Ohio Election Returns Thread

Post election results here.

Live Election Results:

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/Results/RaceSummary.aspx

For those of us not in Ohio, I'm sure most of us don't know what each one is and they're not described on the site.

Thanks!

Issue #2: Allows all Ohioans to vote by mail.

Issue #3: Lowers campaign contribution caps.

Issue #4: Puts an independant commission in charge of drawing legislative districts.

Issue #5: Puts a bi-partisan board of supervisors in charge of elections instead of partisan officials (Blackwell).

What was Issue #1?

here's a link to the RON (Reform Ohio Now) website:

http://tinyurl.com/d6wds

longer.

Wouldn't it just be better for us Dems to win the Secretary of State job then creating some new unelected board?

$1.35 billion in bonds issued over 10 years to continue a public works program that helps local governments pay for roads and other projects.

$500 million in bonds issued over seven years for Gov. Taft's Third Frontier project.

$150 million in bonds issued over seven years to prepare sites for business and industrial expansion.

I'm predicting a MASSIVE loss for Dems. Maybe after this they will take the VAPOR VOTE seriously!!!!!!

Saves us searching

Thanks!

You should have warned about Blackwell in the upper left hand corner

issues 2-5.

See Skinner's link in the first post.

I'm feeling sick.

it very early.

I know it doesn't look great but the VA results were all over the place until you get to about 30 40 % of the vote.

This is making me crazy, but I realize it's early . . .

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

very interesting...

these counties have sizeable cities (akron,columbus, cleveland,canton) and should help the issues

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/Results/CountyBreakdown.aspx?issuenum=2

Of the first 30 people I could reach, 17 said they would vote 'yes'; 8 declined to tell me how they were going to vote; 4 were undecided; and only 1 person said she was going to vote 'no'.

I had extended conversations with several people -- one older woman told me that all of the ladies she knew were going to vote 'yes'.

If Franklin does not come in at nearly 80% yes on at least Issue 2 - the most popular - I will know the J. Kenneth Blacksick has been busy at work in his office with his central tabulator.

:nuke:

this past weekend; told both callers they had my vote -- and they did.

Mine and almost everyone I know. I'm sick . . .

Yep.

I am so sorry -- we have to mourn, and rage, investigate and act.

The road is long.

:grouphug:

These diffs will narrow -- but...

State Issue 2 - Vote By Mail
No 372,134 62.30%
Yes 225,220 37.70%

State Issue 3 - Limit campaign contributions by individuals
No 388,887 65.58%
Yes 204,141 34.42%

State Issue 4 - Have citizens instead of legislators draw districts
No 405,177 68.74%
Yes 184,290 31.26%

State Issue 5 - Put Bipartisan board in charge of state elections
No 401,984 69.01%
Yes 180,529 30.99%

HAL responded "No, No I do NOT want to be turned off".

We return now to your scheduled programming...

When the margin of NO votes is in the 60% range, it's not Diebold. It's the voters. There was very low turnout in Ohio and the southwestern part of Ohio is very conservative. Our governor and Secretary of State are from this part of Ohio.

And not all of the counties are on Diebold machines. My county is still on paper ballots and issues 2-5 is going down in flames here.

n/t

against voting by mail and bi-partisan election boards? These things seem reasonable, and like they would benefit everyone. What's your take? I'm in AHNOLD-land, so I am unsure as to what the local sentiment is out in Ohio there on these issues. What have people been saying?

nonstop in Cinci-Dayton area.

The message actually said "Fight corruption in Ohio - vote no on 2-5"

they were counting on nobody actually reading the measures.

They were effective.

And you are right, so many people don't really understand the measures - they can be quite confusing. I'm not sure how they made voting by mail, and bipartisan election boards look "corrupt", but they find a way somehow, don't they?

Over in CA we have the prop 78 & 79 deal regarding prescription drug discounts. Through some clever subtle wording, 78 benefits the drug companies, and 79, the consumer. The GOP is twisting it around to make it look the other way in the ads.

It could be Diebold if the no votes are in the 60% or 70% or 80% range.

It is NOT true that if enough people vote 'yes' then Diebold/GOP cannot overcome the gap. in the 'old world' does the margin of the 'win' matter. It is just as easy to flip a result from 30/70 to 70/30 as it is to change results from 48/52 to 52/48.

Finally - the problem is not just touch screen machines. Touch screen and paper ballot votes all go through 'central tabulators' - these central tabulators are PC's that run Microsoft Access and the Ohio Secretary of State had one on his desk on Election Day 2004. The SOS's central tabulator not only received votes -- he could log on and change vote tallies coming in from the precincts (in case 'corrections' needed to be made).

Please go watch Votergate the movie -- see Bev Harris show Howard Dean how to hack into the Microsoft Access files and change the results of an election. This part of the video is about 1/2 way through the 30 minute video <http://www.votergate.tv/>

So - how do you explain that statewide - yesterday - over 60% of people surveyed were going to vote YES on Issue #2 - but that now the 'vote count' is flipped? I could believe that issues 4 & 5 might not pass - the margins were not large yesterday - but #2 was HOT.

If you don't want to spend hours and days and weeks reading about central tabulators and Trojan Horse software and remote sensors in the Optech Eagles - fine.

Your "hate to break it to you" post indicates that you don't know about all of this stuff - but many of us do.

Hey, Ohio could flip - maybe #2 will pass. Whatever happens, this issue is far, far, far from over. The 10/21/05 GAO Report makes clear that everything I suspected about the systems is true and then some.

I don't know where the hell you got the idea that I don't want to spend hours, days and weeks reading about something, since I never brought it up.

If you want to blame Diebold for the issues going down, go ahead. The Democratic Party didn't do much to push people to vote for issues 2-5. Many people were confused about whether the issues were good or bad because of all the pro and con commercials and op-eds. There was very low turnout. Low turnout always favors republicans and republican issues.

But, go ahead and yell, "DIEBOLD!!"

Many people were confused about the issues - but many people were clear.

The poll results RON reported yesterday indicated 68% of the people surveyed supported Issue #2. It is just as easy for them to change 68% yes to 68% no as it is for them to change 52% yes to 52% no -- and they already have a population ready to explain away any appearances of irregularities - the Dems didn't do much; the Repubs put more money into commercials; the importance of the issues was explained well; turnout was low.

I worked the phonebank for RON over the weekend - of the 40+ people I was able to reach -- all but 2 told me that they had already voted or would be voting. Maybe they were 'people pleasing' - but why do they give a shit about what a phonebank person from the group they never heard about had to say?

In a court we consider motivation, opportunity, and patterns of past behavior of the accused. Ohio is 3-for-3 on these items in terms of cheating in elections.

We can blame the machines all we like but I ~suspect~ the vote totals in the paper ballot areas will be in line with the diebold districts. I loved the ideas of all the reform measures but some of the details were soddy.

I don't watch much TV so I can't speak to any anti 2-5 attack adds but I know the most prevalent anti 2-5 radio spot I recall was read by our local Democratic party chairman.

ballots or Diebold machines! why bother to rig the voting machines when it's so easy to rig the tablulator and move a lot of votes with one fell swoop?

spent tons of money with deceptive adds. I heard may people say they were voting against them because they didn't understand them. They had them in the newspaper a couple days ago and they covered several pages. My county is heavily Democratic and we have punch cards not Diebold machines and they went down in flames.

If people didn't understand them, why did polls show that these issues had over 60% support? If people thought they promoted "corruption," you'd think the polls would show the same bad results as the voting. Yet the polls showed support. Maybe people were polled before the whole ad blitz?

No keeps gaining. It's unreal. All the polls showed 2 and 3 passing, and they're failing.

I'm calling BS on this. Damn Diebold.

This sucks. The whole freaking thing. If just Issue #2 would pass that would give us some leverage - encourage everyone to vote by mail so that there is a paper trail. Is Issue #5 would pass it would dramatically reduce Blacksick's power. #3 and #4 are good - but my focus was on 2 & 5.

Ohio Democratic Party remained silent on RON. In fact some of its leaders worked actively to oppose RON.

the below is from
http://www.OhioHonestElections.org

Update: In the middle of all the Republican corruption scandals all of the RON reforms are losing badly. All the votes are not in yet but it does not look like things will improve. These results should put to rest the idea that sitting back and doing nothing (are you listening Ohio Democratic Party?), in the hopes that the corruption scandals will win elections are the way to go. It is time for bold new leadership. This is what election night 2008 will feel like unless major changes are made.

I have made some minor changes to the OHEC post below to make the links work but this is a good history lesson:

"Update: A little history lesson. This is the second election reform measure to have miserably failed in Ohio. We have a page which discusses the pre-RON election reform campaign and why it failed.

http://www.ohiohonestelections.org/index.php?p=election-reform-referendum

A Cleveland newspaper also explained what happened in the Pre-RON effort.
http://www.clevescene.com/issues/2005-04-13/news/news.html

Do you see any similarities on why both efforts failed?"

That Cleveland article was right on target.

We need changes in the Ohio Democratic Party. I know the Hamilton County Democratic Party is pathetic down here.

fail to investigate election fraud - then you handicap us all in future.

ODP has also failed in investigating Election Fraud as well as in providing directives to the counties on new election machines.

The grassroots in Ohio have had to fight all by themselves without ODP assistance.

The bottom line is that ODP is responsible for protecting Ohio Democratic voters and they have failed. They also do not know how to run elections. They also sabotage referenda they do not like.

Yes, I put it all squarely on the lap of ODP. ODP needs to not only run elections properly but also to protect Democratic voters from election fraud.

my emails started two months ago: a call to the local party office and two emails to RON, saying I'm ready to volunteer.

I never once got a response, other than some sporadic mass emails asking for cash. I obliged, but I was ready to canvas, coordinate, call, pepper the landscape with signs, posters, flyers, greeting cards - and whatever.

TWO NIGHTS before the election, RON sent a special mailer out asking when people were available to volunteer. I checked the boxes and eagerly awaited my phone list and/or further instructions.

Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch.

Earlier I said it was the deceptive ads from Taft-well's office that killed the bills. But you're right - it was every bit as much our own damn fault.

Both parties run based on big "soft money" donations.

Poorly conceived and poorly run. Its what happens when people who don't do their research take a good issue and use it to raise money.

It was a huge, expensive mistake, run by a lot of unemployed Dems and political consultants - people who were not in touch with the real world and had little experience in developing election reform policy and no experience in running a good issues campaign.

The intiative failed, but a lot of people got rich from it, so I'm sure they're happy.

Lets learn from our mistakes and move on.

for verification? Are these the Diebolds that prints a quick ATM receipt but no capabilities for elections?

If so? where's the logic?

screw Ohio....everytime I think people are getting some sense...

Issue #1:
Poll: 53% YES, 27% NO, 20% Don't Know
Actual: 53.7% YES, 46.3% NO

Issue #2:
Poll: 59% YES, 33% NO, 9% Don't Know
Actual: 35.7% YES, 64.3% NO

Issue #3:
Poll: 61% YES, 25% NO, 14% Don't Know
Actual: 32% YES, 68% NO

Issue #4:
Poll: 31% YES, 45% NO, 25% Don't Know
Actual: 29% YES, 71% NO

Issue #5:
Poll: 41% YES, 43% NO, 16% Don't Know
Actual: 28.8% YES, 71.2% NO


Poll Link:
http://www.dispatch.com/election.php?story=dispatch/2005/11/06/20051106-A4-03.html

Actual Link:
http://www.sos.state.oh.us/Results/RaceSummary.aspx

Funny how the poll was accurate in Issue#1 and TOTALLY off for the election reform issues 2 thru 5, huh? :shrug:

:shrug:

more politically active, or more informed about these issues? It seems like the people who didn't know much about the "Reforms" would be the least likely to vote. Maybe Republicans somehow managed to turn out the vote here?

IMHO...that Issue puts the taxpayer in debt so to give Big Biz lots and lots of $$$$$.

But Issues 2 thru 5...the polling was WAY OFF.....just like Georgia '02.

So people in Ohio are faced with either:

1. Rigged Election by Blackwell. This is IMHO very possible.

2. People in Ohio are dumb as dirt and did as they were told by Big Biz (huge amount of money spent on ads that were completely deceptive) and Big Religion.

3. The Democratic Party DID NOTHING to help RON efforts. That I know is a FACT...not an opinion. Many Dems think the tide is going to turn and we will be able to Redistrict in our favor. As for Blackwell..he has done his damage and is history...the Dems will elect ex-Judge Brunner (an expert in Election Law) who is FABULOUS....but IMHO, there are a lot of 'ifs.'

4. A combination of the above....but what bugs me is Issue 2 and 3 and how well they were polling and then to go down in defeat just like 4 and 5. Rather stinky....

I think I agree with a poster above....screw Ohio. I HAVE GOT TO GET OUT OF HERE BEFORE I HURT SOMEONE!!!! Ohio is annoying.

I wonder if it's because volunteers were given lists of supporters to call, and not necessarily random samplings... they would be knowledgable of the issues and answer truthfully about 1-5, and even among them there were a few still unsure how they would vote... add to that the target marketing of Rethug ads (say during Nascar or Football or Limpballs) and slight tweaking of results through tabulators... really you can't expect the rethugs to just do one thing to disenfranchise... they have many evil ways... but again i'd ask... where did RON get its phone lists?

they are supposed to be... but without confirmation, we don't know. I used to work for a non-profit and we bought phone lists from compilers... often people who had contributed to some other worthy cause. Logically i would presume they would use the phone book as a primary source for residents... but again, who knows? It sounds to me as if the ODP dropped the ball in some ways, or at least they weren't using their volunteers effectively... anyone have a manual/handbook for local election strategies?

Red State. Perhaps Ohioans can turn another place blue? ;)

It is very odd how people voted. I can't understand not supporting new voting unless people were told the cost would be huge?

I love the smell of stolen election in the morning!

Seriously, Ohioans, you need to start a mass protest over this. You just had ANOTHER fraudulant election. No one can fix the problem but you, so go get 'em!

MojoXN

It's a bullhorn screaming we flipped the vote, and you can't do a thing about it.

and uninformed voters. I'm from Ohio, & people told me ads were running 24/7 there to oppose these issues. For people who aren't very well-informed, those ads might be the only exposure they get to these issues. So maybe they believed the ads? And maybe people didn't understand the issues, so they skipped voting on them? But then, that still doesn't explain the discrepancy in poll numbers. Maybe the "likely voters" in the polls didn't bother, leaving it to the right-wing fanatics to take over? I don't know. It's very dissapointing. ;(

Given the obvious disconnect between the pre-election polls and the "reported" election results on Issue 1 vs. Issues 2-5, we need a comprehensive post-election poll in Ohio to determine both turnout and how folks voted.

I'm not talking about exit polls 'cause it's too late for that. I'm talking about a regular old poll, sampling to be representative of voters and/or people who voted. Come on, Dems (both national and Buckeye State Dems), we need to determine and document whether this election was on the up-and-up. And since it was Ohio and Katherine Blackbeard is still in charge of "counting the votes" there, my bet is NOT.

There's no time to waste. Poll 'em 'til they squeal like the pigs they are.