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Open Letter to Howard Dean, Re: "Election Fraud"

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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:44 AM
Original message
Open Letter to Howard Dean, Re: "Election Fraud"
FAXED TO DNC HQ: (202) 863-8174

Dear Chairman Dean and the DNC,

Got your newsletter: "Democrats will take back the House and the Senate in 2006. Send money."

I'd love to help out, but I can't bear to witness more pure hearts breaking because of election fraud. Apparently the DNC refuses to take it seriously, so here's what I'm going to do - because for me, it's dead serious.

1.VOTING RIGHTS HERO #1
I'm going to $upport Bob Fitrakis for Ohio Governor, because Bob's going to talk about election fraud every chance he gets.
He is the incredible attorney/journalist/activist who led the citizen investigation of the Ohio Vote Fraud. Author of
"How George W. Bush Stole the 2004 Election." and editor of the Columbus FreePress.
BTW, (no surprise to anybody) Fitrakis is a Green. http://www.bobforohio.com/

2.VOTING RIGHTS HERO #2
I'm going to send $ to John Bonifaz, who's running for SOS in Massachusetts. I really believe he should be President - ASAP.

http://www.johnbonifaz.com/ This is the guy who created AfterDowningStreet.org and the National Voting Rights Institute, who wrote "Warrior-King: The Case for Impeaching George W Bush" and will institute the Voter Bill of Rights,

3.POTENTIAL HEROES - we ALL win!
I'm going to ask all my vote-loving pals to sign the petition supporting the Rush-Holt bill, immediately.
http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html Now there's legislation that should have passed YESTERDAY.

4. OBAMA STEPS UP!
Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) has introduced a bill, S. 1975, The Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act of 2005. I'm calling Senator Boxer to stand with him. This could put lots of Repug thugs on notice for the 2006 election.
www.congress.org

Chairman Dean, how are YOU going to lead?

I don't want to read any DNC decrees. There's a war being waged by the Republican touchscreen companies to eat up our Democracy. THIS IS AN EMERGENCY. I know you're aware of this.

I saw you Dr. Dean, you sat there with Bev Harris, and she showed you how easy it was to hack the vote. "Whoa!" you said. I know you have Mark Crispin Miller's excellent "Fooled Again: How the Right Stole the 2004 Election & Why They'll Steal the Next One Too." AND I know Rev. Jesse Jackson put you with Bob Fitrakis to hear about the Ohio Fraud.

Where'd you go, Howard??
You know we've already lost Ohio to Diebold Republicans?
Doesn't Ohio figure in your master plan to take back the White House?
What about Florida? No? Don't need that state either?
I'm sure you know that North Carolina just caved and certified Diebold, didn't you? OOPS!
And California, about be railroaded by SOS McPherson into buying bad machines. That okay with you, too?

Not a penny, not one phone call, not one online electron will I give to the Democratic Party until you seriously address the fraudulent election process that caused us to lose the last election.

Get the DNC on board, get some guts and get it done.

Onward, as sincere as they come,

Sheri Leigh Myers
Election Reform Activist
Los Angeles

p.s. And just to show how sincere I am, I'm asking 1000 of my vote-loving web friends to substitute their names and fax this letter to you at the DNC, (202) 863-8174, give $$ to Fitrakis and Bonifaz and ask all their friends to do the same.
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Al-CIAda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. r'd.
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. I just think it'd be easier, faster, and have a MUCH larger response...
Edited on Sun Dec-04-05 11:00 AM by zann725
if we ALL signed YOUR letter...as a petition...and YOU forard it. I currently have a non-working printer. And no personal fax machine. I would be glad however to sign on to your letter...as a petititon... directly. In one or two days on DU, we could have a large list of sign-ups for your letter.

I totally agree Dean IS the man to bring this Election Fraud to the forefront NOW.
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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I can't thank you enough for posting this
I have been giving to the DNC with voter fraud on the forefront of my mind. I have no confidence in the system. I would gladly sign a petition....

again thank so much reprehensor for your research.
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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Didn't the Dem's' call Dean in for a little talk some time ago?
if I remember correctly, they were distancing themselves from him when he was attacking Delay, Biden was part of the group, ever since then I notice Dean has been more cautious.
the re pub's are laughing at us, they know how timid the Dem's are over controversy. If the shoe was on the other foot how would they be behaving!
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Talismom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. An excellent post that spoke from my heart! Kicked, copied and sent! n/t
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
6. Shilling for a Green Party candidate on Democratic Underground?
Hmmm...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Hmmmmmmmm, he's running as an independent.
And if a MOONIE works as hard for our elections as Bob has, I'LL VOTE FOR THE MOONIE. And if you care about your party so much, you should, too, because you've been ripped off twice in a row now.

What a silly misapplication of the word "shill".
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. FITRAKIS IS RUNNING AS A *GREEN* , according to his website.
http://www.bobforohio.com/press/

...he has been endorsed by the Green Party of Ohio and will be seeking the party's nomination as candidate for Governor next spring, along with two other fraudbusting veterans: Anita Rios (Lt. Governor) and Tim Kettler (Secretary of State). Together they will spearhead the Green Party campaign to clean up the sleaze that has become so entrenched with the two major parties and their big money patrons.

(snip)

At the November 29th event, the Coordinating Committee of the Green Party of Ohio will officially announce their endorsement of the Fitrakis, Rios, and Kettler slate, and their intention to submit these candidates for nomination at the 2006 Green Party Convention to be held early next year.


...and he is bashing the Democratic Party.

Sorry, I don't see how that is appropriate for Democratic Underground.

Advocacy = shill + negative connotation, no? The post advocates for a person who is running against the Democratic Party. The post is inappropriate for Democratic Underground. Therefore I think "shill" is perfectly well applied here.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. He's running as a Green? Great! Now I have one more reason
to vote for him. :hi:
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Myself,,, I am voting Green over ANY DLCer
Just my votes. LOL I do draw the line at giving them $$$, but I will not give any DLC money either.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Even if it takes votes from the Dem (prob'ly Strickland) and throws the
race to the republican? (Blackwell, if I understand correctly)

??

What is your problem with Strickland, anyway?
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. democracy = choosing the one you want regardless of afiliation nt
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Democratic = Democratic Party according to DU Rules
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

Scroll down to the section

Democratic Candidates and the Democratic Party

....

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic Party candidate.


...and please note my above post where I link to Fitrakis' website which states that he is running as a Green (not a Dem or an independent) AND bashes the Democratic Party.

Whether the mods choose to enforce this rule or not is beyond my control (and I will not comment on their decisions - they have their reasons), but it is right there in black and white.
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NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
54. Democratic principles should take precedence over arbitrary affiliations
NoFederales

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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #54
90. Bravo, well said. Vote only for Democrats that support Democratic
princilples. That may leave out Hillary.
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. Better America=When dems are in power,Worse America=When reps are in power
I support anyone's right to vote for anyone they want. I have signed every election reform petition that I see on DU. However, I recognize the fact that about about 90% of voting Americans are very or somewhat confident that their vote counts. Does that mean we shouldn't try to do anything about election reform? No. But my strategy would be to get as many dems in power as possible (we did it in NJ and VA in 05), only then will we have the power to get the election reform we want.

I don't think that voting green, withholding money from dems, while republicans win is going to help the cause. If you do, that is your right. I respectfully disagree.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #26
91. So you'd support Zell Miller ?? nt
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #91
99. Why not ask "If Hitler came back from the dead and ran as a dem"
"would you support him?"
Let's deal in the real world right now. You know what I am saying. If dems where the majority party right now, America would be better off for it. If you disagree that is your right.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #99
100. Zell Miller is an extreme example
I admit, but Hitler would be absurd. I was going for extreme. I hear what you are saying, but this is a huge issue for us Democrats. Do we demand control of the Party or let the big money have control and determine our choices. I am a Democrat and support Democratic candidates. However, there is a danger here.
Just because we are Democrats doesn’t mean we are immune from being manipulated. Using Senator Clinton as an example: Is she the Democratic front runner because there was/is a major grassroots effort to support her? I don’t think so. Not this early. I think she has a big money machine behind her. Big money prefers Republicans but would settle for Democrats they can influence with their money. Is winning more important than maintaining our Democratic standards? Does Senator Clinton, for example, support Democratic Principles? It isn’t much of a choice if both candidates are owned by big money.
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #100
105. I hear ya on the Clinton thing.
She will probably be my last choice for the 08 nomination. But still, I'd prefer her over any republican any day.
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
28. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Edited on Sun Dec-04-05 01:20 PM by RagingInMiami
Wouldn't that still make him a progressive?
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Please refer to this post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2289885&mesg_id=2290032

And, IMO 'Green' does not necessarily make one 'progressive'. I used to think so, but I had a rude awakening.

(Oh, and I don't think being a Dem necessarily makes one the best candidate either. I merely a) point to the published rules for this site, and b) down below I ask people from Ohio, and presumably familiar with their governor's race, why people should work against the Democratic candidate in this race. Which is what the op is asking for.)
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Please enlighten me about your rude awakening
Because I think the Greens are the most progressive party out there, even though I have yet to vote for one. I still haven't felt comfortable knowing my vote is being cast to the sure loser.
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. The OP is not asking for it.
The OP posted a letter from Sheri Myers because he thought it was important enough to post.

reprehensor is not Sheri Myers. I know this because I am married to reprehensor, and he is not a woman.

fsc
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. There is ONE cosponsor on Obama's bill: John Kerry
However, Ms. Myers does not see fit to give any credit there.

Got it.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
8. Thank you for putting this together. GREAT! I'm going to fax a copy. Rec!
I really appreciate it when we're given easy ways to make a lot of noise. I'm sending this out to MY contact list, too!

WAKE UP DNC!! Why should we support you if you won't support US?

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
9. You got it, Sheri. Well done! When you're done, mail him the thread.
That has been my plan exactly.

Whenever I get a request, I politely decline and invite the writer to notify me when they've done something for election reform.

:toast:
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
13. Kicked & fax sent!!!
Excellent letter!!!!!

Thanks!
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. That's right! Scream your head off about this!
Keep doing it until they listen!
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
19. OHIO folks: why not support Strickland???
Instead of donating to Ftrakis, why not donate to a good Dem?

Why would Fitrakis be preferable to Strickland?

Is it possible Fitrakis will divide the Dems and give the race to Blackwell?

Or will it inspire the DLC to throw more corpoate weight around (thus making certain people more beholden to them) to avert that disaster?

Anyone want to weigh in with some discussion of the facts of the OH-Gov race?

(I am not from Ohio. I did a cursory review of the OH State forum to see who is running as a Democrat; that's what is inspiring these questions)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yes, Strickland is a Democrat.
I agree with you on that.

You and I seem to be the only ones who really care about this.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
21. Sheri, are you advocating taking support from the Democratic Party?
It sounds like it.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #21
94. If the Democratic Party leadership sells out to big business, then
we need to stop supporting them. Support Democrats that support Democracy, not Democrats that are owned by big corporations. Who owns Hillary??
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
22. Well said. The Dems really need to get on top of this issue.
Or they will continue to lose, whether they win or not.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
23. Done.
When you feel your interests are not being represented you must stand up and make your issues known. This is our biggest issue. We can't get anything done if we can't get our people in with our votes.

Kicked and recommended.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
24. Why was this resolution made fun of here at DU?
I hear that the voting issue was discussed in Phoenix as well. Why when this resolution was posted here at DU a week or so ago was it ignored?

It shows the party is still looking into things, yet some absolutely made fun of it.

DNC Resolution in Support of Election Reform
The following resolution will be considered by the DNC Resolutions Committee at its meeting on December 1, 2005, in conjunction with the meetings of the Democratic National Committee,
December 1-3, 2005.

Submitted by: Donna L. Brazile, At Large/District of Columbia
Hartina Flournoy, At-Large/District of Columbia
Ben Johnson, At Large/District of Columbia

Resolution in Support of Election Reform

WHEREAS, in June, 2005, the Democratic National Committee completed its exhaustive
review of the presidential campaign in Ohio; and

WHEREAS, the resulting report, “Democracy at Risk: The 2004 Election in Ohio” documents
that more than one quarter of Ohio voters reported problems with their voting experience, and
African Americans were more than two times as likely as white voters to claim they encountered
problems with their voting experience; and

WHEREAS, this report confirms evidence of widespread voter confusion; voter suppression;
negligence and incompetence on the part of election officials; long lines at the polls; improper
requests for voter identification, particularly among young voters and African American voters;
the failure to properly process absentee ballots and the improper use of provisional ballots in
Ohio on Election Day 2004; and

WHEREAS, evaluations of the administrative processes and technology used by election
officials in Ohio revealed that inadequate and insecure voting systems were pervasive
throughout Ohio—unreliable punch card systems and insecure, unverifiable direct record
electronic (DRE) machines; and

WHEREAS, 71 percent of white voters in Ohio were very confident their vote was counted but
only 19 percent of African American voters were confident their votes were counted; and

WHEREAS, the right to vote and to have that vote accurately counted is the bedrock on which
our democracy stands and nothing is more fundamental to our freedom than our confidence in
the integrity of our democratic institutions; and

WHEREAS, “Democracy at Risk: The 2004 Election in Ohio” makes recommendations for
future action by parties, legislators and local election officials to improve future elections;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Democratic National Committee (DNC) will
continue to work with Members of Congress, lawmakers in all 50 United States, the District of
Columbia, and all U.S. Territories, local election officials, and community leaders to update and
reform our election laws to ensure that voter confidence in our election system is restored and
maintained;

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC “Democracy at Risk: The 2004 Election in
Ohio” recommends several actions; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends states, the District of Columbia
and all U. S. Territories codify into law all required election practices, including requirements for
the adequate training of official poll workers; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommend lawmakers adopt uniform and clear
published standards for the distribution of voting equipment and the assignment of official poll
workers among precincts, to ensure adequate and nondiscriminatory access, and that these
procedures be based on set ratios of numbers of machines and poll workers per number of voters
expected to turn out, and should be made available for pub lic comment before being adopted;
and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers adopt legislation to
make clear and uniform the rules on voter registration; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers and local election
officials adopt clear and uniform rules on the use of, and the counting of, provisional ballots, and
distribute them for public comment well in advance of each Election Day, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends touch screen (DRE) machines not
be used until a reliable voter verifiable audit feature can be uniformly incorporated into these
systems and that in the event of a recount, the paper or other auditable record should be
considered the official record; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends remaining punch card systems
should be discontinued; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers make it easier for
college students to vote in the jurisdiction in which their school is located; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers develop procedures to
ensure that voting is facilitated, without compromising security or privacy, for all eligible voters
living overseas; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers make voter suppression
a criminal offense in all states, the District of Columbia and all U.S. Territories; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers and election officials
should improve the training of poll workers.

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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. I don't know.
:shrug:
Anyone?
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. It's a very weak statement ...given that there are those of us involved
now in fighting to get DRE's out before HAVA DEADLINE in January (the date varies by state)

I'm a total supporter of Howard Dean...but this "Resolution" does NOTHING TO HELP US FIGHTING IN OUR STATES ON THE GROUND to keep these "toilet paper receipt companies" from putting their machines in.

It's a nice effort....but it comes down to "nice." :shrug: Sorry...but that's how I see it trying to keep machines out of NC which don't allow a "Paper Marked Ballot Recount."
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blue4barb Donating Member (367 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
25. Excellent, we must keep the election fraud issue alive! k/r
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In Truth We Trust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
29. Paper ballots NOW! Hand counts NOW!!!
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Humor_In_Cuneiform Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
33. Yes! And another petition in the same spirit:
Edited on Sun Dec-04-05 02:36 PM by Humor_In_Cuneiform
:applause: :applause: :applause:


Way to go DU and all who are raising a ruckus about this critically important problem!

It isn't an issue, it is a threat to our Democracy.

And here is another petition in the same spirit started a while back:

http://www.petitiononline.com/no4etabs/petition.html

Address The Biggest Threat To Our Democracy Petition


"To: Electoral Reform Groups, U.S. Congress
We have grave concerns about voting in our Democracy. We believe the main threat to our Democracy is not currently being addressed.

Paper trails for ballots only matter if an election is close enough to "justify" a recount, and if an honest recount can be accomplished.

The Tabulators can be hacked into in order to create an artificially large difference in votes between candidates. So without a recount, the "paper trail," if it exists remains irrelevent.

If a recount is done, there is no guarantee it will be done openly and honestly (Ohio 2004), so again the paper trail may be irrelevant. Also recounts are costly as was seen this election cycle.

We have to get it right the first time, by addressing the Tabulator and Electronic voting problem. We need to get Electronic voting and hackable Tabulators out of our election system.

Until and unless they can developed with open source code and non partisan verification of their accuracy and security, we can not have faith in a system that relies on electronic voting and Tabulators.

Otherwise we see no point in taking part in any actions to demand a paper trail and/or deal with myriad types of vote fraud and intimidation. If we ONLY take care of all the other problems, we could easily find ourselves wondering again in 2006 and 2008 "what went wrong?"

We will not participate until and unless the Tabulator and Electronic voting problem is first or simultaneously addressed."

http://www.petitiononline.com/no4etabs/petition.html
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Humor_In_Cuneiform Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
34. Howard Dean was present for the BBV Demo of how a monkey was
trained in 10 minutes to hack the tabulator count.

That was prior to the last election.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
102. Are you sure that he was present?
Because he sure hasn't been speaking aout about this.
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Humor_In_Cuneiform Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #102
110. Votergate the Movie
"...Votergate the Movie available for free download < http://www.votergate.tv > contains footage from a national TV broadcast of Bev Harris instructing Howard Dean how to hack GEMS and untraceably alter vote tallies in under two minutes. Additional vulnerabilities have since been found and publicized at http://www.blackboxvoting.org. ..."

http://www.califelectprotect.net/home.html




Try googling "Bev monkey trained tabulator Howard Dean:"

http://www.google.com/search?q=Bev+monkey+trained+tabulator+Howard+Dean&hl=en&lr=&start=0&sa=N
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
35. Done - and I'll spread the word as well. nt.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
36. Curious, does the green party have it's own message board to
gather donations from unsuspecting and undecided voters or is it common practice to ensure donations do not go to the Dem party by going to a Democratic message board to ask for donations and or aid in helping someone who is not a dem to be victorious in an election?

I agree with Madfloridian, this is self defeating to allow this post to remain on democratic underground considering the many frustrated members of this party towards it's consituients and is a huge attack on not only Howard Dean but the entire Democratic party...

Nothing wrong with wanting three parties in an effort to ensure balance in the government which is not a bad thing to ensure we remain a democratic nation but this is an out and out attack on a Dem that some felt cared about more than big corporations and the wrong forum to push such in and seriously delutes his credibility for those that don't take time to do their own research..


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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
37. Besides Strickland, a democrat, who else is running in Ohio?
I am surprised to see that many on the election reform forum advocate donating to Fitrakis over Strickland.

Do you have enough power there to win with Fitrakis? He is a good man, but running as a Green or Independent, will he be able to win?

Is Strickland so bad as to be worthy of your posting to withhold support from him?

Or will it just throw the election to the GOP?
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
38. A couple things...

  1. I'm not Sheri.

  2. Although e-vote fraud is not the entire problem, it's part of it. The other part of the problem, disenfranchisement, is thoroughly discussed in John Conyer's Minority Report, Preserving Democracy: What Went Wrong in Ohio.

  3. Contrary to some spin, the GAO report confirms key 2004 stolen election findings.

  4. The '04 election results fly in the face of historical precedence.

  5. Et tu, New Mexico?

  6. Punching the DNC in the checkbook is apparently the only way to get their attention. I think it's a brilliant strategy. It's simple, Dean addresses the problem, the contributors come back.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. So you are saying withhold funds and give to a Green candidate?
Well, what have you got to put in the place of the party? Who will lead you?

And I thought we had some good wins last month. How did we do that if it was all fixed.
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
39. DON'T AGREE WITH RUSH-HOLT BILL


I THINK WE SHOULD USE ONLY PAPER BALLOTS. THIS BILL STATES A "VOTING SYSTEM" SHOULD PROVIDE A HARD COPY FOR THE VOTER. UNFORTUNATELY, THAT DOESN'T ASSURE YOU OF AN HONEST TALLY.

ANY TIME YOU ARE USING ELECTRONNIC VOTING MACHINES, EVEN WITH A PAPER OUT-PUT, YOU STILL DON'T KNOW HOW THE VOTES ARE BEING TALLIED AND IF THEY ARE BEING MANIPULATED - UNLESS, EVERYBODY GOT TOGETHER AFTER THE ELECTION AND STARTED COUNTING UP THE VOTES.

THE ONLY WAY TO GO IS WITH A STRAIT PAPER BALLOT. OTHERWISE THE REPUBS WILL MAKE REAL ELECTIONS SOMETHING ONLY READ ABOUT IN HISTORY BOOKS.
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kansasblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
41. what if: helping Bob win on a Green ticket really help the Dems ...
in the long run.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. How?
Would you say what if not donating to the Democrats helped the Democrats as well? Makes as much sense.

I have nothing bad to say about Greens or Independents. I just think they can have their own party without hurting the Democrats.

I think the goal right now IS to hurt the Democrats, and I say that sadly.
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
44. The Conyers Report: What Went Wrong in Ohio...
Madfloridian, it's simple, Dean addresses the problem, and everybody plays nice again. I think Sheri has a good idea, I think Fitrakis is a great candidate.

Quit baiting me and tell me how you are addressing Election Fraud. Because my money is going to support candidates who address the problem, not to candidates who have their heads in the sand, who aren't even ready for the last election.

Please keep bumping the thread, it's getting more 'Greatest' votes.

Let's look at several cases from What Went Wrong in Ohio... (Moderators, this is all public domain, there won't be any copyright issues.)

There were numerous, significant unexplained irregularities in other counties throughout the state: (i) in Mahoning conty at least 25 electronic machines transferred an unknown number of Kerry votes to the Bush column; (ii) Warren County locked out public observers from vote counting citing an FBI warning about a potential terrorist threat, yet the FBI states that it issued no such warning; (iii) the voting records of Perry county show significantly more votes than voters in some precincts, significantly less ballots than voters in other precincts, and voters casting more than one ballot; (iv) in Butler county a down ballot and underfunded Democratic State Supreme Court candidate implausibly received more votes than the best funded Democratic Presidential candidate in history; (v) in Cuyahoga county, poll worker error may have led to little known thirdparty candidates receiving twenty times more votes than such candidates had ever received in otherwise reliably Democratic leaning areas; (vi) in Miami county, voter turnout was an improbable and highly suspect 98.55 percent, and after 100 percent of the precincts were reported, an additional 19,000 extra votes were recorded for President Bush.

- P.6, What Went Wrong in Ohio, PDF

--------------------------------------------

The voting computer company Triad has essentially admitted that it engaged in a course of behavior during the recount in numerous counties to provide “cheat sheets” to those counting the ballots. The cheat sheets informed election officials how many votes they should find for each candidate, and how many over and under votes they should calculate to match the machine count. In that way, they could avoid doing a full county-wide hand recount mandated by state law.

- P.7, ibid.

--------------------------------------------

We have received numerous reports of transfers of votes for Senator Kerry to votes for President Bush. Specifically, in Youngstown, the Washington Post reported that their investigation revealed 25 electronic machines transferred an unknown number of Kerry votes to the Bush column. Jeanne White, a veteran voter and manager at the Buckeye Review, an African American newspaper, stepped into the booth, pushed the button for Kerry – and watched her vote jump to the Bush column. “I saw what happened; I started screaming: ‘They’re cheating again and they’re starting early!” The Election Protection Coalition also confirmed these voting “glitches” noting that a “voter reported “Every time I tried to vote for the Democratic Party Presidential vote the machine went blank. I had to keep trying, it took 5 times.”...

...There is also information, still being investigated, that in several precincts, there were more votes counted by machine than signatures in poll books (which includes absentee voters). This would mean that more people voted by machine at a precinct than actually appeared at that location. For example, in CMP 4C Precinct, there were 279 signatures and 280 machine votes. In BLV 1 Precinct, there were 396 signatures but 398 machine votes. In AUS 12 Precinct, there were 372 signatures but 376 machine votes. In POT 1 Precinct, there were 479 signatures but 482 machine votes, and in YGN 6F Precinct, there were 270 signatures but 273 machine votes. It would appear from these numbers that the machines counted more votes than voters.

Secretary of State Blackwell has refused to answer any of the questions concerning these matters posed to him by Ranking Member Conyers and 11 other Members of the Judiciary Committee on December 2, 2004.

- P.52-53, ibid.

--------------------------------------------

In Butler County, a Democratic candidate for State Supreme Court, C. Ellen Connally, received 59,532 votes. In contrast, the Kerry-Edwards ticket received only 54,185 votes, 5,000 less than the State Supreme Court candidate. Additionally, the victorious Republican candidate for State Supreme Court received approximately 40,000 less votes than the Bush-Cheney ticket. Further, Connally received 10,000 or more votes in excess of Kerry’s total number of votes in five counties and 5,000 more votes in excess of Kerry’s total in ten others.

- P.54, ibid.

--------------------------------------------

It appears implausible that 5,000 voters waited in line to cast votes for an underfunded Democratic Supreme Court candidate and then declined to cast a vote for the most wellfunded Democratic Presidential campaign in history. We have been able to ascertain no answer to the question of how an underfunded Democratic State Supreme Court candidate could receive such a disproportionately large number of votes in Butler County over the Kerry-Edwards ticket. This raises the possibility that thousands votes for Senator Kerry were lost, either through manipulation or mistake. The loss of these votes would likely violate constitutional protections of equal protection and due process; if manipulation is involved, that would also violate the Voting Rights Act and Ohio election law. This anomaly calls for an investigation, which Mr. Blackwell has failed to initiate.

- P.55, ibid.

--------------------------------------------

On election day, a computerized voting machine in ward 1B in the Gahana precinct of Franklin County recorded a total of 4,258 votes for President Bush and 260 votes for Democratic challenger John Kerry. However, there are only 800 registered voters in that Gahana precinct, and only 638 people cast votes at the New Life Church polling site. It has since been discovered that a computer glitch resulted in the recording of 3,893 extra votes for President George W. Bush – the numbers were adjusted to show President Bush’s true vote count at 365 votes and Senator Kerry’s at 260 votes.

- P.57, ibid.

--------------------------------------------

In Miami County, voter turnout was a highly suspect and improbable 98.55 percent. With 100% of the precincts reporting on Wednesday, November 3, 2004, President Bush received 20,807 votes, or 65.80% of the vote, and Senator Kerry received 10,724 votes, or 33.92% of the vote. Thus, Miami reported a total of 31,620 voters. Inexplicably, nearly 19,000 new ballots were added after all precincts reported, boosting President Bush’s vote count to 33,039, or 65.77%, while Senator Kerry’s vote percentage stayed exactly the same to three one-hundredths of a percentage point at 33.92 percent. Roger Kearney of Rhombus Technologies, Ltd., the reporting company responsible for vote results of Miami County, stated that the problem was not with his reporting and that the additional 19,000 votes were added before 100% of the precincts were in.

Mr. Kearney’s statement does not explain how the vote count could change for President Bush, but not for Senator Kerry, after 19,000 new votes were added to the roster. Thus, we are primarily concerned with identifying a valid explanation for the statistical anomaly that showed virtually identical ratios after the final 20-40% of the votes were counted. Specifically, we have received no explanation as to how the vote count in this particular county could have changed for President Bush, but not for Senator Kerry, after 19,000 new votes were added to the roster. The vote results in Miami constitute yet another significant anomaly in the tens of thousands range without any explanation or investigation by Secretary of State Blackwell, leading us to conclude that there is likely some vote error or vote manipulation. This could constitute a violation of constitutional guarantees of equal protection and due process and, if intentional, would likely violate the Voting Rights Act and Ohio election law.

- P.58-59, ibid.

--------------------------------------------

In another precinct in Perry County, W Lexington G AB, 350 voters are registered according to the County’s initial tallies. Yet, 434 voters cast ballots. As the tallies indicate, this would be an impossible 124% voter turnout. The breakdown on election night was initially reported to be 174 votes for Bush, and 246 votes for Kerry. We are advised that the Perry County Board of Elections has since issued a correction claiming that, due to a computer error, some votes were counted twice. We are advised that the new tallies state that only people voted, and the tally is 90 votes for Bush and 127 votes for Kerry. This would make it appear that virtually every ballot was counted twice, which seems improbable.

In Madison Township, Precinct AAS, a review of the poll books shows that 481 people signed in to vote on election day, yet the Perry County Board of Elections is reporting that votes were cast in that precinct, a difference of 13 votes. The same discrepancy appears with respect to Monroe Township AAV. The poll books show that 384 people signed in on election day to vote, while the Perry County Board of Elections reports that 393 votes were cast, a difference of 9 votes.

- P.60-61

--------------------------------------------

In Auglaize County, there were voting machine errors. In a letter dated October 21, 2004, Ken Nuss, former deputy director of the County Board of Elections, claimed that Joe McGinnis, a former employee of ES&S, the company that provides the voting systems in Auglaize County, had access to and used the main computer that is used to create the ballot and compile election results. Mr. McGinnis’s access to and use of the main computer was a violation of county board of election protocol. After calling attention to this irregularity in the voting system, Mr. Nuss was suspended and then resigned.

In Mahoning County, one precinct in Youngstown recorded a negative 25 million votes.

In Mercer County, one voting machine showed that 289 people cast punch card ballots, but only 51 votes were recorded for president. The county’s website appeared to show a similar anomaly, reporting that 51,818 people cast ballots but only 47,768 ballots were recorded in the presidential race, including 61 write-ins, meaning that approximately 4,000 votes, or nearly 7%, were not counted for a presidential candidate.

- P.66, Ibid.

--------------------------------------------

Perhaps the most disturbing irregularity that we have learned of in connection with the recount concerns the activities and operations of Triad GSI, a voting machine company. On December 13, 2004, House Judiciary Committee Democratic-staff met with Ms. Sherole Eaton, Deputy Director of Elections for Hocking County. She explained that on Friday, December 10, 2004, Michael Barbian, Jr., a representative of Triad GSI, unilaterally sought and obtained access to the voting machinery and records in Hocking County, Ohio.

Ms. Eaton witnessed Mr. Barbian modify the Hocking County computer vote tabulator before the announcement of the Ohio recount. She further witnessed Barbian, upon the announcement that the Hocking County precinct was planned to be the subject of the initial Ohio test recount, make further alterations based on his knowledge of that information. She also has firsthand knowledge that Barbian advised election officials how to manipulate voting machinery to ensure that a preliminary hand recount matched the machine count...

...The Directors of the Board of Elections in both Fulton and Henry County stated that the Triad company had reprogrammed the computer by remote dial-up to count only the presidential votes prior to the start of the recount.

In Monroe County, the 3% hand-count failed to match the machine count twice. Subsequent runs on that machine did not match each other nor the hand count. The Monroe County Board of Elections summoned a repairman from Triad to bring a new machine and the recount was suspended and reconvened for the following day. On the following day, a new machine was present at the Board of Elections office and the old machine was gone. The Board conducted a test run followed by the 3% hand-counted ballots. The results matched this time and the Board conducted the remainder of the recount by machine.

In Harrison County, a representative of the Triad company reprogrammed and retested the tabulator machine and software prior to the start of the recount. The Harrison County tabulating computer is connected to a second computer which is linked to the Secretary of State’s Office in Columbus. The Triad technician handled all ballots during the machine recount and performed all tabulation functions. The Harrison County Board of Elections kept voted ballots and unused ballots in a room open to direct public access during daytime hours when the courthouse is open. The Board had placed voted ballots in unsealed transfer cases stored in an old wooden cabinet that, at one point, was said to be lockable and, at another point, was said to be unlockable.

Based on the above, including actual admissions and statements by Triad employees, it strongly appears that Triad and its employees engaged in a course of behavior to provide “cheat sheets” to those counting the ballots. The cheat sheets told them how many votes they should find for each candidate, and how many over and under votes they should calculate to match the machine count. In that way, they could avoid doing a full county-wide hand recount mandated by state law. If true, this would frustrate the entire purpose of the recount law – to randomly ascertain if the vote counting apparatus is operating fairly and effectively, and if not to conduct a full hand recount. By ensuring that election boards are in a position to conform their test recount results with the election night results, Triad’s actions may well have prevented scores of counties from conducting a full and fair recount in compliance with equal protection, due process, and the first amendment.

- P.81-83, Ibid.


This doesn't even touch the rampant disenfranchisement.

Where is the DNC on this?

AWOL.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. You don't have to "play nice". You can have your own party.
I posted a recent resolution, Mainedem posted it also...it was laughed at.

You can have your own third party. No gripes with that. Just don't pretend to be withholding support when most are not Democats anyway!

Many are pretending to be Democrats withholding support, and they are Greens who have no intention of donating. And not just greens.

I never mentioned your name. I can not be said to be baiting. I referred to the letter by Myers. I though you were Myers.

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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. I'd rather see reform in the DNC gameplan, but thanks for the offer!
I never laughed at your 'resolution' so stop sticking it in my face. Believe it or not, it's not all about you. It's not all about me. It's about guaranteeing a FAIR vote, we simply disagree on tactics.

Sheri's tactic might work. God knows that nicely asking Howard and the DNC to get it together has not.

I think your assertion about Greens posing as Dems is absolute ad hominem crap.

But please, bump the thread again, this topic needs more attention.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. But I refer to the letter.
Sheri appears to be a Green. Would she be donating anyway to the Democrats?

I am so sorry you took this personally. I referred to the letter, and I thought you were the writer. It did bother me a lot, as I know how very hard Dean is working to build up the parties in the states. We are working hard here in our area as well.

I think it is quite possible for the Greens and PDA to have their third party, but it does not have to done at the expense of those of us who are trying to rebuild the financial structure of the party.

Think about it, how will the congressional party leaders fight the companies like Diebold if they have to be reliant on them for funds?
If the candidate committees of the DNC keep taking corporate money, nothing will change.

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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. Kind of an Escher sketch, isn't it?
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

The DNC is not doing squat on this issue. That's the point.

This tactic sure got your attention, didn't it? Presumably it'll work at the DNC office, too.

24 votes for greatest. Bump it again, please.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. It got my attention because it is unfairly targeting one person.
It this time in our country I think that is unwise.

None of you are paying any attention to what I am trying to point out....your goal is to blame one man.

I do not respect that. I think it is totally unfair.

When they put out a document, you guys just laugh. Nothing they ever do will please.

So keep kicking and kicking. Go ahead. Nothing will please.

Why don't you talk to the congressional Democrats who refused to challenge it? Call them out. Like you are all constantly calling Dean out on the war and on elections.

Call out the ones who did not count the votes. I dare you.
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election_2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
46. Adding my KICK
Dean realistically is in the most influential possession to make ELECTION FRAUD a centerpiece of national debate.

When you exercise the broken record technique, the media can only ignore your issue for so long.
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
49. Thanks!!!
K&R
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
50. Dean HAS to address what HAS HAPPENED. Not just how he wants to
carry out future campaigns. That is THE big problem for him with so many of us. We just witnessed a colossal case of election fraud in Ohio. What is he saying about that? What is he saying about North Carolina? About California? About New Mexico?

When a crime has been committed, you need to address THAT crime -- not just how to prevent crimes in the future.
Dean's need to be seen as "nice" and palatable is undermining Democratic advances nationwide.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. It is his job to plan future campaigns. He is doing his job.
Go to Kerry and Edwards, and talk to them. Have them publicize and push it.

This is bordering on the ridiculous that you guys think one man is responsible for all the debacles lately.

It is truly bordering on ridiculous.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. "yappy dog posts" new one.
.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. "You obviously have absolutely NOTHING meaningful to say"
Yes, I do, and I have said it without attacking anyone.

I have said third parties can accomplish a lot, they are not bad things to have. I also said that on the way to third party is it not necessary to harm the Democrats.
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. Regardless of the fact that Dean is THE head of the DNC, you CONTINUOUSLY
argue against his responsibility to fight election fraud. Post after post after post after post.

The issue isn't about some 3rd party taking over -- it's about the Dem. leaders (Dean is the #1 Dem leader) addressing this issue SERIOUSLY!!! They have continued to ignore and stonewall their constituents on the matter -- and they need to see that their lack of support of *us* will cost them *our* support.

Our Dem leaders are "harming" their constituents, Democratic candidates, and democracy itself by not taking on this outrage.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. It is about 3rd party, you may just not realize it.
I am all for election reforms, trust me. I just think you guys are blaming one man who had nothing to do with it.

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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. The only thing that election fraud has to do with 3rd parties is the vote-
stealing machines diversion of votes for Dems to 3rd party candidates.

Dean is the #1 Dem leader, therefore it is HIS responsibility to be fighting election fraud every single day. He needs to address it every time he speaks in public. I've received two emails from him since the November debacle in Ohio, and he didn't say a word about what had just happened.

This is the #1 issue facing Democrats and democracy. Dean is the #1 Dem leader. It's HIS responsibility to use his position and bullhorn to address it.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Careful, an agenda is surely underway, Dean is obviously ruffling
someones feathers that dont' wish him to be...

I cannot believe these consistant attacks on Dean and the DNC, I assume the attacks against the DLC have all been played out enough where the majority of those on this board now take them for nothing more than lite repubs..

Is this the reason for this current shadowing of everything being now Dean's fault? Take down one, now it's step two, the Dnc being the next in line?
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #64
68. Unless Dean "takes down" election fraud, we can kiss the Democratic
party and democracy good-bye.

Why isn't he raging about this? Why is it alright with him that Democratic candidates are repeatedly being defrauded out of their rightful wins? Ohio voters were determined to restore their voting rights -- but election fraud stole their chances for reform.

Why isn't Dean addressing this?! LOUDLY?!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Are you part of BBV, Bev's group?
Just wondering.
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. My, my -- what a surprise! Another idiotic question!
Bev Harris robbed CA (where I live) of its right to sue Diebold ever again. Now our repug SoS is trying to push through Diebold certification. I post that election fraud is the #1 issue facing the Democratic party -- and yet you ask if I'm with the person/group that has contributed HUGELY to this problem in my state.

:eyes:


You're clearly opposed to Dean addressing election fraud. The obvious conclusion is that you would prefer that repugs be able to steal elections and rob both the voters and Democratic candidates of their wins.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. Why are you doing this?
Dean has twice in public mentioned the GAO report. Last year DFA had a petition and a rally about voting with Rush Holt.

Dean did that TV segment with Bev, so anything he does now they can come back at him about it. I tried to explain this to you on another thread. You do seem to understand he is vulnerable on this.

I am sorry about your calling me a "yappy dog." I think we need to just back away, don't you?

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #77
87. The entire point of the OP is that Dean isn't loudly addressing the issue
of election fraud. "Twice" mentioning the GAO report doesn't cut it. The HAVA deadline of January 1st is looming, and states are installing more and more vote-stealing machines. Dean needs to be raging about the stolen elections -- because if he doesn't put a stop to it, we're going to see even more in 2006 and 2008 .....

Bev Harris doesn't own the topic of election fraud. She has only used it to enrich herself.
Dean can't afford to link this most-critical issue to that one individual. It has affected Democratic candidates and their constituents since even before 2000.

"I think we need to just back away, don't you?
My original post was a reply to the OP -- not to you.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #68
76. Unless Dean takes down election fraud? I didn't realize that Dean
was playing games these days while virtually ignoring the very real threat the people in this nation are facing which is total annalihation of the three system party that we once enjoyed...

Dean is doing his JOB which is to garner support and financial aid for the party he has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he is a valued member..

Do you think he is stupid? Do you honestly believe Madfloridian is stupid that she doesn't understand the threat of election fraud being an issue that needs attention?

Funny, but I am not as comfortable with your name as I am hers that proves she DOES care about this country and is doing what she can to ensure much need change occurs, how dare you attack her as if her message in defense of Dean is not tangible in this fight to rid ourselves of the chains that are slowly tightening around the very democracy this country once proffessed to cherish

Instead of fighting her voice, learn from it, she is well aware of the dangers that lurks with election fraud as is Howard Dean, he is but ONE man and is doing what he can, your obviously not paying attention..

This is s huge tent the Dems have found themselves in, with those to the far left and the greens in my opinion aiding in allowing this cabanal of criminals to remain intact and in power...

Your anger is misdirected towards Dean, again he is a valued member of the Dem party, if you cannot see such, I assume your whole objective is to ensure destruction from within...

Use your anger more wisely and use your voice by making it loud to those that can aid in addressing the issue of election fraud, tearing down Dean is just plain STUPID, I cann't think of a better word right now..
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #76
85. Dean's refuses to address the issue of election fraud -- the #1 issue
facing what's left of our democracy.

You obviously don't care about Democratic candidates or voters being defrauded out of their wins. So you also, clearly, want to see repugs overthrowing our democracy.

"Three system party"? What the hell is that?

"Do you honestly believe Madfloridian is stupid?" She keeps proving either that or her opposition to Dean addressing election fraud.

You're more comfortable with her name?! It "proves she DOES care about this country"? That's hilarious!!! Healthy Forests! Clear Skies Initiative!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

"... how dare you attack her as if her message in defense of Dean is not tangible in this fight to rid ourselves of the chains that are slowly tightening around the very democracy this country once proffessed(sic) to cherish"

What a pile of unmitigated crap. Election fraud is the #1 issue facing the Democrats and democracy -- and both she and you are arguing against Dean's responsibility to address it. Which party are you fighting for?!

Dean's silence on this topic is costing the Democrats elections and risking what's left of our democracy.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. Oh I see, and while one spends all his time on this one issue,
all those other meaningless little destructive forces at work like destroying civil rights, refusal to answer to allegations of real criminal like activites, drastically cut much need programs etc, etc, etc will continue to roll off the GOP's press machines with little or NO resistance.

Your right, Dean should just give up attempting to rebuild the bases of the former democratic party, what a waste of his time and energy, he should just simply ignore the continued abuses from so many of his contemporaries leveled towards the American people and focus on ONE issue..

Your right, what your dishing out is nothing more than inimitigated crap for he is doing what he can on as many fronts as humanly possible, he is but ONE man, I guess I never realized he was in fact delegated to be this party's savior to end the many injustices we have had to endure for far too long...

If you believe Dean is silent, it's obvious that your hearing is pretty selective...

I can't believe you, now it's all Deans fault that the Dems lost elections? Unbelievable...
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. What do you think is the source of ALL issues facing us now? --
Iraq war.
Crippled economy -- a bush reversal of $13 TRILLION!
The ravaged environment and resulting public health costs.
More and more jobs going overseas.
The massive spike in poverty and homelessness.
... etc. ad nauseam ...

These are all repug policies. How are these thugs getting into office? Largely through election fraud.

It is THE number one issue. Until Dean makes it the number one topic of focus, he's just painting deck chairs on the Titanic.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. I much appreciate your posts today.
I have felt pretty alone on this.

I just read at Kos that the next step in the 50 state strategy is building at the precinct level. I did not realize that.

"The DNC's next stage of the 50 State strategy, the precinct organizing piece, will be huge. They are committed to building up the local parties, not just providing the new organizing staff paid for by the DNC, but offering training to state party staff, to turn around and offer training to local parties too. Dean visiting all the states to help state parties fundraise is also much appreciated. Stay turned to find out how it will be rolled out thru the states and how you can sign up."

I am going to post that thread here and call attention to this part. We don't need the chairman being undermined by people who don't care about the party anyway.

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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. Your the only reason I logged on today and am risking the wrath
Edited on Sun Dec-04-05 10:55 PM by AuntPatsy
of my husband being online a bit more than he likes. I felt like I was watching a bad episode of the twilight zone in where one wakes up and finds themselves in another state of existance..

I waited and read a few different threads and I could not believe how you have had to fight for Dean pretty much all alone and on a so called Democratic message board no less...

Seriously, did I fall asleep and wake up in oz where the wizard has everyone in some sort of daze of stupity?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #73
78. Not just Dean, but the party itself being denied donations.
It is alarming to me that so few have cared about this.

Thanks.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. I am not even a registered Dem nor would I ever become one simply
because I will not declare myself limited to shanigans of any kind which all partys including the greens like to play at, but even I can see that all this pushing towards decrying the party of needing funding is just plain suicidal...

I cannot believe it, I honestly cannot that so many do not understand what is at stake here though they pretend to.

What gives?

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #56
71. "relentless" "pathetic" "yappy dog"
wow all that describes me huh
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #56
89. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
52. I will join your effort ; seems no one gives a shit in Missouri so my $$$
can give a boost to those who are pressing the most important issues--nothing the opposition to the Repubs does will mean anything until vote security/oversight exists. Thanks for the post.

NoFederales



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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #52
65. Are you a green party member?
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NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. No.
NoFederales
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NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #65
74. I don't see posters upset with Dean the DNC leader so much; frustration
and anger over the desire to do something nags many of us. I want my State and National representatives to be tigers, fire-breathing dragons even. That desire is not indicative of blind, stupid rage or careless misfiring. Action, demonstrative action is necessary--daily; and when actions are in planning stages, an agenda of publicized and prioritized goals is a necessity. We sure are not tipping off any secret ploys.

Much is expected of Dean because he stepped into a spotlighted job. He sought it and has many threads to weave together. No one can expect Dean to satisfy all of us, but each of us can expect pressures to be brought to bear on all fronts. If that means funding some important issues and candidates, arcane sounding or otherwise, so be it. This is what I told the DNC people when they last called me for contributions. I support a lot, but I expect a lot. There was no discussion offered, nor one needed at that point.

NoFederales
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. And as we all know, its so easy for Dean to be heard, I mean after
all the media is just giving him the best headliners these days and urging us all to pay attention, I am surprised your not aware that he is constantly being asked to appear on televised media circuits or that his message is being heraled by those loving liberal journalists as if his words were gospel?

I mean he has so much support that I am sure he is soooo overwhelmed by all those pushing for him to succeed where others have proven to be failures...

:banghead:
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NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #79
83. It is not my intention to lure, or be lured, into provocative spins,
therefore I bid all a good night for a more pleasant tomorrow.

NoFederales

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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. Surely such words make sense only to the one spinning them..
Cause they don't to me...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #74
81. See, you are also withholding support just as we are getting started....
changing things. If you think much is expected...then who is much expected of? You? Or does it mean you don't have to help build it?

Dean is supposed to work miracles while the Greens and PDA advocate withholding support, write nasty articles like "Is Dean Drunk", asking if he is neurologically impaired because he did tno stop the war single-handedly.

And now he is supposed to stop election problems single-handedly. Maybe Swanson will write another cutesy article calling him an addict or something.


You guys want the world, but you don't want to help. The next step is precinct building, will you help or just gripe over something that is not his fault.

This is unbelievable. I get called a yappy dog, and it is being advocated to withhold support from the party....

And I am the bad guy. Go figure.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #81
93. Will you support the Democratic Party when they are controlled by
big corporations?? It is the Democratic principles that we need to support not the party leadership when they sell out.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #93
95. This is such a sad thread. You don't even know Dean's goal...
Why do you think he is asking us to build the party on small donations? So he can wean it off corporate money.

How sad for all of you to do this when he is really working to build the party with smaller donors.

I give up on this thread. I think the letter is written by a Green party member who is saying withhold support from the Democrats...and all of you are falling for it.

We have someone trying to get the party back on track, and you guys are trying to pull the rug out.

Shame on all of you. Shame on the ones who are calling it "dean worship" because you do not have a clue that the Greens and others are using you!!!
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. I support Dean. I am only saying that we shouldn't blindly support
all Democrats. Only those that support Democratic principles.
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faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
59. KICK
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. K&R- come on HJoward- kick some damn ass--- eom
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. Perhaps if Dean had more loyal supporters he could kick anyone's ass..
Edited on Sun Dec-04-05 10:33 PM by AuntPatsy
lately it seems he is being railroaded once again..

:eyes:
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
75. awesome letter
I spoke about election fraud with Dean in the Albany, NY airport 2 or 3 years ago as we walked through the airport (we were on the same plane). That is, I talked. He listened. I guess he's still listening. Time to start TALKING, Dr. Dean!

I will fax it with my name tomorrow.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
92. I won't support any Democrat that isn't willing to FIGHT for
Democracy.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
97. kick for democracy
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
98. None Dare Call it Stolen.
None Dare Call it Stolen.

by Mark Crispin Miller

Whichever candidate you voted for (or think you voted for), or even if you did not vote (or could not vote), you must admit that last year’s presidential race was—if nothing else—pretty interesting. True, the press has dropped the subject, and the Democrats, with very few exceptions, have “moved on.” Yet this contest may have been the most unusual in U.S. history; it was certainly among those with the strangest outcomes. You may remember being surprised yourself. The infamously factious Democrats were fiercely unified—Ralph Nader garnered only about 0.38 percent of the national vote—while the Republicans were split, with a vocal anti-Bush front that included anti-Clinton warrior Bob Barr of Georgia; Ike’s son John Eisenhower; Ronald Reagan’s chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, William J. Crowe Jr.; former Air Force Chief of Staff and onetime “Veteran for Bush” General Merrill “Tony” McPeak; founding neocon Francis Fukuyama; Doug Bandow of the Cato Institute, and various large alliances of military officers, diplomats, and business professors. The American Conservative, co-founded by Pat Buchanan, endorsed five candidates for president, including both Bush and Kerry, while the Financial Times and The Economist came out for Kerry alone. At least fifty-nine daily newspapers that backed Bush in the previous election endorsed Kerry (or no one) in this election. The national turnout in 2004 was the highest since 1968, when another unpopular war had swept the ruling party from the White House. Yet this ever-less-beloved president, this president who had united liberals and conservatives and nearly all the world against himself—this president somehow bested his opponent by 3,000,176 votes.

How did he do it? To that most important question the commentariat, briskly prompted by Republicans, supplied an answer. Americans of faith—a silent majority heretofore unmoved by any other politician—had poured forth by the millions to vote “Yes!” for Jesus’ buddy in the White House. Bush’s 51 percent, according to this thesis, were roused primarily by “family values.” Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, called gay marriage “the hood ornament on the family values wagon that carried the president to a second term.” The pundits eagerly pronounced their amens—“Moral values,” Tucker Carlson said on CNN, “drove President Bush and other Republican candidates to victory this week”—although it is not clear why. The primary evidence of our Great Awakening was a post-election poll by the Pew Research Center in which 27 percent of the respondents, when asked which issue “mattered most” to them in the election, selected something called “moral values.” This slight plurality of impulse becomes still less impressive when we note that, as the pollsters went to great pains to make clear, “the relative importance of moral values depends greatly on how the question is framed.” In fact, when voters were asked to “name in their own words the most important factor in their vote,” only 14 percent managed to come up with “moral values.” Strangely, this detail went little mentioned in the post-electoral commentary.

The press has had little to say about most of the strange details of the election—except, that is, to ridicule all efforts to discuss them. This animus appeared soon after November 2, in a spate of caustic articles dismissing any critical discussion of the outcome as crazed speculation: “Election paranoia surfaces: Conspiracy theorists call results rigged,” chuckled the Baltimore Sun on November 5. “Internet Buzz on Vote Fraud Is Dismissed,” proclaimed the Boston Globe on November 10. “Latest Conspiracy Theory—Kerry Won—Hits the Ether,” the Washington Post chortled on November 11. The New York Times weighed in with “Vote Fraud Theories, Spread by Blogs, Are Quickly Buried”—making mock not only of the “post-election theorizing” but of cyberspace itself, the fons et origo of all such loony tunes, according to the Times.

Such was the news that most Americans received. Although the tone was scientific, “realistic,” skeptical, and “middle-of-the-road,” the explanations offered by the press were weak and immaterial. It was as if they were reporting from inside a forest fire without acknowledging the fire, except to keep insisting that there was no fire. Since Kerry has conceded, they argued, and since “no smoking gun” had come to light, there was no story to report. This is an oddly passive argument. Even so, the evidence that something went extremely wrong last fall is copious, and not hard to find. Much of it was noted at the time, albeit by local papers and haphazardly. Concerning the decisive contest in Ohio, the evidence is lucidly compiled in a single congressional report, which, for the last half-year, has been available to anyone inclined to read it. It is a veritable arsenal of “smoking guns”—and yet its findings may be less extraordinary than the fact that no one in this country seems to care about them.

Continued at link.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
101. I want my candidate in 2008 to stand up to the Swift Boaters,
the Karl Rove's, the hate mongers like Hannity, and to demand a fair vote and scream bloody hell if the election is stolen. They need to disregard their political advisor's that say to keep a low profile. Democracy is under attack while we are "keeping a low profile".
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
103. Bob Fitrakis doesn't seem to like Democrats:
Starting January 1, 2006, Fraudbuster Bob Fitrakis and his Green Party colleagues Anita Rios and Tim Kettler will be visiting every corner of the state to expose the culture of corruption that the G.O.P. and their Democratic Party counterparts have created here in Ohio.

http://www.bobforohio.com

Not only that, it appears that he has a mullet.

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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #103
108. He doesn;t like CORRUPTION, in any party or candidate. Has nothing
to do with not liking Dems.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-05 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #108
109. Then why doesn't he run as a Democrat and reform the party?
:shrug:
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Aaaargh Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
104. Fitrakis: "DEMOCRATS SHOULD VOTE FOR TED STRICKLAND"
Bob Fitrakis was quoted as saying this in 'Columbus Alive,' a local alternative newspaper, last week. He said that he did not want the votes of Democrats, but wished to appeal to "the 50% of people who don't vote." He also said that Strickland's environmental stances were better than those of Columbus Mayor Mike Coleman, who recently pulled out of the race.

Of course, the part about non-voters is disingenuous -- the reality is that Fitrakis will take left-Democrat votes away from Strickland (or whoever the Dem nominee turns out to be).

Ohio Democrats, look at the Republican alternatives and DO NOT vote for Fitrakis -- he can't win, and the closer the election is, the more likely it IS to be stolen.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
106. Resolution in Support of Election Reform (Adopted by DNC)
The following resolution was adopted by the DNC Resolutions Committee at its meeting
on December 1, 2005, in conjunction with the meetings of the Democratic National Committee,
December 1-3, 2005.

Submitted by: Donna L. Brazile, At Large/District of Columbia
Hartina Flournoy, At-Large/District of Columbia
Ben Johnson, At Large/District of Columbia
Inola Henry, california
Leon Lynch, At Large/Pennsylvania
Betty McElderry, Oklahoma
Doug Palmer, National Conference of Mayors/New Jersey
Gregory Pecoraro, Maryland

Resolution in Support of Election Reform

WHEREAS, in June, 2005, the Democratic National Committee completed its exhaustive
review of the presidential campaign in Ohio; and

WHEREAS, the resulting report, “Democracy at Risk: The 2004 Election in Ohio” documents
that more than one quarter of Ohio voters reported problems with their voting experience, and
African Americans were more than two times as likely as white voters to claim they encountered
problems with their voting experience; and

WHEREAS, this report confirms evidence of widespread voter confusion; voter suppression;
negligence and incompetence on the part of election officials; long lines at the polls; improper
requests for voter identification, particularly among young voters and African American voters;
the failure to properly process absentee ballots and the improper use of provisional ballots in
Ohio on Election Day 2004; and

WHEREAS, evaluations of the administrative processes and technology used by election
officials in Ohio revealed that inadequate and insecure voting systems were pervasive
throughout Ohio—unreliable punch card systems and insecure, unverifiable direct record
electronic (DRE) machines; and

WHEREAS, 71 percent of white voters in Ohio were very confident their vote was counted but
only 19 percent of African American voters were confident their votes were counted; and

WHEREAS, the right to vote and to have that vote accurately counted is the bedrock on which
our democracy stands and nothing is more fundamental to our freedom than our confidence in
the integrity of our democratic institutions; and

WHEREAS, “Democracy at Risk: The 2004 Election in Ohio” makes recommendations for
future action by parties, legislators and local election officials to improve future elections;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Democratic National Committee (DNC) will
continue to work with Members of Congress, lawmakers in all 50 United States, the District of
Columbia, and all U.S. Territories, local election officials, and community leaders to update and
reform our election laws to ensure that voter confidence in our election system is restored and
maintained;

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC “Democracy at Risk: The 2004 Election in
Ohio” recommends several actions; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends states, the District of Columbia
and all U. S. Territories codify into law all required election practices, including requirements for
the adequate training of official poll workers; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommend lawmakers adopt uniform and clear
published standards for the distribution of voting equipment and the assignment of official poll
workers among precincts, to ensure adequate and nondiscriminatory access, and that these
procedures be based on set ratios of numbers of machines and poll workers per number of voters
expected to turn out, and should be made available for pub lic comment before being adopted;
and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers adopt legislation to
make clear and uniform the rules on voter registration; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers and local election
officials adopt clear and uniform rules on the use of, and the counting of, provisional ballots, and
distribute them for public comment well in advance of each Election Day, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends touch screen (DRE) machines not
be used until a reliable voter verifiable audit feature can be uniformly incorporated into these
systems and that in the event of a recount, the paper or other auditable record should be
considered the official record; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends remaining punch card systems
should be discontinued; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers make it easier for
college students to vote in the jurisdiction in which their school is located; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers develop procedures to
ensure that voting is facilitated, without compromising security or privacy, for all eligible voters
living overseas; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers make voter suppression
a criminal offense in all states, the District of Columbia and all U.S. Territories; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the DNC recommends lawmakers and election officials
should improve the training of poll workers.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. Silly person, they don't want to see this.
In the Elections Reform forum they just put it down.

Do not try to confuse the issue. :sarcasm:

I posted it, and had to run for shelter.
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