|
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend Bookmark this thread |
This topic is archived. |
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) |
Ian David (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-09-05 05:08 PM Original message |
Who Would Jesus Torture? |
From: Sojourners SojoMail@sojo.net
Date: Nov 9, 2005 Subject: Who Would Jesus Torture? - SojoMail 11.09.05 SOJOMAIL Promoting values at the crossroads where spirituality, politics, and culture meet Brought to you by the publishers of Sojourners magazine http://go.sojo.net/ct/UdAzAh41wXv6/ ++++++++++++++++ 09-November-2005 ++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++ Who Would Jesus Torture? ++++++++++++ Quote of the Week *From a soldier to a senator Batteries Not Included *David Batstone: Who would Jesus torture? Theologically Connect *Wal-Mart and frugality's folly By the Numbers *Survey says... Campus Lines *Anticipating peace, from Exodus to Armistice Day Religion and Politics *IRS targets church for anti-war sermon Signs of the Times *Bibles banned behind bars? Sojourners in the News *This week's media roundup Boomerang *Readers write ***************** ADVERTISEMENT ****************** Start a Joy at Work Discussion Group The Joy at Work Bible Study with DVD is a companion to Dennis Bakke's national best-seller, Joy at Work. Bring joy into your work and church by studying the books in your small group. * It focuses on the topic of work - how God views my work and what difference that makes * It is a hands-on Bible study that explores the theme of work from Genesis to Revelation * It is advanced - ideal for existing groups that are looking for new challenges * It includes hard-hitting discussion questions for 'get real' group interaction * It includes a DVD that complements the study with real stories from the front-lines of work. Learn more at DennisBakke.com: http://go.sojo.net/ct/m1AzAh41wXvX/ ************************************************** Quote of the Week ++++++++++++++++++++++++ "While I served in the Global War on Terror, the actions and statements of my leadership led me to believe that United States policy did not require application of the Geneva Conventions in Afghanistan or Iraq.... Despite my efforts, I have been unable to get clear, consistent answers from my leadership about what constitutes lawful and humane treatment of detainees. I am certain that this confusion contributed to a wide range of abuses including death threats, beatings, broken bones, murder, exposure to elements, extreme forced physical exertion, hostage-taking, stripping, sleep deprivation, and degrading treatment. I and troops under my command witnessed some of these abuses in both Afghanistan and Iraq." - Captain Ian Fishback of the 82nd Airborne Division in a letter to Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), as printed in The Washington Post. + Read the full text: http://go.sojo.net/ct/pdAzAh41wm4A/ -------------------------------------------------- Batteries Not Included +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Who would Jesus torture? by David Batstone Christians of strong religious faith and sound moral conscience often end up in disagreement. Human affairs are a messy business, unfortunately, and even at the best of times we only see through a glass, darkly. It is hard for that reason to call Christians to a universal standard of behavior. At this moment, however, we cannot afford to dilute the message of Jesus into meaningless ambiguity. There are certain acts that a follower of Jesus simply cannot accept. Here is one: A Christian cannot justify the torture of a human being. The practice of torture by American soldiers is a hot topic at the Pentagon, in the Congress, and in the White House at the moment. The U.S. Senate already has passed 90-9 a bill that prohibits "cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment" of prisoners in U.S. custody. The lead advocate of the bill, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), was tortured by his captors during the Vietnam War. According to The New York Times, the Pentagon adopted a policy last Thursday to rein in interrogation techniques. The new policy uses much of the same language as the McCain amendment - drawn in large part from the Geneva Convention - to adopt standards for handling terror suspects. Remarkably, the White House opposes the Pentagon initiative, and threatens to veto any legislation to which the McCain bill gets attached. Vice President Dick Cheney has urged Republican senators to allow CIA counterterrorism operations internationally to be exempt from the ban on mistreatment of prisoners, major newspapers reported. On Nov. 3, Lawrence Wilkerson, former chief of staff for then-Secretary of State Colin Powell, said during an interview on NPR's "Morning Edition" that memos from Cheney's office practically encouraged abuse of Iraqi prisoners. Though in "carefully couched terms" that would allow for deniability, the message from Cheney's office conveyed the sentiment that interrogations of Iraqi prisoners were not providing the needed intelligence. Wilkerson said soldiers in the field would have concluded that to garner better intelligence they could resort to interrogation techniques that "were not in accordance with the spirit of the Geneva Conventions and the law of war." Republican senators are among the strongest voices in the growing chorus of criticism. Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) said, "I think the administration is making a terrible mistake in opposing John McCain's amendment on detainees and torture." And Sen. John Warner (R-Va.), chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee and co-sponsor of McCain's measure, agreed: "I firmly believe that it's in the best interest of the Department of Defense, the men and women of the United States military that this manual be their guide." When the existence of secret CIA detention centers became public this week, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) and Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) called for investigations - not about whether they violate laws governing human rights - but about how the information was leaked. But members of their own party are keeping the focus where it belongs. The Washington Post quoted Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) as saying, "Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees. The real story is those jails." Admittedly, Christians of good faith part paths when political conflict leads us to consider what constitutes a just and righteous war - or if any war can be just. Though we may not consent on the means, we do consent on the need to confront the spread of evil in the world. Yet we can all affirm scripture when it says, "Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.... Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good" (Romans 12:17, 21). When we confront evil with its own means, those means mark our own character. In that regard, the practice of torture so fully embraces evil it dehumanizes both the torturer and its victim. No just cause can be won if it relies on torture to succeed. Democracy and freedom cannot result from a war fueled by torture, which is why so many Americans were shocked and angered by the disturbing incidents that took place at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. All the more so, Christians must oppose torture under any circumstances. Consider this: Who would Jesus torture? I cannot imagine Jesus finding a single "exemption" that would justify such an abuse of any individual made in God's image. Though I bristle whenever I hear someone refer to the United States as a Christian nation - it is such a loaded phrase - many in the Muslim world see us as such. How tragic it would be for Muslims to identify the message and mission of Jesus with torture and terror. We must not allow that to happen. Action Alert: "Do not repay evil for evil...." (1 Peter 3:9). Despite strong bipartisan support in the Senate, Republican leaders in the House - including Speaker Hastert - are using a procedural loophole to block an up or down House vote on Sen. McCain's anti-torture measure. + Click here to ask Speaker Hastert and your representative to stand up against torture: http://go.sojo.net/campaign/wwjt/wwuk8g32h5t853j? + Tell a friend about this issue of SojoMail at: http://go.sojo.net/sojourners/join-forward.html?domain=sojourners&r=11AzAh41FRBB& ***************** ADVERTISEMENT ****************** Explore a radical new spiritual vision at What Is Enlightenment? online: http://go.sojo.net/ct/ppAzAh41wm4N/ Get your FREE 10-day multimedia pass to more than 60 articles and 40 audios and videos with today's leading visionaries and innovative thinkers. Discover a revolution in human consciousness: http://go.sojo.net/ct/ppAzAh41wm4N/ and culture - in religion, science, politics, social activism, and more. Here you'll find the best of What Is Enlightenment?'s 14 years of cutting-edge, investigative spiritual journalism, artfully presented for the first time in thematic, easy-to-browse web-pages: ¿ Contemplative Christianity ¿ The Evolution of Spirituality ¿ Solving the Mystery of Consciousness ¿ Can Buddhism Survive America? ¿ and many more...: http://go.sojo.net/ct/ppAzAh41wm4N/ ************************************************** Theologically Connect ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Wal-Mart and frugality's folly by C. Melissa Snarr Frugality is not a spiritual discipline. Yet Americans regularly follow weekend trips to places of worship with drives to giant discount stores. Jewish, Christian, and Muslim traditions unite in challenging those of us who would save a buck at the cost of another's well-being. Unfortunately, in our current culture, getting a "deal" has largely displaced righteous dealings as our first consideration in the marketplace. Within the Christian tradition, the term frugal is wholly absent from the biblical text and is not among the fruits of the spirit in Galatians 5:22-23. Generosity is instead the prized theme in stories of faith. God enables human generosity by promising a care for believers and creation that allows us to put our store in heaven, not in barns or walk-in closets here on earth. The images are numerous: banquet tables set for the homeless, fishes and loaves multiplied, water turned into wine, and manna falling from heaven. Throughout scripture, generosity is structured by obligations to the most vulnerable. Rulers, merchants, and nations are judged by how they treat the poor, widowed, and orphaned. Faithful generosity follows God's preference for those normally forgotten by society. + Read the full article: http://go.sojo.net/ct/i1AzAh41wXv0/ + Learn more about Wal-Mart Watch's "Higher Expectations Week," Nov. 13-19: http://go.sojo.net/ct/u7AzAh41wXvx/ ***************** ADVERTISEMENT ****************** Make a statement and show the world you care about PEACE! Go to http://go.sojo.net/ct/Q1AzAh41wm43/ http://go.sojo.net/ct/p1AzAh41wm4_/ and show your support for PEACE in a very tangible way through the purchase of "Support Peace" products. When you place your order at http://go.sojo.net/ct/PpAzAh41wm4x/, enter "SOJO" into the promotion code field of the online personal information form and Sojourners will receive a percentage of the sale. ************************************************** By the Numbers +++++++++++++++++++++ Survey says... A new Washington Post-ABC News poll shows that a majority of Americans have serious doubts about President Bush's leadership and integrity, and the war in Iraq. * 60% disapprove of the way Bush is handling his job as president. * 58% believe Bush is not "honest and trustworthy." * 55% believe the Bush administration "intentionally misled the American public" about Iraq. * 64% disapprove of the way Bush is handling the situation in Iraq. * 60% think that given the costs, the Iraq war was not worth fighting. * 52% believe that the Iraq war has not "contributed to the long-term security" of the U.S. + See the entire poll: http://go.sojo.net/ct/p7AzAh41wm4M/ ************************************************** : http://go.sojo.net/ct/P1AzAh41wm42/ As Advent approaches, Sojourners is delighted to offer "Preaching the Word," our online resource for scriptural reflection, Bible study, and sermon preparation based on the Revised Common Lectionary for Sundays. For less than $5 each month, you'll have exclusive access to the best biblical commentary from more than 30 years of Sojourners - including articles previously unavailable online! Our carefully selected material will help you link biblical texts with a new vision of contemporary faith and social justice! + See a sample week : http://go.sojo.net/ct/l7AzAh41wm41/ + Subscribe today : http://go.sojo.net/ct/P1AzAh41wm42/ ************************************************** Campus Lines +++++++++++++++++++ Anticipating peace, from Exodus to Armistice Day by Jake Erickson The horrible tragedy of war has been made ever more apparent these past weeks with the American death toll in the Iraq war now surpassing 2,000, and the death toll of Iraqi citizens in the tens of thousands. Many people feel mired down by the persisting conflict in Iraq, burdened with the realization that the war probably won't be finished soon. And the Bush administration's stance that we must continue to "hold out" in Iraq does not bring much comfort or hope for those of us who see peace as an obligation of our Christian faith. As people of faith, however, we are called in hopeful worship to remember times of peace - even in the midst of violent conflict. We are called to remember times when God has miraculously delivered humanity out of evil. The story of Exodus 13:3-10 calls us to this remembrance. Even before they are delivered out of Egypt, Moses says to the people that they will celebrate the festival of the unleavened bread. Moses gives the people this subtle instruction about that celebration in verse 8: "You shall tell your child on that day, 'It is because of what the Lord did for me when I came out of Egypt.'" The Israelites were instructed to remember their deliverance into peace. Present-day people of faith are to do likewise. + Read the full article: http://go.sojo.net/ct/idAzAh41wXvp/ ***************** ADVERTISEMENT ****************** Religious Left Gifts at http://go.sojo.net/ct/PdAzAh41wm4w/ http://go.sojo.net/ct/j1AzAh41wXve/. Looking for that unique gift for Christmas? We sell T-shirts, buttons, tote bags, mugs, bumper stickers, note cards, etc. Our products include: ¿ Proud Member of the Religious Left ¿ I support the separation of Church and Hate ¿ When Jesus said "Love Your Enemies" He didn't mean "Kill Them!" ¿ God wants Spiritual Fruits, Not Religious Nuts ¿ "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi ¿ "Blessed Are The Peacemakers" - Jesus ¿ I believe evolution is one of God's creations! ¿ Do Justice, Love Kindness, Walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8 ¿ Pro-Life does NOT end at birth ************************************************** Religion and Politics ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ IRS targets church for anti-war sermon All Saints Episcopal Church of Pasadena, California, has had its tax-exempt status challenged over anti-war statements made by its pastor during last year's election. According to the Los Angeles Times, Rev. George F. Regas told his congregation that "good people of profound faith" could vote for either candidate, but then went on to say of George W. Bush, "Mr. President, your doctrine of preemptive war is a failed doctrine. Forciby changing the regime of an enemy that posed no imminent threat has led to disaster." As an added twist, reports the Times, the IRS has offered to extend grace to All Saints if they confess their sins. The paper quotes the church's tax attorney - a former head of the IRS tax-exempt section - as saying, "They said if there was a confession of wrongdoing, they would not proceed to the exam stage. They would be willing not to revoke tax-exempt status if the church admitted intervening in an election." + Read the full Los Angeles Times article: http://go.sojo.net/ct/mpAzAh41wXvf/ Read more: Conservatives Also Irked by IRS Probe of Churches: http://go.sojo.net/ct/EdAzAh41wXv5/ National Council of Churches and the National Association of Evangelicals find common cause The won't-be-bullied pulpit: http://go.sojo.net/ct/EpAzAh41wXvg/. George Regas refuses to surrender "the very soul of our ministry." ***************** ADVERTISEMENT ****************** One Site. Every Grant Opportunity. http://go.sojo.net/ct/udAzAh41wXvs/ http://go.sojo.net/ct/m7AzAh41wXvr/ That's right. Everything you need to find and apply for all federal grants is now online - right at your fingertips. And many of these grants are of particular interest to nonprofit and faith-based organizations. There's so much to choose from and apply to because there are so many grant-making agencies and programs participating: * $400 billion in annual grants * 26 federal agencies - 100% of federal grant opportunities * More than 1,000 different grant programs * Thousands of grant opportunities listed * Millions of grant information pages viewed every week Thousands of grant seekers are already using Grants.gov to help them succeed at procuring federal grants. Discover the convenience for yourself. Visit http://go.sojo.net/ct/P7AzAh41wm4s/ http://go.sojo.net/ct/m7AzAh41wXvr/ today. ************************************************** Signs of the Times +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bibles banned behind bars? During last year's election campaign, the Republican National Committee sent direct mail to voters in Arkansas and West Virginia threatening that liberals would ban the Bible: http://go.sojo.net/ct/0pAzAh41wm4L/ if elected. It would seem that their terrifying vision has come true in a different way. Human rights lawyer G.T. Hunt: http://go.sojo.net/ct/opAzAh41wXvV/ says he has been prevented from delivering a King James Bible - in the publisher's original shrink-wrap packaging - to a client being detained at Guantanamo. Hunt writes, "Now they won't let my guy at Guantanamo have a Bible. This is true. He asked for one, I sent one down, and a Staff Judge Advocate went out of his way to dress me down for doing so, and told me definitely that the prisoner could not have a Bible. 'We're trying to run a prison here,' he said, or words to that effect.... Where's Chuck Colson when you need him?" + Read Hunt's legal motions: http://go.sojo.net/ct/U7AzAh41wXvO/ ***************** ADVERTISEMENT ****************** : http://go.sojo.net/ct/upAzAh41wXv3/ ************************************************** Sojourners in the News +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Top stories: Bush administration's moral compass is lost: http://go.sojo.net/ct/91AzAh41wXvG/ Chicago Sun-Times Evangelical Christian theologian and leader Jim Wallis, founder of Sojourners, a national network of "progressive Christian" peace and justice activists, led an ecumenical gathering of religious leaders in a protest at the Capitol building Thursday, calling the proposed cuts "a moral travesty." Dem Mantra Should Be Security, Truth, Kids: http://go.sojo.net/ct/ipAzAh41wXvQ/ The Capitol Times (Madison) Jim Wallis, author of a brilliant book, God's Politics, urges us to apply the best wisdom of both our prophetic and democratic visions.... Wallis also suggests that when we find the answers to the "God question" intolerable and we engage in protest, the aim should be to illuminate a society for its need to change. More Sojourners in the news: A man and his myths: http://go.sojo.net/ct/9pAzAh41wXvJ/ Newsweek Backward, Christian soldiers: http://go.sojo.net/ct/o7AzAh41wXvZ/ The Wall Street Journal Religious leaders rally for poor as Senate passes budget cuts to Medicare: http://go.sojo.net/ct/97AzAh41wXv-/ The Christian Post : http://go.sojo.net/ct/9dAzAh41wXvF/ problems?: http://go.sojo.net/ct/kpAzAh41wXvH/ The O'Reilly Factor A pastor challenges progressives: Take back the church: http://go.sojo.net/ct/k7AzAh41wXvT/ BuzzFlash Words to live by: http://go.sojo.net/ct/odAzAh41wXvK/ Science and Spirit Michael Lerner and Jim Wallis in Discussion: http://go.sojo.net/ct/o1AzAh41wXvD/ Tikkun The Religious Politics of Jim Wallis: http://go.sojo.net/ct/kdAzAh41wXvY/ The American Spectator Senate panel retains subsidies for food for the needy: http://go.sojo.net/ct/k1AzAh41wXvR/ American Baptist Press Just how monolithic are American Evangelicals: http://go.sojo.net/ct/i7AzAh41wXvP/ Nieman Watchdog *************** ADVERTISING LINKS **************** "Preaching the Word": http://go.sojo.net/ct/l1AzAh41wXvC/ sermon preparation for those who preach "with the Bible in one hand and the newspaper in the other." Bible and the Contemporary World: http://go.sojo.net/ct/07AzAh41wm4S/ - online, distance-learning graduate degree with the School of Divinity, the University of St Andrews, Scotland. Entry available each January and September exploring how Christianity and our culture relate. We are building a dynamic, multi-cultural congregation in Long Island, New York. Our 200-member church is actively involved in the Prebyterian Church (U.S.A.) Church Transformation Network. The associate pastor will lead in creating ministries with youth, evangelism, and contemporary worship with a focus on church growth. View our church information form: http://go.sojo.net/ct/U1AzAh41wXvb/ and our Web site: http://go.sojo.net/ct/mdAzAh41wXv4/. Send your personal information form by e-mail: mailto:faith8320@aol.com, or mail to: First Presbyterian Church of Baldwin, 717 St. Luke's Place, Baldwin, NY 11510, Attn: Barbara Reither. ************************************************** Boomerang ++++++++++++++++ Readers write Christina Stone writes from Houston, Texas: Why can't Sojourners be less partisan? In many of his columns, Jim Wallis is thoughtful and reasonable. In other columns (like "Give 'em Hell, Harry": http://go.sojo.net/ct/UdAzAh41wXv6//index.cfm?action=sojomail.display&issue=051102#3 I am conservative, but I like to read the liberal vew of current events, especially faith-based views. However, Sojourners tends to buy into the Democratic Party line and treat conservatives and Republicans as though they have horns and do not act out of honest convictions and good-faith beliefs. I and many of my conservative friends assume that most liberals do think and act in good faith. I hope that in the future you will avoid publishing shrill, over-the-top, openly partisan articles. ---------- Jillian Hotz writes from Wayne, Pennsylvania: I just wanted to write a quick note to say thank you for the work you do. Getting involved with politics has always seemed overwhelming to me. Seeing the important items in the big picture and getting accuate facts has seemed almost impossible, though, as a Christian, I know it's a necessity. Groups like these help ordinary people like me get aware and get involved. I was a member of True Majority for a while, but their one-sided approach to party politics was a big turn-off, as I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat. Thank you for giving me a way to get involved. ---------- Philip Hannam writes from Minneapolis, Minneapolis: I deeply respect and regard the integrity I have observed in Sojourners and your life and ministry. I also want you to know I have trouble receiving much of your message because it often feels so entangled with the "Washington culture/adversity/fighting." I see no more political courage in the closed Senate session than in the Democrats' first stance on Iraq, "We basically would support military action but only if Bush consults with us." It has been constant opposition to Bush/war - while never advocating coherent policy options including opposition to war. ---------- Louise Monacelli writes from Berkley, Michigan: Thank you so much for publishing this piece <"The real Rosa[br />Parks,": http://go.sojo.net/ct/UdAzAh41wXv6//index.cfm?action=sojomail.display&issue=051102#7 SojoMail 11/2/2005]. As Detroit is awash today in the aftermath of the funeral of Rosa Parks, the idealized woman-symbol, I have held onto this very truth that I came across a few years ago to counteract all the sickening posturing about what she symbolizes. I am much more challenged by the real Rosa Parks to live out of my own truth and refuse to give up what I know to be right! ---------- Boomerang is an open forum for all kinds of views that do not necessarily represent those of Sojourners. Want to make your voice heard? Because of the volume of letters we receive, concise responses that include a name, hometown, and state/province/country are the most likely to be published. We reserve the right to edit for length and clarity. E-mail: boomerang@sojo.net ***************** ADVERTISEMENT ****************** Go With Peace By Kelly Guinan "Go With Peace should be in every home, every school, every community center, every place of worship! This extraordinary book shows how the capacity for peace develops from infancy to old age in every kind of setting, from solitude to international gatherings, and gives delightfully concrete examples of ways to exercise the skills of peace in each setting, including some very unlikely ones. Deeply spiritual yet full of fun (and intellectually challenging), this book can lift frustrated peacemakers out of the gloom of difficult times, and release the dynamics of hope in each of us." - Elise Boulding, Ph.D., author, scholar, and activist; founding member of several international peace education and research organizations; Nobel Peace Prize nominee. : http://go.sojo.net/ct/jpAzAh41wXvB/ wonderful new book! More than 170 pages of hands-on peacemaking skills. Essential for anyone longing for peace, justice, hope, and a new way of being. Proceeds support a nonprofit peace education organization http://go.sojo.net/ct/j7AzAh41wXvc/ http://go.sojo.net/ct/jdAzAh41wXvd/ Order now for limited time offer discount. ************************************************** ...................................................... To make a secure donation to support our work, go to: https://secure.ga3.org/03/SMF_donate_online/n11AzAh41FRBB? ------------------------------------------------------ Copyright (c) 2004 Sojourners. All Rights Reserved. SojoMail material may be freely distributed, as long as it bears the following attribution: Source: Sojourners 2004 (c) For more information, e-mail us: sojourners@sojo.net ------------------------------------------------------ SUBSCRIBE, SEARCH, OR BROWSE BACK ISSUES Visit: http://go.sojo.net/ct/0dAzAh41wm4z/ PRIVACY NOTICE Sojourners won't trade, sell, or give away your e-mail address. Read our privacy statement at: http://go.sojo.net/ct/y1AzAh41wXvI/ *********************************** Powered by GetActive Software, Inc. Relationship Management for Member Organizations (tm) http://www.getactive.com *********************************** |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Neocondriac (732 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-09-05 05:34 PM Response to Original message |
1. Simple.... |
Pauly Shore !
|
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Tue Apr 30th 2024, 09:42 AM Response to Original message |
Advertisements [?] |
Top |
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) |
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators
Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.
Home | Discussion Forums | Journals | Store | Donate
About DU | Contact Us | Privacy Policy
Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.
© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC