News breaks Ashcroft refused to authorize wiretaps, Dems Silent.

the Dems shoud not be afraid of bush on the domestic wiretapping issue.

Even John "let the mighty eagle soar" Ashcroft refused to authorize Bush's domestic spying program.

Even Red states will back you on this one, Ben Nelson. Americans don't like to have their phones tapped illegally, at least in my experience.

This issue is too fundamental to the concept of Individual Liberty to allow any compromise. No Secret hearings, no executive priveledge. Either Bush comes clean and the program is brought within the bounds of the Constitution or a United Democratic Party should use every tactic possible, including halting business in the senate and as much as possible in the house until the executive branch complies.

We've been waiting for 5 years for the Dems to make a stand...

Now get behind Feingold, you cowering wussies.

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"I don't care,"... "Whatever political considerations I have are absolutely irrelevant to the decisions I make having to do with people's civil liberties and something as weighty as Americans risking their lives overseas. The day that I start think politically about those things is the day I should leave politics."
Russ Feingold - D (WI)


“My oath is to the Constitution, not to a vice president, a president or a political party.”
Chuck Hagel - R (Neb)

12/05
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The senate seats of these two are safe. Do you know one big reason why?
Their constituents believe they can trust them to stand up for what is right when it matters most.
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I know it's the holidays, but give us something. The news of Ashcroft's refusal is already buried in the msm, and bush's twisted "defense" which seems to amount to repeating the word "limited" many times, is the only story of the day, on this huge issue. Just give us a statement or something. Something more than Schumer on Fox news Sunday.

anyways, if you can point me to new statements by any dems please do.

as do I, request a link to support the thread.

"But in March 2004, White House chief of staff Card and White House Counsel Gonzales visited Ashcroft, the seriously ill attorney general, to try to get him to overrule Comey, who was officially acting as A.G. while Ashcroft was incapacitated. Ashcroft refused, and a battle over what to do broke out in the Justice Department and at the White House."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10663996/site/newsweek/page/4/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10663996/site/newsweek/

'On one day in the spring of 2004, White House chief of staff Andy Card and the then White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales made a bedside visit to John Ashcroft, attorney general at the time, who was stricken with a rare and painful pancreatic disease, to try—without success—to get him to reverse his deputy, Acting Attorney General James Comey, who was balking at the warrantless eavesdropping.'

i only see the NY Times thread that said is was unknown what Ashcroft's response is. Everything last night was missing that puzzle piece, so I beleive this is new news. It shld be in LBN.

the story went to print yesterday morning. i thought everyone was aware.

and everything i saw had no answer yet to the ashcroft question. you should post this now! i searched LBN for ashcroft and newseek, no one has posted this article yet.

Accounts differed as to exactly what was said at the hospital meeting between Mr. Ashcroft and the White House advisers. But some officials said that Mr. Ashcroft, like his deputy, appeared reluctant to give Mr. Card and Mr. Gonzales his authorization to continue with aspects of the program in light of concerns among some senior government officials about whether the proper oversight was in place at the security agency and whether the president had the legal and constitutional authority to conduct such an operation.

It is unclear whether the White House ultimately persuaded Mr. Ashcroft to give his approval to the program after the meeting or moved ahead without it.

Under the effects of lots of Demerol I suspect ! But IMHO, the entire Bushco crowd is already mentally incapacitated to preserve protect defend the Constitution and fellow citizens. It was always their way or the highway.

i'm afraid of that stop sign:)

you can go rate it up or kick it later. :)
i didn't even see that anyone on the NY Times thread saw it either, so. I bet Keith Olberman is the only one to cover it today.
i put (Ashcroft said NO!!) in the headline. Tks for the link!!

that this two faced clown of a president who is constantly harping about Freedom and Liberty can turn around and undermine those very tenants of Democracy here at home. What a total hypocrite!

every US newspaper. Don't leave it buried at the end of another story in a weekly newsmagazine.

Former Attorney General Ashcroft Refused to Authorize Domestic Wiretapping

There's your headline. %$#@$^%&^%*

Gee, I wonder if his refusal has anything to do with him not being in the cabinet today. Hmmmm.

Christ, the US media deserves its slow disintegration. Leave it to the handful of investigative reporters and bloggers to save this goddamn country.

(strap on the tinfoil)
blackmailing both republican and democratic members of congress..
maybe even members of the press, officers in the miltary, foreign leaders, etc... ???
What if they are sitting on stacks of private and personal information
that could be used as levers and controls to exert their power and will???

It certainly wouldn't be the first time in history thst blackmail
and extortion have served corrupt governments.

It's certainly possible...
and looking more likely every day.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=182603&mesg_id=182648

Ben H. Bell's Global Information Group Ltd. has all our data. TIA was offshored, outsourced, and privatized my friend. All under everyone's noses.

i don't really care who looks at any record in the world on me. i am responsible for any mistakes or achievments i have had, but i'll help fight this one on principle ...

i do feel confident it won't be lonely.

This goes to the absolute root of our society. If this is allowed to stand, it really is over.

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."

Eisenhower

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i miss Ike.

"We must all hang together, or assuredly, we shall all hang separately."
Benjamin Franklin

Other than the uberpartisan Republicans offering an excuse as to why he did it (doesn't matter), most scholars with an ounce of integrity have said he flat-out broke the law.

IMO this scandal should ripen. Often the MSM will call BS if the Dems pounce precipitously. This requires a special prosecutor. Let the outrage permeate the ranks of the Republicans, as it already is, and then call for a special prosecutor.

We've got 'em, kids. This is one that will stick. Of all the pile of felonies junior has committed, this is the one that will sink the bastard.

from Schultz's show re wiretapping (starting around 6:40)....
http://audio.wegoted.com/podcasting/122105SenatorKerry.mp3

Heis not on legal ground.
To claim any rationale for go around FISA is a reach too far.
Takes this admin right back to that place of denial where they've been so long.
Extremely concerned about domestic spying, spying on political and anti war groups.
Takes me back to Nixon...

This is not verbatim. Can't type that fast. His comments on Press were similar, IIRC.

Meanwhile here's an unexpected ally;


William Safire: "I'm with the critics"- over warrantless wiretapping

"I was writing a speech on welfare reform, and the president looks at it and says, "OK, I'll go with it, but this is not going to get covered. Leak it as far an wide as you can beforehand. Maybe we'll get something in the paper." And so I go back to my office and I get a call from a reporter, and he wants to know about foreign affairs or something, and I said, "Hey, you want a leak? I'll tell you what the president will say tomorrow about welfare reform." And he took it down and wrote a little story about it. But the FBI was illegally tapping his phone at the time, and so they hear a White House speechwriter say, "Hey, you want a leak?" And so they tapped my phone, and for six months, every home phone call I got was tapped. I didn't like that. And when it finally broke--it did me a lot of good at the time, frankly, because then I was on the right side--but it told me how easy it was to just take somebody who is not really suspected of anything for any good reason and listen to every conversation in his home--you know, my wife talking to her doctor, my--everything.

"So I have this thing about personal privacy. And I think what's happening now is that the--as a result of that scandal back in the '70s, we got this electronic eavesdropping act stopping it, or requiring the president to go before this court. Now, this court's a rubber-stamp court, let's face it. They give five noes and 20,000 yeses."

NOt a face that is usually seen on these pages, but he'll convince a few moderate repugs to see this our way.

He has a funny way of being right about a lot of things.