People who make the antiwar movement look stupid.

I'm watching Franken giving a speech and talking about his book at the Carter Center on CSPAN2. After he's done they line up audience members to ask questions. The very first person who says she's Jewish, states that we should pull out of Iraq immediately, and not so subtly implied that Jewish Neocons masterminded the war.

Al dismissed her non-question and talked about how he was disappointed with not only Wolfowitz, but with Rumsfeld and others. Then he stated some specific examples of the administration's incompetence and dishonesty that led us into war.

If I had a chance to ask him a question, I wouldn't waste his time and make us look foolish.

...and we ALL know Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and others (Neocons) are NOT the masterminds of the war.

:+

Consider Franklin, an Israeli agent who was in Feith's office, certainly passing information on to Israeli intelligence through AIPAC and possibly making US policy in turn. Feith has been described as the stupidest human being on the face of the planet, so it's doubtful any of the policy decisions coming out of his office were entirely his idea.

Consider that the loyalty of the Pentagon cabal is dubious, at best, that they all have a knee jerk mentality when it comes to policy towards Israel and its security, but were entirely willing to sacrifice US lives and prestige on a ruinous war based on what they knew were lies.

Consider also that this war against Iraq did absolutely nothing to enhance the security of the US, but did a great deal to enhance Israel's security, removing one hostile regime.

Personally, as a card carrying Jewtholic, I find any suggestion of a Jewish cabal offensive at first, but the evidence does continue to pile up that this war was not in our interest, at all. I do have to ask myself who has benefited from this war, and it's not all Halliburton and Carlyle.

The person questioning was making a point that many Jewish people(like Al and herself) do not agree with the Iraq war or neocon philosophy. Al answered correctly but fact is many anti-semites use the fact that neocons are mostly jewish to try to make it into a "jewish conspiracy" which is not a good thing.

I had no idea. Link? Not that I am doubting you, but I'm intrigued.

...in all sincerity, and at the risk of having this thread banashed... If Lieberman were not Jewish, would he be as gung ho for the Iraq war? If Bush had illegally invaded a country in another geographic region (say, South America), would Leiberman have been opposed to it?

really matter.

He's quite consistent, you can always count on Joe to vote with the Republicans. It really doesn't matter what his religion is other than the fact he is an embarrassment to Progressive Jews.

IMO, Joe's conservatism is the main factor here, not his religion. I believe he would support war in any part of the world because he has his head planted firmly up his ass and his lips permanently locked on President Asshat's backside.

the Republicans when he goes whining to the press about something. As for his voting record being quite Liberal, I'm sure you've overstated that.

However, I'll never forgive him for his treatment of Clinton during the Lewinsky scandal.

I'll say it again ... it doesn't matter that he is Jewish. He is a horrible Senator and I pray he gets voted out of office.

However, if he does, whatever would you Jew hating types do for fun?

Shall I start demonstrating how wrong you are?

Another Anti-Semite I don't need to engage in discussion.

You charge that Lieberman is "quite consistent,you can always count on Joe to vote with the Republicans."

However...

Lieberman earned a lifetime "Liberal Quotient" of 77 from the Americans for Democratic Action (ADA) for his votes since 1989. As a way of comparison, Dick Gephardt has received 71 percent approval from the liberal group over his congressional tenure. In 1999, Lieberman was assessed 95 percent from ADA while the American Conservative Union (ACU) gave him a zero for that year, making him one of the Senate’s eight most liberal Senators in 1999. His lifetime ACU rating: 19 percent.

Rated 100% by NARAL, indicating a pro-choice voting record.

Rated 25% by the US COC, indicating an anti-business voting record.

Rated 86% by the NEA, indicating pro-public education votes.

Rated 0% by the Christian Coalition

Rated 100% by APHA, indicating a pro-public health record.

Now, I've already shown that he isn't "quite consistent" in voting with Republicans. Should I make it even more conclusive?

Or can a reactionary type like you handle it? Why do I call you "reactionary?" Because I'm married into a family of Jewish heritage which kind of shoots down your silly theory of me being an anti-semite.

It always amazes me when those that parrot Anti-semitic rhetoric are offended when called on it.

But since you just can't stay away, why not address (if you can) my points above.

And while you're at it, explaine how it is anti-semetic to ask if Lieberman buys into the neocons's plans for the middle east because he believes it will benefit Israel?

Holy Joe is firmly in the pocket of the insurance industry and is a pro corporate and antilabor vote in Congress. However, he has a great record on civil liberties, much better than the "moderate" New England Repugs.

http://www.fightingterror.org/members/index.cfm

There are plenty of non-Jewish people here though. If there was a "threat" these guys could exploit in South America, we'd have our troops there instead.

And she might as well have been Bush's personal Iraq war cheerleader. Lieberman might have had some intention of pandering to Likud Jews, but his positions are mostly due to his sycophantic alliance with Bush. And he would support war in South America, Asia, Antarctica and and other place Bush wants to go to fuel his dreams of empire.

of much interest to me.

We can't read his mind, anyhow.

a poll conducted for the American Jewish Committee in September, 2004 showed 66% of Jewish Americans opposed the war in Iraq (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39745-2004Sep21.html)

the war in Iraq had zero possibility of making Israel safer ... the power vacuum created by toppling Saddam was easily visible before the invasion ... those who believed that the invasion of Iraq, be they Jewish or otherwise, would make Israel safer were foolish ...

They have far too much fun with their Jewish conspiracies and cabals. :tinfoilhat:

...mindset.

Does it make me anti-semetic to ask if Lieberman buys into the neocons's plans for the middle east because he believes it will benefit Israel?

has Lieberman said that he supported the PNAC agenda because it would help Israel? i must admit i don't pay much attention to what he says ...

and if Lieberman believes the invasion of Iraq was good for Israel, does he do so BECAUSE he's Jewish or because he's a hawkish moron???

if one were to argue that Lieberman supported the invasion of Iraq BECAUSE he is Jewish, i would consider that anti-semitic ... it would embody that "you're just saying that because you're a woman" kind of prejudice ...

... I haven't payed much attention myself, which is why I was asking.

It has been stated that Lieberman is very pro -Israel. So I don't think my question is anti-semitic. I don't see anyone here arguing that Lieberman supported the invasion of Iraq BECAUSE he is Jewish but rather asking if anyone thought it had any role.

Lieberman did say that victory in Iraq opens the door to a resolution for the Israel/Palestinian conflict.

He just happens to be a Jewish Neo-Con.

Which just goes to show that "neocon" is neither Jewish nor Gentile--just TRAITOROUS.

Which is why when neocons like Libby start whining that criticism of them is "anti-semitic", it's a LIE and a straw man argument.

role of the state of Israel in this war or in the possible upcoming wars with Syria or Iran, nor can you ignore the roles of her rabid neocon supporters. It's unfortunate that the questioner doesn't refer to the Israeli nation rather than to Jews. It's a national/governmental issue, not a ethnic/religious issue.

It doesn't particularly matter if there is some strange connection between the Jewish neocons. What matters is that those questions are at most tangential to the real issues of oppression and war profiteering, and that discussing such topics opens us to ridicule and association with anti-Semitism. It also confuses our message when we want a clear focus on the pointless and destructive nature of the Iraq war. Talking about "Jewish conspiracies" is a bad idea for the same reason that bringing Free Mumia to the DC anti-war rally was a bad idea.

Thanks for that.

One other consequence of such discussions is that it creates doubt as to the motivation of the posters for some of us.

and I'll see this kind of crap a lot.

They'll be a lecture in an auditorium and at the end they'll ask for questions and 40 people will start lining up behind a microphone and the first person will star making a speech that has little to do with anything the speaker was thewre to speak about and eventually the person has to ask him, "do you have a question?" and the guy always says he's getting to it, but they always have to cut him off because he never does get to a question.

It makes me think of masturbation.