Ok I'm not a black helicopter type of person, but...

I have a friend that just got back from Iraq.. and I take him for his word.. I really am amazed at this bullshit.

Here is our conversation:

American Soldier: well when there is a bombing over there the american media says we lost 6 people but the iraq media (the people that are in iraq at the time) say we lost 15 people

American Soldier: the american media dumbs things down... waters them down and then twists things a little so it doesnt seem so bad

Me: well wouldn't there be family members

ME: coming forward?

American Soldier: if they knew... but if the families dont hear from the soilders for a while, they just assume that they are busy (in action) but many times they are reported as just injured or missing

American Soldier: we had an attack on our platoon and we lost 6 guys... not right away, but 6 guys died after the attack... none of it was reported

American Soldier: they were listed as released, so technically they didnt die while in service

American Soldier: i snapped my anckle and it was not reported.. i figured they would at least contact my family and let them know i was injured, but they didnt say anything

Me: WHAT THE FUCK

American Soldier: they are the top goverment in the world and they have a lot of money... they can make a lot of stuff happen

American Soldier: thats why nobody is re-enlisting.... they are going to be loosing so many soilders because they cant get them to re-up..
American Soldier: and they are offering pretty good money....

American Soldier: when my time is up... i am out for good... a lot of other people down here feel the same way... they are gonna have to start a draft or something in the next few years

I realize the media is concentrated into a few owners, but how can they keep all this secret?

This is nonsense that's been debunked a thousand times already. Families just don't notice that their kids are dead? Get real. This unnamed American Soldier is full of shit.

This has been debunked so many times it's not even worth the effort.

Just reporting verbatim what was told to me. He just returned today.

I know how powerful his story must be, but remember that they are extremely vulnerable when they're in the field, and scuttlebutt is treated like gospel.

run by a neo-nazi. But hey.

:mad:

Which do you choose? I know which one I choose.

I believe this story because this is not the first time I've heard it. I've read periodically that the soldiers who do not actually die on Iraq soil--but who instead die in a hospital in Germany due to battle wounds--are not included in the official death count.

I wish more military families would speak up. I know, however, that they are under constraints.

It will take a lot of years for the full truth to come out. I hope this poisonous, treasonous, administration will be booted out even before then.

Voting straight democrat for all congressional elections is our only hope. That will give us a chance at impeachment.

Military families are NOT under constraint and if their loved ones were missing they WOULD SPEAK UP.

How insulting.

How are we going to know? Is there some sort of open registry where we can check and see who has had to go to Iraq, and exactly who is still alive, or who has come home? Last time I looked, the rotten administration wouldn't even allow the publication of pictures of coffins arriving at Dover.

I think military families are being placed in an impossible position. If they criticize this war as needless, avoidable, done for profit, etc., then some people see that as cheapening the service of those who serve. So what can a military family member do if he or she happens to inwardly realize just what a LIE this Iraq war is? Not much.

There are some who are speaking up (over missing loved ones) by asking questions of the military authorities. But WE would not hear about that, except in the few instances where it's made the news.

With a Pentagon that is clearly into secrecy, how do we REALLY know how many Americans have died over there? Or died in military hospitals?

Yes, I hear something from varied sources and I begin to think it might be true. But as I said before, we won't know for sure till a long time from now. You think Chimpy and Rumsfeld are going to tell us?

www.mfso.org

and, with Veterans for Peace, we're marching in the NYC veterans day parade. That's going to say a lot to a generally jingoist parade going crowd!

Also, just go to the Military Families tread at DU, you'll get a little sense of what we're dealing with....

am somehow criticizing military families or soldiers. I'm not. I'm glad to see the stuff you're showing me. I had very high hopes for the families AND for the actual soldiers, during the 2004 election. I felt sure that those who knew firsthand what was really going on with this war would NOT support this sham administration.

I still think they didn't support it. It's just that it seems no one bothers to count or include the votes of our military members. That is the biggest crime of all. How dare any politicians take steps to make military votes not be counted (as repukes did in 2000, for example) when those people are making the ultimate sacrifice? If I were the military, I'd be thinking of staging a "military coup" about now-taking over the government, just as might happen in any other banana republic. They'd be doing us all a favor if they did.

I think the lying news media is not covering groups like yours. Big surprise! I am glad you are spreading the word.

a servicemember gets killed for this fraudulent Iraq war:

"Somewhere in America, relatives will get phone calls asking them to come and sit with a father who is too numb to cry, pick up the children because the widow is inconsolable."

http://www.mfso.org/

Except, of course, instead of saying "somewhere", it should give the specifics of WHERE it is happening today. THIS epidemic of needless death is more real, more pervasive, and more frightening, than "bird flu".

My mother had the task of telling her parents that her brother had died, when my uncle died in WWII. She had to walk home from work in the freezing cold, with the notice from the army fresh in her mind, and the knowledge that she would be telling that to her parents and siblings when she got home. I try to keep that image fresh in MY mind, and I know there are people around us every day who are living that horror.

what can a military family member do if he or she happens to inwardly realize just what a LIE this Iraq war is? Not much.

I'm glad to be able to tell people what MFSO is doing.
The september March on Washington was amazing. More Veterans for Peace and Military Families Speak Out members together than ever before. It was great!

This ridiculous paranoid speculation and rumour mongering?

The logic that because they lied about some things, they are lying about everything, is faulty.

It matters not how many times you've heard this tale, it's still not true. Families, loved ones, other soldiers - they'd all notice discrepencies like this and the truth would out.

photos of military coffins arriving home... sure, they'll let us know the true number of dead.

The families are not necessarily in touch with one another. Are you saying families of soldiers have never been lied to? Call the Tillman family.

The families of troops deployed in Iraq are more connected than you could imagine. You've heard of the internet, right? There are so many gathering places and information clearinghouses online for these families and loved ones it would make your head spin.

Not.

Sure they lied to Tillman's family about the circumstances of his death. Sure they lie about a lot of things. But they don't necessarrily lie about everything. And it simply is not possible for them to "hide" substantial numbers of fatalities. Not. Possible.

onenote

"They don't necessarily lie about everything"--about this poisonous administration. Rumsfeld is a criminal.

They didn't lie to Tillman's family that he'd died? Sure. They just lied about everything else to do with it. I don't excuse them for that.

It's only Democracy Now! that covers these issues well and regularly!

www.democracynow.org

http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_18119.shtml

"Had Pat’s father and mother not chosen to go public with their pain and frustration, Tillman might have remained a shill (“poster boy” as his father put it) for the US government's callous serial war-crusade. May this be a beginning? "


There a lot of info out about Tillman.
He had scheduled to meet with Noam Chomsky when he returned from the war....

his stories would seep out- this site is widely read.