I'VE HAD IT!!! So called Democratic leaders can go to HELL

If they don't start admitting that the Bush Administration is dishonest and they lied us into an illegal war...THEREFORE, we stand against THEM, and demand they stop!!!

Anyone of them mother fuckers, Hillary Clinton, Ford, Biden or whoever is a lying BASTARD if their position is this half ass some in some out, be out when this or that happens, or when so and so does such and such.

OUR GOD DAMN country, lead by EVIL BushCo. is committing murder in my name every single day, I resent that.

In this Order:

1) Dean speaks for me!!!
2) Murtha speaks for me!!!
3) Pelosi speaks for me!!!

All others are a bunch of PUNKS!!!

it won't matter much what they say or do, since they'll be in the minority in perpetuity . . .

More Democrats don't speak up in support of Dean, Murtha, and Pelosi because they don't want to empower Others. Their own Plans are more important to them than We are.

Am I the only one, there are Democrats who seem Paternalistic and Condescending to the People. Uncomfortable with power sharing, they do not really engage, except in Patronizing, but CLIQUE-ish when it comes to the day to day decisions of the "powerful". There seems to be an assumption that some "higher" class Should lead. And I don't think they've admitted Dean to their little club yet. Sad, isn't it?

Dean is one of the best we've got!

LACK OF LEADERSHIP...

The people don't mind being lead by someone who has true conviction. If you are in politics and you would like to lead the country, then please step up to the plate and LEAD.

and convictions.

They don't like or trust wimps, the types who check to see the way the wind's blowing before they state a position (or devise a way out of stating a position).

Would you care to explain?

According to your incoherent tantrum...ALL Democratic politicians except Dean, Murtha and Pelosi are punks.

So, explain how Barbara Boxer is a PUNK? Go on...explain it.

Every Democrat except Dean, Murtha and Pelosi are a bunch of punks...this is what you said!

a clear position, then I named the 3 I admire the most compared ot the rest, I know there are many more who deserve credit...I did not mean to make a list naming people, I did not mean to make a list excluding people.

but...but...what about Boxer? What about Conyers, for goodness sake? What about Barbara Jackson-Lee? The whole Congressional Black Caucus for that matter?

my Congressman holds regular forums in his district ... they're free ... they're not $300 a plate fundraisers ... he speaks to average folks and then engages in a very long Q&A ... that's the way it's supposed to work ...

my Senators, both Democrats, are much less visible ... that's just not good government and it's not good politics either ...

your comments about our elitest "leaders" being "paternalistic and condescending to the People" are devastatingly true ... the Democratic Party is badly in need of reform ... we have got to change our internal party processes to put our representatives back in touch with their constituents ...

and after we "re-democratize" the Democratic Party, we need to call for a second American revolution, not a violent revolution, to make radical changes in the way our government conducts itself ... the government envisioned by our Founding Fathers won't be found in Washington anytime soon ...

and phone call notes and letters and stuff people say at town meetings and any other connection in which the people Speak their thoughts on teh issues - What happens to all of that INPUT? It should be regarded as a Resource, but mostly isn't.

I know they send their form letters, but what do you want to bet that absolutely NOTHING else happens in terms of using that resource, i.e. the people's own words, to extract some Priorities for various subsequent decisions, or just as a source of who the electee is representing, so they can represent us better.

are almost always accompanied with a request for funds ... go figure ...

a recent CBS poll said that 73% of Democrats wanted the war over ASAP even it meant leaving behind an unstable Iraq ... before the IWR, Kerry's office said his calls were running 20-1 against the resolution that he voted for ...

it's not that our elected leaders should have to always vote according to the majority; there should be some room for independent thought and for the possibility that they have access to covert information ...

but there is NO EXCUSE for their distance from their constituents ... if they're going to vote against our wishes, it seems to me that should meet with us and explain, and even debate, their reasoning ... maybe more of us would come to agree with them; maybe more of us would come to disagree with them; or maybe we would at least believe we've been heard and that our views have been carefully weighed ... right now, i see a very disturbing arrogance among many of our elected "leaders" ... and that applies to the left, right and center of the political spectrum ...

somebody should give a damn about our democracy ... i'm afraid a system that supports unassailable incumbency has produced a crop of arrogant aristocrats ...

and who have consistently stood up against the depradations of the Bush administration.

Special kudos to the Progressive Caucus and the Black Caucus!

What he had to say, and he voted against the war.

I could get behind him easily.

Go on explain it. EVERY Democratic politician except Dean, Murtha and Pelosi is a punk according to you.

So, explain how Edward Kennedy is a punk? Go on, explain it.

I wouldn't use the term "punk," but he lost my respect in March of 2001.

<snip>

The crafting and enactment of the No Child Left Behind Act (NCLB) required the commitment and cooperation of the White House and the Congress. Key leaders had to enter into a partnership with the President urging their colleagues to support the sweeping changes that NCLB represented to schools and communities. These policy-makers shared a belief that closing the achievement gap between white and minority students required bold action and the strict enforcement of new statutory rules that had real consequences. With President Bush in the lead, a group of Senate and House education leaders, known as “the big four,” were crucial to getting the job done.

While the rhetoric sounds good, anyone who has looked carefully at the legislation, or worked under it, knows better. I can't think of a law that has had more negative consequences for public education during my decades as an educator.

<snip>

Though a critical ally for President Bush in the enactment of NCLB, Kennedy has not hesitated to criticize the Administration for underfunding the law. He has been vocal in his resistance to amending the statute prior to 2007 but has also urged Secretary of Education Margaret Spellings to demonstrate flexibility in her dealings with the states.

http://www.wpllc.net/publications/NCLBInsights.htm

Sorry. Fully funding a bad law doesn't make it better. Refusing to amend the gross faults in this law isn't excused by a plea for "flexibility." Personally, I don't want the law "amended." I want major portions of it repealed.

I'm not alone in my criticisms:

<snip>

No Child Left Behind: A Foolish Race Into the Past

By David Marshak

According to Mr. Marshak, the No Child Left Behind Act, rather than preparing all students for the future, reverts to the outmoded practices of the Industrial Age -- a narrow curriculum and the sorting of students through standardized testing.

GEORGE W. BUSH deserves significant credit for one policy achievement in education. No Child Left Behind, his stated goal, has become the title of the education bill he signed into law in January 2002. President Bush is the first American President who has affirmed so clearly that every single child deserves a high-quality education -- and that no child should be victimized by malignant or benign neglect.

The President has articulated a new goal for American public schools. But despite all the hype emanating from Washington, nothing else in schools has really changed, except for a lot more testing to come, a list of prospective penalties, and a sparse handful of dollars per student. And the intensification of standardized testing -- the key tool that President Bush and his Democratic allies (first and foremost Sen. Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts, who really should know better) will employ to achieve their goal -- comes not from the future but from the past.

<snip>

You don't have to agree with every item on either of these lists to understand that both would lead us toward more effective schools for the future -- and not only in terms of the workplace and the economy, but also in preparing responsible, competent citizens. Both Workplace Basics and What Work Requires of Schools, now more than a decade old, offer a similar kind of agenda for schools. In contrast, the Bush/Kennedy NCLB races foolishly into the past of industrial social forms. It will surely be a disaster, though we can hope that it will so discredit the industrial paradigm of schooling that we can finally let it go -- and begin to move ahead. Unfortunately, a lot of children and teens and teachers and parents will get hurt in the process.

https://www.pdkintl.org/kappan/k0311ma2.htm

Go on explain it? According to you EVERY Democratic politician except Dean, Murtha and Pelosi are punks.

So explain how Richard Durbin is a punk? Go on, explain it.

Their statement is COMPLETELY absurd and they CAN'T back such a statement up.

They can't tell people why Boxer, Kennedy and Durbin for example are punks.

mean to make a list, but all three you mention are ok too.

And actually suggested that ALL Democrats bar the three you mentioned were a bunch of punks.

And you know, blanket statements such as this, only serve to give the Repukes more fodder with which to feed their mediawhores who then go on air and bash our people upside the head...and when someone tries to say "Hold on a minute..." some fuckhead like Wolf Blitzer says "Well, so and so said THIS about the Democrats..."

And then that just doesn't help our side. Jaysus, they've got enough on their plates as it is...can you imagine how infuriating and frustrating it must be to our people being stuck in the Senate with just 44 Senators and having to put up with Frist and Hatch and Santorums bullshit EVERY day...and know that you only have 44 Senators and that you can't do anything about it?

I think our 44 Senators each deserve a damn medal, I really do...I couldn't put up with the bullshit, if I were in the Senate, by now I'd have been Censured at least 200 times.

On Edit: Dammit spelling error.

He was right, and he should have stuck to his guns. Yup, he's a punk.

Considering I support Clark...as well as Edwards and Warner.

http://nobelprize.org/literature/laureates/2005/pinter-lecture.html



The bu$h evil empire must be stopped!

1) Dean speaks for me!!!
2) Murtha speaks for me!!!
3) Pelosi speaks for me!!!

We're getting ready for what's next!!!

I regret that the others don't want my vote, don't want my help, and don't want to take our country back from the lying BFEE.

who exposed Bushco well before the war, repeatedly (and correctly) predicted all the nasty things that have happened, and consistently plunges the knife into Bushco while smiling and speaking diplomatically so that he can't be smeared as just another Dem. weakling.

Kucinich speaks for me too. Weicker and Hart can be added to the speak-for-me list.

Except when ordering at the steak house. Then our paths diverge. :)

With your hilarious comments which somehow connected Hillary Clinton to the 1913 Federal Reserve Changes, The Elite Bankers, the New World Order and the American Union?

Goodness, I read that stuff and I laughed out loud!

would do your research.........Hillary and Bill are working with the Elites.....get a clue

Bama

Kucinich, Boxer, Conyers, Murtha...

Stop fishing for votes from moderate repugs and shore up your own base.

There are millions of non-voters looking for a voice to vote for in the elections. Someone who will speak out against this illegal & shameful war, someone who will speak for the common man, not the CEO, someone who will demand accountability of our elected leaders.

Expand the base and go and get independent votes. Nobody EVER won an election just by preaching to the choir. You win an election by expanding your base and going out and getting other votes.

You might not like this, but it's true and it's a fact.

Look at the voter turnout percentages in any American election.

More democrats sat on their asses and did not bother to make it to the polls. We need a nominee that can energize the base. We need someone who sounds like a democrat not a republican lite.

Often it's been like herding cats.

Why is this administration still doing business as usual! Our Children Husbands, Brothers, Sisters are dying and STILL over in Iraq! We were PUNKED! Bring them home NOW! Bush in Jail! Cheney in Jail! Rummy, JAIL!

And, yes, the rest can go jump in the river.

...who shut down the Senate to force the Intelligence Committee to act... and about a gazillion others who are doing things to end the Iraq debacle. But who's counting, right?

NGU.

Frankly, there are precious few in the whole lot of them I deem worthy of representing the "people." Most of them are whores who went into politics for the money and power and are turning our country into a fascist hellhole.

P.S. What's NGU?

...just love seeing us spread the meme that they are.

And NGU is Never Give Up, my personal motto since 11/03/04.

NGU.

And for the sake of overthrowing the bastards, I guess I can make some compromises. I shall try to contain my abject disappointment in any Democrat who actively counters the right-wing bastards, even if they made lousy decisions that helped Bush/Cheney/Rove/PNAC turn our country into a fascist farce. (Just pass me some of those pink pills over there and I'll be fine in just a minute....)

...and yes, it's driven many of us to pink pills in the past. LOL

NGU.

We, the people have to do it. I love Boxer, Conyers, and that's about it these days. They fought for Ohio's Recount. I'm pissed at Feingold for approving of Johnny Bob Taliban for Supreme Court.

Many of you have looked at Ohio's HB3...it's absolutely anti-democratic. It's unf*ckingbelievable to me that this is probably going to be law here.

We can either vote Green or start the BOYCOTT THE VOTE Movement....At least this would shine a light on the loss of our democracy. We could educate people this way. 'Why vote? The Corporation doesn't count it.'

I think it has come to drastic measures here in Ohio....Rove's little 'lab rat.' Rove figures if it can work in Ohio, they can take their 'model' to other states. We have got to do something outrageous to bring attention to the loss of our Democracy.

...you're miserably naive. In a representative democracy, when the people lead, the leaders follow. That's the "representative" part, and it's the one civics lesson that the Radical RW has learned well.

And if you're going to "vote Green" or - OMFG - "start the boycott the vote movement," do it because that's what you feel is right to do - not because Russ Feingold voted the wrong way ONCE out of about a million votes. Otherwise, you're acting like an ill-informed child holding his/her/its breath.

NGU.

pantie-waisted pussy-footing around. (If I could think of a few more cliches, I add them! LOL) I'm truly sick of the loser wimp mentality that has taken over the party.

"EVIL BushCo. is committing murder in your name every single day" - so who do you blame?? The Dems!! Even though many of them are honestly trying to broker an end to this quagmire as best they can. The sloppy logic of a twelve-year-old.

NGU.

Look it's already got 15 votes...this is how popular bashing of Democrats is.

I sincerely hope that when the 2006 mid-term elections are on, these people can refrain from bashing our candidates...Democrats bashing Democrats ONLY helps the Repukes.

Democrats honestly trying to broker an end to this quagmire? I musta missed them.

:wtf:

Would that be the quagmire that our Precious Democrats were too scared to actually oppose two years and 2130 lives ago? OMG! What if I get laughed at on Fox?

dbt

...actually saving lives?

More about, "You didn't oppose the war two years ago so we don't want your help now," rather than, "It took you long enough to catch up - now let's get to work?"

:eyes: Sheesh.

NGU.

The Lieberman sort of "don't undermine our Commander?" Or the Hillary sort of "Let's outlaw flag burning so I can look Electable?" And "saving lives" is about 2130 expended lives for profit too late, IMO.

Sheesh yourself!
:eyes:
dbt

Someone's been drinking the Faux koolaid...

:rofl:

NGU.

The party leadership will not dump Lieberman. Why not? He helps the enemy at every opportunity.

Why will the leadership not dump him? This is not a rhetorical question.

I want to know if there is any legitimate answer.

...asking the only people who can answer it.

NGU.

Why haven't they announced a candidate to run against him in 2006?

You KNOW he is not on our side. So why does our leadership support him?

There must be an answer to this question. What do YOU think is the answer?

I don't believe in the Democratic Party leadership right now, but you may still believe.

Just because the corporate media like to make stars out of Lieberman and Clinton, that doesn't make them our "leaders."

Besides, as someone else so astutely asked on this thread, are you guided by leaders or by ideas?

NGU.

Howard Dean is the chair of the DNC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Dean

He is marginalized by Lieberman. Lieberman actively works against the party. He covers up Bush's crimes. Using the media to help.

http://lieberman.senate.gov/newsroom/release.cfm?id=245208

He initiated a whitewash of the Katrina horror under the cover of a bi-partisan investigation. Bi-partisan from this Congress. No one can believe he is sincere on that. He is a traitor.

Why doesn't the DNC support someone else for Lieberman's seat?

It seems like a simple question. I don't know why is so difficult to express.

NGU.

and it is troubling to us. The obvious answer is not very pretty. The party leadership isn't on our side at all. It might not be all that important. We follow ideas, not people.

Why engage in shadowy speculation and suspicion? Why don't you get involved in the Party and start asking why? Maybe that's just what the party needs is people who ARE on our side? Ya think??

Nawww... it's easier to sit in front of a monitor and whine and jump to conclusions.

NGU.

I was just asking what I thought was a simple honest question. I guess you were also being honest when you say you don't know the answer. But, if you just think that it's a bunch of Democrat bashing to wonder about it, well then...

And do some good in the process.

NGU.

Is not a good thing. I'm constantly shocked at the "Rah Rah Rahing" when someone goes off on a pre-teen tantrum like the OP did, and gives it votes and puts it on the Greatest Page...it's an outrage.

Their rant isn't even coherent. How is EVERY Democratic politician except Dean, Murtha and Pelosi:

"A bunch of punks"

What is Boxer a PUNK? Is Kerry a PUNK? Is Murray a PUNK? I could go on...but you should get the gist of it.

Maybe the Original Poster could explain to us HOW Barbara Boxer is a PUNK for example...eh?

If the Democrats spoke with one voice, this war would be over. But some of them are hog-tied to the military-corporate complex, with war profiteering as the driver of it all. And that IS the kind of Democrat whom the Bushite electronic voting companies and their brethren, the war profiteering corporate news monopolies, ARE going to "select" for us, as a candidate, and if they decide to do it--for their own purposes (for instance, to get a military Draft)--that's who will win. The plan is to expand the war into Iran and Syria, and whoever can get that done gets "selected."

The only conceivable way for us to defeat having NO choice in '08 (War Democrat vs. War Republican) is to throw Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!

There are many local election reform movements afoot to do just that, but, without strong support from the Dem Party, it's going to be a long slog to retrieve our right to vote.

There is Feingold's bill in Congress HR 550, which will help a lot. Banning the "trade secret" programming code and other reforms will be mandated for '06. It has 170 or so sponsors, as I recall.

Then there is the hope that even a War Democrat has to pay lip service to progressive values like honest elections, and even if a War Democrat is foisted upon us, we might be able to get speedy national reform under such an administration (while avoiding pitfalls, like federalization of elections and mandated electronic voting, centralized electronic voter database, and voter ID, nationwide--all prone to easy fascist takeover; our state diversity is a strength). We would then have transparent elections for the 2nd decade of the 21st century.

There is one other path for '06 and '08, and that is, turnouts of such overwhelmingly numbers that it overcomes the fraud. Some think Kerry could have won if he'd been antiwar and had thus garnered a higher margin of victory than his probable 4% to 5% margin (if all suppressed, purged, 'disappeared,' switched, and provisionalled Dem votes had been counted). The electronic voting fraudsters have to be careful not to be too obvious.*

I think the poll numbers are up around SEVENTY PERCENT these days, of Americans who want nothing more to do with these Mideast war plans. You'd think an antiwar candidate could be elected president in these circumstances, and, with a fair vote, and honest news organizations, he/she could be. And, who knows? Miracles sometimes do happen. But we cannot realistically expect anything better than a War Democrat, I'm afraid. We must strategize on the basis of truth and reality to restore our right to vote and our democracy.

------------

*Recently, in Ohio, four ELECTION REFORM initiatives went down to a 60/40 defeat, after pre-election polls predicted a 60/40 WIN for all four. Clearly, Diebold & co. are working on flipping over large percentages of votes with impunity--and not just tweaking relatively close votes that we can overcome with our large numbers. See Bob Koehler's article on the Ohio initiatives:
http://www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?custid=67&catid=1824

The they will be your latest DINO...and then who will you follow?

...and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Oh wait, I did!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2298849&mesg_id=2298849

Mine is less exciting!





Kicked and Nominated!

:kick:

On edit: oops replied to wrong thing!

they don't work for us. They work for corporations. They are more afraid of losing donors than voters.

How hard is it for the 'wise ones' to say Bush is a fucking liar; well, let's take 'fucking' out.

Bush is a liar. Repeat after me, Bush is a liar.

btw, Harry Reid's been calling him a liar for months. He speaks for me.

that G-d's last name is not "damn".......

... and I suppose you also deny that George W. Bush is God's Anointed Representative on Earth?

Heretic.

"If they don't start admitting that the Bush Administration is dishonest and they lied us into an illegal war...THEREFORE, we stand against THEM, and demand they stop!!!"
Tata.....it was fun having you here too.

"2) Murtha speaks for me!!!"
"Flag-protection legislation introduced by Congressman John Murtha of Pennsylvania and Randy “Duke” Cunningham of California was passed by the U.S. House of Representatives yesterday.
The legislation would amend the U.S. Constitution."

http://www.house.gov/murtha/news/nw030604.htm

think AHEAD sometimes what the ramifications of his words will bring to the rest of the party. I love Howard Dean but sometimes he's gotta learn to avoid saying things in a manner in which the other side can paint our side with a broad brush as losers. Sometimes Howard has to bite the bullet on saying the things we'd like to hear, and re-phrase them in a better way, a way that still has the same meaning but can't be taken out of context.

BTW, I think it's sad that any Democrat can call Hillary Clinton, Ford, or Joe Biden a "mother fucker" and leave it at that like you just did. I don't know about Ford, but there are few Democrats who have been as vocally against Bush's Iraq War Policy as Clinton and Biden. Neither one of them is perfect, though, and if their policies don't line up 100% with the ideals of this forum, I guess they're mother fuckers and oughta be lynched, tarred and feathered, eh.

doesn’t allow room for any detail.

Besides that, do you follow "leaders," or do you follow ideas?

So...Kucinich, Conyers, Sheila Jackson-Lee, Barbara Lee, Cynthia McKinney?

:eyes:

The problem being that it left out far too many of the good and decent Dems... Yes there are some shitty ones. I agree, but he/she shouldn't have made a blanket statement,

I have been at DU almost since the beginning. What I have learned over these years is this...we are being gamed by the political establishment in Washington. The Constitution is dead. Our government is being ruled by Corporations and both parties are just playing the Democracy game. Give the people just enough noise and confusion to keep the illusion of Democracy alive and behind the scenes the real work is being done.

n/t

:)

:headbang:

This is not productive.

You are therefore the first poster to ever be put on my "ignore" list.

Congratulations.

Nothing wromg with guys like Reid, Durbin or Pelosi in my book.

As for guys like clinton or Lieberman well I have b asically disowned them in my mind cause they way they been talking about the war, there not real democrats in my book just a bunch of repubwannabes.

Oh not only does the democratic leadership speaks for me but guys like Byrd, mcgovern and Mcdermott do as well.