Do these idiots SERIOUSLY believe the military alone will "win" this??

This "plan" STILL reflects a belief that Iraq will be stabilized, and freedom spread throughout the ME, through military force alone.

Nothing about TALKing to anyone -- no engaged diplomacy in the region, no cooperation with and from the UN and NATO, no economic or other persuasion, no way of addressing the underlying ideologies -- just fight fight fight... And Chimpy compares it with WWII. It is nothing like WWII!!!

He claims having an Iraqi government in place, and convincing its opponents that they can't defeat it, will somehow end the fighting. But the government will not create peace on the streets, and fighting in the streets won't secure the government's stability! So what is supposed to make this stop?!?

Are they really this stupid? Do they really believe what they're saying??

its just a pretty document.

if something is being done. Nixon did the same thing.

Nobody who is responsible for this cheap document believes any of it, with the exception of the clueless Bush.

What is a win when hundreds of thousands of people have died, possibly as many as a half a million injured?

IMO, the concept of winning is a republican frame the media is echoing. There is no win in this. The best outcome is minimizing the damage that has been done.

Is it TV do you think? That brainwashes this sick sort of nationalistic sports mentality into people? It seems to me these fascists are more concerned with their "team" "winning" because they are their team, rather then because they are fighting a just war for just reasons. This explains why any attack on whether the war is justified is seen by them as unpatriotic. Very disturbing.

-personman

"Fight," "Win," "Don't back down," etc...

But this simply is NOT going to work to stabilize either the government or to stop the violence in the streets.

So what are they thinking? Do they really think it WILL work? Are they convinced the PNAC tactic of military intimidation can succeed in establishing peace, despite all evidence to the contrary?

The only other thing I can imagine is that their "exit strategy" is to claim victory, have the government "ask us to leave," and get out regardless of what's left behind, spinning it here as a success. (And, "Well, we did what we could. It's their problem now.")

They'll make sure the oil is secure, and that's all.

and that's the long and the short of it.

:evilfrown:

making that point and others... Factual, in-depth, thoughtful, realistic, taking & answering questions, etc...

What's he going to say if he ends the war without capturing the ringleader, Zarqawi?

Best thing we could do is spread the rumor that Zarqawi is dead and the terrorists are in disarray. Takes away the last excuse the Bushies have to stay in Iraq.

which, by his definition, is just NOT going to happen -- especially not through military force alone.

That's my point. Who is he pretending to want to defeat? Terrorists. That's why his Bushbots believe we're in there. "Fightin' them over there". Politically, Bush can't stop military action until he's caught or killed him a terrorist, a big ringleader terrorist. That's his Catch-22. The only reason his backers stand behind him is because they think we're fighting terrorists. In order to justify that belief, Bush has to keep fighting until he catches him one.

.... whether they are really that delusional, or that's just the story the tell to keep the war going for "other" reasons.

Diplomacy? Are you kidding? From the world's most arrogant dictator? "Either you are for us or against us on this war on terrah". They don't want to talk. They don't want peace. About as likely as Hitler having peace talks with the jews.

Also "WIN" is a word that is used very loosely. What is there to win? For a dictator to try to force our "peaceful government" on this 3rd world hell is a freaking joke. Long term, this war will likely make the region more unstable.

"I don’t think you can win . But I think you can create conditions so that the — those who use terror as a tool are — less acceptable in parts of the world."

-- George W. Bush, Aug. 29th, 2004