DLC...what the hell?

Speaking Out on Iraq

In the last week, three thoughtful New Democrat leaders have issued clear statements in favor of maintaining troops in Iraq until benchmarks have been reached to enable Iraqis to provide their own security and control their own destiny:
# Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (NY)
# Sen. Joseph Lieberman (CT)
# Gov. Mark Warner (VA)


What To Do Now In Iraq
The right course now is neither to give the terrorists a victory by withdrawing, nor to continue Bush's failed policies.

http://www.dlc.org/

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I could SCREAM!!!!!!!!
They do think we are stupid!

:mad:

These statements are helping me narrow down my list of acceptable nominees.
Clinton? Nope.
Warner? Nope.
Lieberman? Not in this universe.

* was going to propose tomorrow. Problem is he is the one who gets to set the benchmarks and decide if they have been met, which is OK if you trust him as Joementum and Hillary apparently do but very few others in the country agree with.

the names and where they stand, I'll form my opinion.
It seems pretty obvious they are not MY friends. But
doncha know, Hillary has already softened her opinion?

They stake out the positions they do COMPLETELY WITHOUT REGARD TO THE DLC.

If people want to hate the DLC for its positions, for Al From, for being funded by corporate soft money, great! They should be. But only in From's wildest dreams does the DLC influence anything. Al From is the meaningless little guy behind the curtain, the Wizard in this Oz. His "powers" are completely in the heads of those who fear the DLC. The DLC merely says what conservative Dems are thinking.

I don't think the ADA controls liberals, and I don't think Aipac controls Jews. Politicians vote the way they think they need to in order to win support for themselves. It's not complicated, and if polls said 90% of Americans wanted socialism, they'd all be calling for socialized medicine tomorrow.

"Politicians vote the way they think they need to in order to win support for themselves."'

That's why I am sick of the politicians. It ain't ever about what's good for the country...just what's good for them! Jerks!

So the problem with power-grubbing will always appear. That's the nature of concentrated power, the power to make decisions for many people. To hold power, one must do what is necessary to keep it, including pandering. Only a few hold power and can actively exercise it. Everybody else is rendered as passive participants by merely voting for decision-makers. You choose the driver of the car, but you are not allowed to take the wheel and drive yourself. This is the nature of all republican forms of government, all representative democracies.

The US was never truly a democracy in the original definition of the word. It's a republic instead. A true democracy can work at the local/city level, but it is difficult to near impossible at the regional and national level. The only nation that has come closest to direct democracy on anything at the regional level or higher is Switzerland, and they're considered a semi-direct democracy.

that we are interested in? Shouldn't we be upset when they don't ever get taken to the promised destination?

I think everyone understands that elected representatives juggle responsibilities to their constituents interests and responsibility to the region and nation.

What pisses people off is that some democratic politicians have organized into blocs of drivers who seem uninterested in getting their passengers to ANY particular promised destination and are preoccupied with decisions based on keeping the role of driver, and getting attention from the chaueffer's uniform, while going up and down main street in a shiny car, telling the people in the back, "Be patient, I'm an excellent driver....I'm going everywhere my competitor's limo goes cause that's where the fares are; you'll like those places; now give me $5 bucks for gas."

This is the reality of our government as well as the governments of all republics on earth. Go to any country that has a representative government, and you will see the same complaints over and over again. That appears to be apart of the nature of concentrating decision-making power into the hands of a relatively small number of people.

For some reason, it holds an attraction to people who like the feeling of being in control, of exercising power over others (and even abusing it) whether it's levying war or levying taxes. They compete for it as a result, and it appears they become over-represented in the pool of people who can exercise power.

At least with the Swiss, there are avenues written into the constitution that allows the population itself to challenge the decision of lawmakers through referenda and initiatives or even introduce their own legislation despite the lawmakers.

and I can think of several behavioral corollaries that have implications concerning sexual fidelity and greed...

However, typically always doing what will get you elected, again has never before been so codified in a political organization as it has been in the DLC.

I suspect that is why there is such strong anti-DLC sentiment on this board.

with Corporate Donations,

If you don't want to face a Corporate backed challenger during your Primary,

If you want to continue to get "Face Time" on the Corporate Owned Media,

You DO pay attention to the DLC!
When the DLC speaks, Corporate Owned Politicians LISTEN.

But if you want to hate on the DLC, join me in doing so.
http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst

I don't have to like them to know they're not a major influence in the party. The DLC staff wishes they could make pols do things. That ain't how it works. The DLC has to deliver the pols to get the fat cats to fund. The DLC is in the business of begging pols to join, so the DLC can continue touting itself for purposes of raising money to further tout itself.

The DLC is SO MUCH MORE than a harmless think tank.

It IS a creation of Corporate Owners and Management to INCREASE the influence of BIG MONEY Single Source interests inside the Democratic Party. It was CREATED and FUNDED BY BIG MONEY to change the Traditional Values of the Democratic Party by buying candidates and elections. The DLC has at its disposal all the resources of BIG CORPORATE America including the highly developed PR (advertising) Networks that are very successful at influencing public opinion.




For those who believe that the DLC is simply a harmless "Think tank", go here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=4443&forum=DCForumID22&archive=




Have any of you observed BIG MONEY showing up with a"Beltway Annointed" outsider candidate in YOUR local elections?
I have!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=160&topic_id=14207&mesg_id=14367
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=160x14207


The DLC is MUCH MORE than a harmless think tank.
The DLC IS the creeping CorpoFascism that is destroying our Democracy. They are the primary tool used by BIG MONEY to destroy the Democratic Party from the inside!

The DLC is insidious! Betrayal from the inside is more dangerous than
a clear external enemy.

Question for the so called "New Democrats":
What was wrong with the Old Democrats?
The economic policies of the Old Democrats (FDR) catalyzed an unparalleled economic explosion that gave birth to the Middle Class in America and eventually provided Equal Rights for ALL Americans!



The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM
for those who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners)
at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

I'm familiar with the DLC, and I know exactly who it is, what it does, and how it does it.
http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst

So it gets talked about. But your vision of the DLC as some great force is laughable. Pols do what they do because they like to get elected. If that means stopping at the DLC for some event a couple of times a year, then that's what it means.

You give the DLC way, way too much credit. It's only influential in your head and the heads of those who fear it. DLC makes nothing happen. It's a lobby for a point of view.

I expected better (sigh).
Should I respond in kind?
I don't think so.


Buh-bye!
:patriot:

And if you're going to litter the board with trite accusations, at least use them properly.

Ad hominem has to be the most overused, misused term on message boards. It's not always about YOU. When someone disagrees with you, it's not a personal attack.

We're talking about the DLC and the imaginary, god-like powers you imagine it to have.

Yay--somebody who more or less gets it. There's so much crap in the air around DU that you would think that the DLC was a combination of the RNC and a satanic cult... oh wait. I'm repeating myself. But seriously, you'd think that it was a demonic octopus with tentacles crawling inside every aspect of the party from the way some people talk about it. Conspiracy theories aside, all the DLC really amounts to is a front for a some moderate and conservative Democrats.

....think we're stupid and there's nothing we're going to do about it....and they're probably right....

....just get the hell out of Iraq, now....we've got better things to be spending this money on....like Universal Healthcare....

....if we get a corporate Dem prez in '08 and an onging war, this will be their excuse not to persue a social agenda....and if I hear 'we need to balance the budget now, one more time' I'm going to pi$$ myself....

....I don't ever want to hear a Dem say that again....if we can spend money we don't have for filthy repug tax cuts and filthy repug wars we can certainly spend money we don't have for a Universal Healthcare system our people desperately need....

That is why everyone hates them.

Bush's failed policies...No to withdraw...

They are idiots. Period. What would they have done any different? The war is a disaster because the war was a mistake.

They are waiting for Bush to crash without them having to take a real stand.

I think it will backfire personally.

The country is an artificial creation, a product of British colonialism. They threw several different peoples together and called it Iraq, and they expected it to suddenly come together in harmony and peace? Not in this universe. The only thing that held Iraq together since the 1960s was Ba'athist iron-fisted rule. Otherwise, all these people in Iraq would have nothing to do with each other.

All the US did was speed up the inevitable. The only difference is that the US spilled American blood in the process in the name of greed and power-lust.

Wes Clark stated from the first that this whole bullshit war was wrong...and a couple months ago stated, that there was a very very small window of opportunity, left open, to succeed in any way in Iraq, but that the window of opportunity was drawing closed with each passing day...and also that the American people would be right in demanding a complete troop PULL OUT soon...

Wes Clark didn't cast a vote for that dastardly resolution..BUT He has had the courage to speak out against our invasion of Iraq, before and more often than anyone else..He did call for the use of DIPLOMACY way BEFORE the "war" started, and has been calling for the implementation of Diplomacy with Iraq/her neighbors, all along, as a way to get us out of the region..

Let's not forget exactly who it was that took us into Iraq...WES CLARK was NOT involved...and it won't be up to HIM to get us out!!...(how about we count on the people we elected, to do that??)!! thanks
windbreeze

"We’re involved in a war that we didn’t have to fight. That’s the simple truth," Clark said. "Now it’s in trouble, deep trouble. I wish it was just as simple as saying, Mr. President, you made a mistake, get those troops out now."

The trouble is, he continued, that the Islamic extremists "really do want to attack us. Getting out of Iraq will be a great defeat for us unless we do it in the right way."

Clark said the anti-war movement should demand that Bush establish a "regional dialogue with other Arab states, including people we don’t like, like Syria and Iran," and focus on "changing the minds and cutting off the recruiting" of those now blowing up tanks and buses in Iraq.

"We need to turn off the flow of weapons and fighters going into Iraq and turn off the invective and fears and create a climate where the Iraqis don’t need to fight each other," he said. "And then we can come home."

more: http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0539,fergusonclar,68194,2.html

In Clark's own words:

...it would also be a mistake to pull out now, or to start pulling out or to set a date certain for pulling out. Instead we need a strategy to create a stable, democratizing and peaceful state in Iraq...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/25/AR2005082501623.html?nav=hcmodule

The point was criticism of Democrats who are "in favor of maintaining troops in Iraq until benchmarks have been reached to enable Iraqis to provide their own security and control their own destiny."

In Clark's own words:

...it would also be a mistake to pull out now, or to start pulling out or to set a date certain for pulling out. Instead we need a strategy to create a stable, democratizing and peaceful state in Iraq...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/25/AR2005082501623.html?nav=hcmodule

The whole piece has been described as ""stay the course, only make it a better course"

Sorry - Wes Clark is clearly not in favor of a immediate withdrawal or for setting any date to begin such. He is clearly of the same mind on the topic as the "dreaded" DLC Dems being criticized for the position.

....just reminding everyone as we scream bloody murder that John Kerry is DLC

That is all

From didn't list him among potential DLC candidates - but he included Hillary, Bayh, Vilsack, Warner and Richardson(?)

Kerry didn't attend the 2005 conference.

on the DLC website? If it is, does anyone know where?

If it isn't, and Kerry is DLC like many DUers claim he is, why isn't his exit plan on the DLC website?

Kerry IS a member of the DLC. Whether or not they list his exit plan is irrelevant to his membership in that organization.

It's analogous to Christian concepts of getting into heaven.

I'm like the GOD who says if you show me anything good, you're IN.

Others are the GOD who has this long list of things, and your ass is burning if you fail to meet all of them.

I think that kind of thinking sucks in politics as well as religion. We must have elasticity, not rigidity, in our relations with all Dems who will show up and call themselves Dems. How can some even think about running off Dems when we don't control any part of the federal government? I read it every day here, and every day I marvel that people obsess so thoroughly over a fairly unmeaningful group.

If the DLC disappeared tomorrow, nothing would change.