, it is prudent to stay and fight. Hang on!

Peace

what I am saying is that enough waiting. Dean hasn't just joined the party and my questions therefore stand, how long do we need to wait for them to leverage the multiple amunitions this admin has giving dems to make it accountable?

and he isn't the only one, look at how many centuries combined exist in the dems senators, reps and congrespeople...it's irrelevant that dean just took over. Many of these people are career politicians...it is not like they are learning for the first time any of what needs to be done.

Don't mean this negativelly, just that enough time and oppties have passed and still no leadership in sight.

you don't intervene. That is the tack some Dems are taking. However, both Reid and Kerry issued a powerful statements this week renouncing this admin and taking responsibility for trusting them initially. It's a MYTH the Democrats aren't speaking out, they are simply not getting the same attention that the MSM give to Republicans.

We're building this movement via Dean, ARR, the blogs, DU and other places, it's coming together - stick around you'll be glad you did.

:hi:

1. Do you think that MLK waited for the media to catch up and that it was the media that gave him the fantastic speacheds and conviction to move the masses?

2. Do you think the poor families in this country and those of us that are loosing insurance and good jobs can easily accept the No intervention comment you make? I can. If I have to keep waiting for the Hang yourself game, I'll have to live w/o insurance for a long time 'cause I can afford bying it myself and if gas prices don't come down, I won't be able to afford much enterteinment whatsoever. How long you want me to wait before I end up making much less than I make and would for the first time in decades depend on cr. card to make ends meet.

3. How long has this movement been building up? how much longer before it gets built up? How many more corruption being exposed will be required for this movement to deliver?

4. Where did I say I wasn't hanging in there and stiking around? Where do you think I could go? Where is that leadership that will prevent me from becoming another casualty of this admin? My point is I have no place to turn so I want to demand action from this dems party before all of us have no hope whatsover 'cause another three years will make me a poor person.

5. It is making no progress to have all these dems speak up? Kerry takes this long to say "mislead" WTF, misled? Dean' scream got us to another let down? The many dollars we gave him delivered us a historical scream? And you want me to keep giving him when I can pay my insurance?

I want and demand action now that this admin and fitz has giving more that an open door. that's my point. I can barely wait to keep from becoming another casualty or from seeing so many hard working family falling into the Federal poverty level where two and more children can get any chance to a good future.

Sorry, but your comment did not convince me whatsoever that I shouldn't demand them to deliver what they promissed me when I voted for them. I can't wait for this admin to hang itself because it could take another year, two or three and in that time they could get the extreme evangelicals back on track. I cannot afford that any longer and I'm writing to all of them and calling both parties to demand actions.. I have lost too much and see too many social services being dismantled and now so many people dying for nothing.

How many more innocent lives you suggest should be lost while we wait for those actions you speak of Dean building?

Can you answer any of these questions w/facts and not rethoric hope?

That's my point. We need to start demanding actions and deliveries for the votes we were asked to give....

1. Do you think that we have the same media we had in the days of MLK?

2. Democrats are intervening, I've pointed that out. I also asked you to consider who owns the media.

3. What? The Democratic Party is an established Party, and we needen't wait for change if we elect them.

4. What do you expect Democrats to do when they are the minority party? And, why on earth would we want to take the chance that they remain so?

5. What? Dean scream? If you bought that, I question your sincerity. Dean is the perfect example of the media I'm trying to educate you about.

You are not going to get where you wish if you don't support the opposition to oppression.

DEMOCRATS ARE SPEAKING OUT. Check the Conyers blog, the Boxer blog, the DNC blog for starters.

Do you think there is a viable/B] alternative to the Democratic Party?

That's my point. We need to start demanding actions and deliveries for the votes we were asked to give....

When is the last time you contacted the DNC or your local congress/senate to specifically ask for XY or Z?

And, share with me SPECIFICALLY what you want the party to do. You said they must "speak out" I've demonstrated that they have. What next?

ltrs. gues what I got from most of the emails? std. we appreciate your comment automated answer. My blood is still boilint...I signed all the requests I have gotten from conyers, moveon, and email from friends since before 2000 elections...I'm still tired of waiting and that is something your comments can't changed.


Don't take this personally please.

However, be thankful for Conyers and Moveon and the others who are fighting the fight you seem not to acknowledge.

Further call people if you must. I've received some personal letters when I ask about an issue that has not been widely addressed.

Peace out.

It is not that I'm not thankful, that I want to quit, that I don't hear their speeches, that I have not done anything (i put about 60 hrs. per month to give back to our communities) it is not that I don't see any dems doing something.

IT is that I'M TIRED OF WAITING FOR RESULTS FROM ALL THIS ABOVE. I'm tired of giving my vote and supporting them. I'm tired of seeing families fall further into poverty. I AM TIRED OF LISTENING TO THE SPEECHES AND NOTHING COMING OUT OF IT> I"M TIRED OF GIVING MY SIGNATURE< WRITING LETTERS< DEMANDING ACTION and seeing so many congressmen and politicians of all source afraid of acting because they have so much to hide....TIRED...REAL tired.

on edit: and of seeing the rich getting richer. and I know for a fact I'm not the only one.

And, they won't be in power if we don't fight from within the party.

The minority party can not accomplish much. What your situation illustrates is the importance of supporting Democrats as you would not be in this sitation with a President Gore.

I am sorry that you are hurting right how. Many of us are, but if we hang tight and stick around things will improve - we have to change administrations first however.

eom

:eyes:

need. Mostly in IT, but also in several other industries..

their silence as much if not more than fear of religious fanatics.

What Democrats specifically do you speak of and which corporations are you talking about?

which has been pretty well documented to be corporate whoring.

I am getting scared about how much is costing my family to wait. We lost our insurance from the companies we work for and it costs us about $700 per month just to insure two of us for basic insurance, forget dental and vision. This is the first time in my adult life that I face this challenge and this amount would actually deplete our savings and if this were to keep up for a year, I will be facing a challenge I haven't faced and that is very dissapointing living in a first world country.


I see this in my volunteer jobs and it is getting to the point that I'm seeing professionals walking into free clinics because they have no alternative, but have never depended on the system to take care of their kids needs and these are white, educated people who get furious when I have to tell them we can service them because they don't meet the requirements for the free services. Can you believe I have seen engineers unable to pay $60 to get seen by a walk in clinic?

You should be cautious before you abandon the party because you'll wait till hell freezes over before Republicans help you out and/or an independent candidate gets elected.

Want healthcare? Support a Democrat.

they have it set up like Walmart--the majority of instructors are forced to take part time jobs, patch together a couple of different districts to make a full time living, and usually aren't offered health insurance at any.

I finally got a job in a district that offers coverage to part timers, but if I had a family, they wouldn't be covered.

This is what I get for getting my masters degree and going into education.

I don't want to give up my job and become a corporate drone, but I shouldn't be punished for choosing this career--especially by a government employer.

and I don't know if I would always put Wes Clark in that bunch--he often follows that "better war" talking point, like we could have done a kinder gentler job of killing Iraqis, stealing their oil, and pursuing control of the natural resources in Asia without getting a similar response to the Bush ham-handed version.

They've all spoken out.

But, I'd be interesed in hearing what your candidate has had to say?

I think Howard Dean is great, but his honesty on Iraq has gone down since he moved to the DNC chair.

If Kerry and Reid outlined the real reasons we went into Iraq, it would help galvanize public opinion to get us out, and would immunize public opinion against the sales pitch for wars in Iran and Venezuela.

I just want them to stop talking to us like fucking retards.

I will say we need to start saying PNAC as often as possible however.

I have the feeling that the last paragraph sum it up fairly clearly.

I am sure Clark and Dean may have said similar things, but I dont have the references.

http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/cfm/record.cfm?id=242093

The guy often seems incapable of getting the gist of the issue in a one liner or at least in the title of his speech.

I remember reading this before.

If he had been this blunt and frankly manly during the debates, he could have reduced Bush to the simpering coke-head sack of shit he is. Instead, Kerry was deferential to the point of being servile and the closest he came to saying anything like this was wondering whether the 14 permanent bases we're building in Iraq might be inspiring the insurgency (if I remember correctly).

I am hoping that Iran-Contra, BCCI, 1971 Kerry is still in there and he is playing some kind of strategic poker with these corporate assholes.

But I can't believe or rely on that just on faith and the occasional good speech.

see things call as they are...Misled????that is what the families get told? Misled? the families have more guts to say their kids died for a lie than anyone in this goverment.

amunizations given by the current admin. We have supported them for over five years now....When are we going to see results from their "leadership" when this admin is so strongly giving them ways?

His Iraq speech was really good.

doing a good job? I want him to act aggresiely to take on this corrupted goverment, I would then even volunteer to get him elected if he ran.

He has been doing that since 1971, then under Reagan and Bush I, when he was in the Senate (Iran Contra and BCCI for example).

Sure, he has had some votes I disagree with, but he has certainly been very active during all these years concerning government corruption.

that gets us out of it before it destroy the little that we have left. I just don't want another 4 decades of this type of action because we need more today due to the multiple impacts we are experiencing that are extremelly negative to all of us.

ON edit: got the election stolen, which means the dems got the election stolen twice.

Good.

frustration on how little so much "work" has delivered.

BCCI documents to be revealed as Kerry was pushing for, because Alan Greenspan told Clinton to keep them closed.

No Bush would ever have been allowed near the WH again if BCCI documents were revealed. And 9-11 and the invasion of Iraq would never have happened.

also pushed and I don't recall that happening...why couldn't Kerry get everyone's pushing for this? why hasn't him or anyone being able to rally most behind him/her?

he wanted to govern.

Kerry was used to other Dems cowering from the really big battles and was used to them not helping.

Kerry also ended up using what he learned to write a book about the growing problem of internaltional terrorism and its funding. It was published in 97 and no one would talk about it.

When Clinton took office, Kerry also threw himself into advocating for gays to serve openly in the military.

We all know how courageously Clinton handled that one, too.

BTW...Clinton was ABLE to be elected thanks to Kerry's work exposing the corruption in the Bush1 WH that Clinton then allowed to remain hidden from the public.

Had there been no constant IranContra and BCCI stories in the headlines, would Bush1 have lost in 92?

politicians were comfortable being. He DID fight against the corruption and the perversion of our government - for which you weakly credit him. He fought using his Senate committee and every other connection he had. I assume he would have LOVED to have the support of other politicians, it would have made it easier for him.

If your issue is corruption, you should be criticizing those who neither fought it themselves (which would take genuine courage and the willinness to risk their career) nor supported Kerry when he did. The surprise to me is that John Kerry - after fighting the dark side of America for decades was able to win the nomination and make a very convincing run for President against a very stacked deck.

acted aggressively to take on government corruption - more than any other politician I can think of. He spent several years investigating the contra/drug scandal - when no one else wanted to investigate either the contras or the fact that our government allowed drugs into this country; then he spent more years investigating drug trafficing in Central America getting most of the evidence on Panama's Noriega; that investigation led him to look at money laundering which he pursued for many years finally resulting in closing down BCCI.

BCCI was the terrorist bank. It was through BCCI that Pakistan financed its bomb. When Kerry's committee was closed down, he wrote a list of open issues - topping them was investigation of whether Khan would sell this technology. If Clinton would have backed Kerry on this, the world might have been better off.

Have you read any of the SFRC sessions with Dr. Rice - I think her 2 least favorite words might be, "Senator Kerry". He very politely asks tougher questions than anyone.

Until I hear some leading Democrats go after the real reason the Bushies went into Iraq, I can only conclude that they support those reasons and would invade a country in the future for similar ones.

assuming it's the Iraq speech: there are excepts on the front page of Johnkerry.com and the prepared speech is on:

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=952

Up thread Mass gave you the energy speech excerpt that deals with oil.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2195591&mesg_id=2196475

stuff that doesn't fit the story they want to tell--the Bush one about one legged boogeymen causing all the trouble in Iraq.

than John Kerry has.

If I really wanted a good laugh I'd ask you to name two.

Kerry is a Dem Prez 2004 loser. He could not defeat the worse president in US history. Kerry sucked on the campaign trail and that's why he didn't get into the White House as First Resident and never will.

against Kerry and promote it lustily.


That's your perogastive....but please don't expect that others don't deserve the truth. MediaMatters and FAIR recognized the media spin against Kerry, just as they recognize how the media spins against Dean since Iowa.

And Kerry won his matchup against Bush DECISIVELY.

The DNC was outgunned by the RNC spin machine.

The leftleaning and objective press got their asses handed to them by on a daily basis by the RW message machine that the media allowed to dominate the airwaves.

Was the media and Cspan right that Free Republic was a legitimate news source while DU was a radical leftist site?

And please name the Dem who fought the media back SUCCESSFULLY during the campaign.

And...BTW....if more media and regular people had recognized the import of IranContra and BCCI to the big stories of today, 9-11 and Iraq, we would have a more informed electorate who could see the prescience and capabilities of a man like Kerry. Men like Kerry, who fought to investigate and expose more government corruption than any other lawmaker in modern history would be feted and revered instead of the adulation and deference of the media that is prevalent today for the scum that promotes corruption.

Did YOU spread the truth or did you spread the media spin? How did YOU do your job last year?

House.

Kerry lost to the worse president in US history. Bush is only good at campaigning, not debating or governing.

Kerry may be good in the senate, but his Prez campaign style sucked. I found him boring. Even my brother in Florida wondered if Kerry was taking the 2004 campaign seriously. Windsurfing in Nantucket when he should have been campaigning was a sure sign that Kerry underestimated Bush. Kerry seemed uninterested it taking on Bush and underestimated the Repuke machine. That's why I refused to donate time or money to his campaign and considering that Kerry had $10-12 million left over from the 2004 GE, I'm very glad that I refused to donate my hard earned money to this aristocrat's campaign. That slush fund of Kerry's proves that he knew that he was going to lose to Bush in 2004 before the election date.

Oh, the DNC in 2004 had raised more money than the RNC, so the DNC had the cash to battle the RW spin machine, but guess Kerry and McAwful hadn't a clue what to do about it.

If Bush had done the better job campaigning, he wouldn't have needed his spin machine working the corporate media 24/7 with their lies and the swiftvets.

If Bush had done the better job campaigning, he wouldn't have needed widescale voter suppression and machine fraud to pad his vote total.

Kerry still deserves credit for what he has done. I think Kerry was fantastic on the campaign trail and with NORMAL press coverage, his optimism, enthusiasm and the excitement of his huge rallies would have led to a successfull result.

Do you think that Clark shouldn't talk of being head of NATO? - those days are long gone too. Do you think Dean should not talk of 12 years as Governor of VT? - those days are long gone. Do you think Al Gore can't speak about his Senate career, Earth in the Balance, or being VP? - those days are long gone. Or, is it only Kerry who deserves no credit for his past. (Also, consider that Kerry took on these important issues that wouldn't (and didn't) make him popular and had a huge down side.

I know (from your posts) that you don't want Kerry to run in 2008 - which is fine, fair and totally reasonable - but there is no reason to diminish his real accomplishments. Those accomplishments, which say a lot about his character and his values - left him with powerful enemies. He could have used his brilliance, creativity, and eloquence on more traditional issues and he might have been President years ago. He chose to do these things because he thought they needed to be done - and even as a 27 year old his answer to Safer showed he knew it could keep him from being President.

It may well be that Kerry's role in history may be to have been an homest, noble man who spoke the truth on Vietnam; fought the very popular Reagan to protest drugs cynically allowed in the US, right wing thugs in Central America and the US giving weapons to Iran while also (overtly) giving them to Iraq; then being one of the first men to seriously take on the non-state terrorist organizations. He is now out front on Iraq - when DU aside - there is a big career risk to this: note Hillary's silence. Kerry demanded the investigation on manipulation of intelligence (months before those asking this weekend) and has the most detailed plan for getting out of Iraq.

There are senators that have stepped up to the plates these last few months. They have been marginalized and ignored.

Clinton himself has spent the last few months telling people to be quiet and patient and not push hot-button issues too much.

What is it? Does he see that potential opponents to his wife are stepping up to the plate?

It's the pot calling the kettle black. Clinton hasn't said jack about the war lies for example.

He was a great President, but he's "played it safe" on various issues himself. I do think he may be talking more about speaking out about lasting "issues" then political opportunism, so to speak, however it all counts.

for pushing Bush's strategy?

Going back to memory bank, I remember how excited we all were when the final report about Iraq's WMD was coming out right before the election. The result was a body blow to bush. So who calls up Larry King's show and after a short chortle says: "Well Larry, I believed that there were WMD..." Yes, it was Bill Clinton chiming in at a crucial moment. The following week the MSM is quoted it or played the clip endlessly, thus letting bush off the hook. Balloon--pop!

Since then Clinton has said that he thought the inspectors needed more time, but funny how he didn't bother to call Larry King about that.

Look, I accept Clinton as Clinton. He is known for being a super "politician." Great. He kept the wingnutz out of power for 8 years. Nevertheless, he failed to build the base or advance a progressive agenda. He stayed in office, and for that I thank him.

There are many Democrats who speak out. My representative from my rather red district is a good example of someone whose name is always signed on Conyer's list of supporters. The problem is with the so-called "stars" of their little club.

When I read this latest Clinton statement, I took it as a new move in Hillary's campaign. That's all.

.

Every single time we've had Bush backed into a corner, Clinton has come along and literally shoved us aside to let Bush back out. He needs to take his place along side the rest of the ex-Presidents and go work on AIDS and global poverty.

Time to play some real hardball people!!!

""If you don't want to fight for the future and you can't figure out how to beat these people then find something else to do.""

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1263198

like he was too DLC as he was saying we have to be fiscally conservative and that liberals supported the chimps pres. drug program which I don't believe they did. We are fiscally conservative and it's the pugs that waste all the money. He sort of contradicted himself because after he said his Administration had such a large surplus he went into the we must be conservative thing. I think his administration showed without question who is conservative, but without harming the environment and education and leaving people to live in gross poverty.

I know the media did a bad job covering Kerry and the other Democrats in the last few years - but that Clinton said this is horrible.

Kerry talked about how the plan was bad for most people and how it gave a huge amount of money to the HMOs and the drug companies. He also criticized that the bill forbade medicare from negociating discount prices as the VA and large insuarance comapies too - this is from memory because I heard it on every CSPAN carried Kerry rally I saw.

It is also likely that Dean, Gepheart, Edwards etc also criticized this plan. (I only remember a Gep/Dean argument over the way Medicare was handled in VT - if there was a huge difference it would have been a major issue in the primary.

This really makes a mockery of his fight back rhetoric - this in addition to his attempt to make Iraq bi-partisan by being lock step with Bush.

for 8 years. please go away bill clinton.

He was a half ass decent REPUBLICAN President.

Dems to Clinton = Keep your pants ZIPPED and kindly STFU!