is anyone sick of Corp. media saying people tired of BOTH parties?

it is utter tripe. I believe what the people out there in America are sick of from Dems is a perceived lack of action to stop the onslaught of greed, corruption, and self serving legislation by GOP. Most people aren't aware of how difficult it is for the group out of power to get media attention let alone get amendments to bills passed or in this current climate even get advance copies of bills or schedule capitol building meeting rooms.

It's been scorched earth policy by the GOP leadership, and it shows.

Now you got people like David Broder of Washington Post and David Brooks of NYTimes forming a flawed argument that "it's all of them" when it's really just over half of them that are the problem.

The GOP and Bush wins either way. Either the people don't care and let them run roughshod over America with their draconian policies, or America is cynical and distrustful of government and wants nothing more to do with it.

HOW ABOUT THE TRUTH!!!????

WE FUCKING WANT SOME PEOPLE IN POWER WHO SERVE OUR INTERESTS. THAT MEANS KICKING THE SHIT OUT OF REPUBLICANS IN 2006 and showing them how REAL leaders and REAL lawmakers get things done.

Fucking MEDIA WHORES, I TELL YA!!

The Dems used to be the party of the working class, of middle America, of the poor and oppressed - they aren't anymore, or at least haven't been lately. They certainly weren't (with a few exceptions) when Clinton was President and they had both houses of congress.

As we know the Democrats en masse all voted to cut $700 million of foodstamps, they also en masse voted NO on a raise in the minimum wage, they also en masse were out there whoring for Junior on getting rid of Social Security and Medicare.

And Jaysus...it's ALL like the Clenis' fault eh? Yeah, Clinton did nothing for the poor and middle class did he...I mean we all remember his trillion dollar tax cuts for the top 1% don't we, we all remember how he never created 22 million new jobs, gave people childcare facilities, gave people college credits...

I'm getting tired of the bashing of Democrats, and there's many here that are tired of it also.

On Edit: Spelling error.

are tired of the "thought police" telling other DUers what is acceptable to think and say about their Democratic representation in an insular environment.

And so it goes, around and 'round.

How about the discussion of ideas?

Progressives bash Democrats....why? Ask yourself.

If your answer is: they just hate Democrats, they are really Republican, they don't care about America..just complaining about stuff, or "the left always screws it up with their "free mumia" crap", then you are in deep denial and refuse to listen to your political allies (and yes, they ARE allies).

The answer, from what I surmise, is that progressives are deeply disappointed in leaders that do not vote for our principles, but still demand our votes for them personally. There is no give and take here, just take, and people are dying. Literally dying. We cannot compromise anymore from the left...we have no voice in our own party and have to consistently hear Machiavellan explanations for why we were betrayed THIS time. It gets old.

It is all about ISSUES, not party or personality. The minute that dyed-in-the-wool Dems see that and stop demanding loyalty from a group that is given no voice, the sooner this impasse can be breached. An alliance can be forged, but it must start with respect and an honest approach to the issues.

But my silly little post won't change a thing, so continue to be sarcastic and snarky, if you like.

sign saying "NO YOU WILL NOT FUCK WITH Social Security". I agree they could be better at fighting this stuff....but they can't filibuster every single damn bill. Some stuff has to get done to pay the bills, etc.

That means they have to give some ground against clear majorities and a republican WH.

What is so hard for you to figure out about that?

Are you referring to the 2 years from January 2003 to January 2005? That was the only period when Clinton had both houses. He passed the tax increase on top incomes without a single GOP vote and it was widely seen as a main reason he could later get the budget balanced without cutting vital programs for the poor.

TRY again.

:sarcasm:

we should write a book called "Alzheimers America--How Truth and History slipped down the Memory Hole".

It's just so easy to forget eight full years of peace, prosperity, having a President who was intelligent and articulate and loved the WORLD over.

I think somebody should write a book, with that title you gave...let's have a TV series too, to shake the sawdust out of peoples' heads.

The view might be a bit different north of the border, but come south, you'll see....

THe Democrats are only now getting their spine back and quite frankly, they've betrayed our interests for the almighty dollar more than a few times on their own as well. Yes, I'm voting Democratic in the next two elections, but I want to see a real party developes that isn't Liberal-Progressive in Name Only, Not Democratic in Name Only; but, a genuine third party to help erbalance our system once we have broken away from these hard stepping right wing thugs who walk all over everyone who doesn't own a multi-billion dollar corporation.

In the past the Democrats had the ball to do some things that would have kept us from falling into this trap and chose to do nothing, this time when they get the ball back they had better do for this country what it needs or quite frankly, I'll never vote for either party again out of pure disgust past for individual candidates that prepresent the best interest of the American People in my point of view.

The Democrats and the Republicans both have candidates that I would consider voting for... true there are very very few Republicans that are out of the local area that I can think of that have earned a vote in my opinion. If no other reason I'd like to see a third party develope because the Democrats keep moving right to look more reasonable against the hard religious right, even now. It is as if we were living in Germany and it were a decision between the Neo-NAzi and the Moderate-Right party. A true third party that wasn't suckerpunched on both sides of the isle as both Republicans and Democrats have done multiple times over the past 15 years _might_ assist in restoring true balance to this ailing democratic republic that has a bloody nose after years of forgetting what made it great and serving the interests of corporations while ignoring the needs of the people who make up the country.

Money is a problem for both parties.

Political parties all over the world survive and keep functional by being funded by big money.

Where else are we supposed to go to get this sort of funding? We either get funded or we die.

my post was about whoring mainstream media types repainting ridiculously low approval ratings of Bush and GOP and high disatisfaction with direction of country as a "BOTH PARTY" thing.

It's not.

Dems just need to raise their profile a bit and URGE the voters to give some balance back to the governing process.

They need to highlight the abuses of concentrated power and corruption along with it.

Most Americans believe in balance and in fair play. They may well see a DEM congress as able to put some brakes on the horrendous offerings of the Bush Corporation.

I keep hearing MSM referring to massive corruption scandal that could impact many members of Congress when talking about the Abramoff affair. No, that would be massive corruption that could impact many Republican members of Congress.
:nopity:

Let's tell it like it is. :think:

They pop up and they'll say "but but but so and so Democrat is involved too", they don't seem to be able to handle that it's a 98% Repuke scandal, it's blowing their poor minds.

It takes even handedness to a bizarre plane, really, when one shady Democrat equals twenty filthy Republicans. But oh, ya gotta give equal time, even if the level of sin is not equal!

Some, I noticed, take pride in letting us know that they are not Democrats, or they are only Democrats if the particular candidate kowtows to their every issue point. And if not, well, they will stomp off in high dudgeon!! So THERE!

Quite frankly, my take is for these types, become part of the solution, or just move on if you are really all that unhappy with our Big Tent party.

The "I will take my vote and go home" crowd should really just go on and do that, IMO. That way, we aren't counting on them when the going gets tough, and the REALLY TOUGH need to get going!

Said it all right there. Instead of bashing away at Democrats...become part of the solution, or just move on somewhere else.

We're in a situation, where we have a scandal thats 98% Repuke, why can't people REJOICE at this...we have the Cunningham scandal that involves up to 60 Repuke Congresspeople, why can't people REJOICE at this.

But no, they keep popping up insisting that we listen to them saying that A Democrat was involved or TWO Democrats were involved. They're getting quite consistent too pushing their Democrats are to blame too.

We need to all be on the same hymn sheet, for next year, for 2008, we need all hands on deck. We need to be loyal and try our best to help our party and our politicians. We're supposed to all want the same goal, to remove the Repukes from office.

We have...distractors who are trying to drive a wedge into our party...we must resist them and move forward as one UNITED unit.

On Edit: Changed word.

they are rotting our very nation. just like last time they were in during Reagan. Just like the last time before that with Nixon/Ford.

The only decent Republican president in the past 50 years was Eisenhower.

I agree for every Democrat in Corporate pockets there are more Republicans. It may not be just a party thing, but there is the age old objection to legislative bodies.

Money is the current GOP poison, it could easily become the Democrat poison.

Most people are sick of both parties.

Most dems voted us into IraqNam (and please nobody start that "they only voted to give him leverage, not to go to war....NOBODY believes that shit and least of all me)

to find out what is up.

OH YEAH! BECAUSE THEY FUCKING CAN'T!!!

we've been sitting here being told as AMericans to "suck it" while the likes of McCain and Lieberman are passed off as the best GOP has to offer.

There are PLENTY in DEM leadership who would go after GOP insiderism and K street corruption and Karl Rove and the whole lot of them if we get them elected with a landslide of 70 to 30 for every contested seat.

Lessee....they are either dumbasses or they did it for political expediency...what a choice.

do you think Kennedy didn't politicize things? you think FDR didn't politicize things? WTF planet are you living on?

There's a lesser sin of caving to the prevailing opinion that Afghanistan wasn't enough of a payback for 9/11. Admit it. YOu saw others around you just foaming at the mouth to see Bush and friends go after some other hard targets.

I saw it. A little more than a year removed from 9/11 and the Dems just didn't have it in them to be completely painted as yellow bellied and soft on terror.

Think about this: many voted that resolution in a climate when triple amputee Vietnam war vet was painted as some kind of traitor because he had reasons for not supporting Homeland Security act. What were those reasons? AMong other things....not letting BUsh get away with taking away union protections of homeland security employees.

THAT is what we've had to deal with. Is it morally courageous that more didnt' stand up to and question Bush? No...but then again...the same fucking sluts like Broder and Brooks and every other mainstream shill were pushing the war like it was some kind of carnival they couldn't wait to get into.

Again, I blame the fucking corporate consolidation of the media and not holding Bush accountable a lot more than I blame the minority DEMS.

Tell me this: would their vote in the other direction have made a difference?

It's the corrupt vs the incompetent.

I am not directing this at you personally, this is a broad, general observation.

People who do not understand political strategy need to read a few history books and get with the program. It helps when examining the big picture. Start with CARO's MASTER OF THE SENATE...y'all need to learn how things REALLY go down.

Here is how votes work in Congress. Each side takes their count. They get the Yeas and Nays. Then they tote them all up. They know, BEFORE THE VOTE IS CALLED, how the measure will go, unless the vote is VERY close and you have a few fence sitting prima donnas that want to be wooed with promises of future highway bills or public works projects in exchange for their vote.

If you know damn right well that your side is NOT GOING TO WIN ANYWAY--which was plainly the case with the IWR--you start looking at your individual team players, and decide which ones should switch their votes so that they can ENJOY POLITICAL COVER and perhaps a bit of near term ADVANTAGE. The purpose may be to be able to bullshit some GOP asshole, from a Majority Leader to the Pretzeldunce, so that you can get another initiative that is IMPORTANT to your state or the party on the floor at a later time. It could also be that YOUR sense is not the sense of your constituency, and you need them on your side if you want to keep warming the seat. It is all quid pro quo. A lot like bicycle racing, where the team blocks other guys so your lead guy can go ahead.

The ones with nothing to lose, no deals to make, no cards yet to be placed on the table, no constituents breathing down their neck and DEMANDING a vote one way or the other, they are the ones who vote their conscience. Everything else is like the Baghdad Bazaar on Saturday morning--NEGOTIABLE.

And this is not NEWS, it is as old as TIME. It ain't a Fairy Tale up on the Hill. Some of the ideologue dreamers need to understand this. It ain't gonna change just because you might wish it so.

but you did afine job of it.

Call me naive all you want to.

Those who voted against the war have nothing to try to hide or spin.

Those who voted for it (and yes, it WAS a vote to go to war) are spending their lives trying to spin it. They don't know whether to spit, throw up or drop dead, and are doing all three at the same time trying to back away from this clusterfuck.

Statesmanship has a place and it can be rewarded.

Over 60% of the public now seesm IraqNam for what it is. Republicans are trying to distance themselves from it and if the opposition party had acted like an opposition party, we wouldn't be in the position of trying to 'out-hawk' the hawks to try to perpetuate the new Viet Nam to give cover to the idiots who voted for it.

It is way too easy for some of these guys to sit on the soft asses, farting through silk, and make decisions that affect, and ruin, the lives of individuals. We still are not the 'shining city on a hill' that we like to think we are. We live with ourselves by saying we are better than most.

It's a brutal game, too. America has "interests" and America has "assets." Our interests involve ensuring our advantage and preeminence in the world, and our assets are those kids dying over in the sandbox.

I am not weighing in on the moral aspect when I point out these unfortunate realities, I agree with you in principle. All I am trying to do is articulate how things actually work, not how we might like them to work. If we, as a party, fail to see things as they are, and shoot for the moon, we aren't gonna make it. We need to move the agenda to a more idealistic plane by pulling, pushing and shoving, inch by inch. It is a slow process, it demands compromise, and I do understand the frustration of those who want a serious sea change now, but realistically, it ain't gonna happen that way. Americans as a nation want it ALL. They want peace, cheap oil, lotsa jobs, no crime, great schools, health care, good roads and bridges, everything. But when it comes down to the voting booth, their self-interests trump the broader interests of the society at large, and they vote for the candidate that benefits THEMSELVES, more often than not. Altruism is great, up to a point, but ya can't run and win on it. I guess we are just not all that evolved...

If those polls are accurate, it's, to a large degree, because the press has misrepresented, ridiculed, and/or ignored Dems. I don't know how we combat this, except, as discussed here many times, our office-holders could be bolder about speaking loud and clear about what they know is right, and then acting on it.

Question: Which would you prefer:

A. George Bush
B. A sharp, shit-tipped, stick in your eye.

THE RESULTS ARE IN!!!! By an OVERWHELMING majority, the nation prefers BUSH!!!!!

They're tired of the Republicans because they've seen what the Republicans do when given power. They're tired of the Democrats because the Democrats don't seem to be presenting a better alternative.

In other words, the Republican Party is the party that fucks up and the Democratic Party is the party that tells us how much the Republican Party is fucking up.

How much of that is a product of media-driven perception is anybody's guess. But the fact is this: Until the Democrats are ready to present a better alternative to the Republican failures, they will not reap benefits.

Rope-a-dope is a fine strategy. But how many fights would Ali have won if he'd never delivered the final punch that knocked his opponent out?

What the Democrats need is that final punch.

I feel these prosecutions and other scandals, etc are sort of on slow burn so there's something to bubble over and cause the fire to crackle by next summer and early fall.

one can hope. because I will feel well and truly fucked if they get to hold steady and/or increase GOP in one or both houses.

in a party noted for its lack of cohesion, then we might have good chances in '06. But it can't consist solely of saying, "These guys are corrupt."

Democrats should certainly run against Republican corruption. It's too potent an issue to ignore. But that can't be it. The American people are leaning toward us on a number of issues, including the Iraq war.

Presenting a united Democratic platform and a united Democratic agenda might be what it takes to push us over the top.

they can point to ....unfortunately....6 years of failed policy under Bushevik and the GOP controlled congress.

they can point to a new set of policy points. THEY BETTER BE WORKING ON POLICY POINTS RIGHT NOW...

and they can come out with energy and a "VISION" like the GOP tried to do with Contract for America...but this one will actually be aimed at improving our lives--not peeing on us and telling us it's raining.

We want that hit to land SO DAMN HARD that the enemy cannot get up off the canvas before the 06 elections. It's all in the timing, and it is tricky. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee...you gotta tire your opponent out to make that last hit stick.

Right now, the idiots are punching themselves in the face--let the media cover that, and don't take away from the air time expended on the Fitz investigation, the DeLay imbroglio, the Cunningham mess, and so on...let that water RUN.

When the news cycle slows, jump out in front and jab away.

Which is why we're on the verge of Dem Victory 2006. Sooo...

Never Give Up.

FULL OF SH!T. Just unbelievable how things have gone. Just slow sinking into the quicksand. Little by little.

Republican-lite SUCKS!

I know and you know that this pox on both parties is a ploy to let the Republicans off the hook. But see how easily supposedly enlightened people are misled? This is what happened last year. This is how it always happens. They just keep throwing out bullshit until they get something that starts to stick, then steamroll from there. And time after time, WE are our own worst enemy.

our own version of media releases and citizen feedback to the media. Why, even calling them on it here can get a few more peope to break the "memes" and realize what's ACTUALLY going on.

All I need to do is step out of my house in this aging working class neighborhood. Most of my neighbors think that both parties are corrupt and that there isn't a single politician out there that speaks to their concerns.

Most of them don't even bother to vote anymore, they think that the entire system is corrupt.

of LIKELY VOTERS? What do likely voters say regarding their approval of Dem or Republican? That could be more informative.

Frankly, that is a disconnect with a LOT of polls.

WHO CARES what someone thinks this way or that if they don't even vote?

Perhaps the 2-parties are only relevant to people that have 401Ks or that can afford to purchase a new vehicle.

Perhaps the 2-parties do not speak for the working poor, those that have to hold more than one job to make ends meet, and that have to pray for good health for their employer(s) provide not health coverage.

Perhaps it is because the 2-parties are not representative of working class Americans, but only represent the investor class and the ruling elites.

% voter turnout since 1992. so there was some positive direction in that trend.

people just get too busy to focus on politics whether it's a 1 income $500,000 family or a 2 income $50,000 family.

don't make this classist. it is about the nefarious powers that be who WANT to keep the power of the people on the sidelines. it is ridiculous to say what you just said.

look at how the DEMS as a BLOC are standing firm against cutting food stamps, child care, and other aid for the poor while the GOP are cutting it to offset proposed extension of tax cuts.

THAT, my friend, is the difference. If fat, lazy AMericans in midwest are just too blind to see it...then it's partly their own fault, partly the media's fault (WHICH IS original point of post), and partly the DEM's fault.

I agree the DEMS should be more vocal and more cohesive and stronger. They are certainly better than they were in 2002 and 2004. We'll see if it's enough.

but if its Republicans, then suddenly its "I'm just tired of politics, both parties are to blame"

Its bullshit.

Who's in power now?? Who has all the control? Who has both houses and the White House? Who has the Supreme Court almost completely sewn up?

How the hell are both parties "equally to blame"???

the fact that the corruption is fully coming to light.

Frankly, they don't care if a member or 2 are never seen again like Delay or Cunningham. The corporatists paying for them to be in power just want that party to stay in power.

So we've got to kick them out.