Good Economy

This morning Chris Matthews said that the economy was actually good. I do not see how people can say that about the economy. Correct me if I am wrong, but was it not reported on the news yesterday that jobless claims had reached a five year high. Just this morning it was reported that Independence Air flew its last flight last night in that the company went bankrupt. I know that the company was small, but how can you say that the economy is good when jobless claims are high and companies are going bankrupt.

seen.

How is the economy the worst you have ever seen. Please explain to me. I have an MBA in economics, so bring your A game.

we report what we see, and what we see is an economy that stinks to high heaven

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we are not idiots

these factors as indicators of your robust economy:







The truth is that our economy is performing well for the ultrawealthy who are benefiting form unprecedented wealth redistribution from to poor to the rich but it's an abomination for the shrinking middle class and the growing poor.

that describe economic "wellness" to suit themselves the basis for comparing the present to the past is almost meaningless.

NoFederales

MS - Master of Science in Economics
MA - Master of Art in Economics

Those are the degrees I have heard conferred in Econ. at the first graduate level. Can alos get a BA or BS and Dr. in econ.

Man freepers are too much!

I mean the 15 dollar an hour job with no benefits is way better than the 26 an hour with benefits we used to have.

or have had their unemployment benefits run out,and still don't have a job?

I'm one of millions, I'm sure of it. I guess under Bush we're all thankful to just have any job with miniscule benefits. I would like to be paid enough to move out of my parent's house at some point, but I guess I'm in some crazy dreamland when I think of that.

The economy isn't that bad. It has been improving as of late and your facts are wrong, the un-employment rate is at its Lowest in five years. And by the way, Independence Air was not a great company to begin with. It just didn't have the business plan to compete with other discount air companies, ie Air Tran.

Maybe you have just made decisions in your life that put you in the economic situation you find yourself in today.

was to blame for my bad economic situation.

It is a known fact that American Auto makers can't compete with foreign makers. Unless you drive a truck, and those damn asians are catching up(sarcastic). Ford is better that GM is guess, but maybe you should start you own company, if you have a good idea. Or you could come work for me.

Every time I see him I have to ask him if he still has a job. Tough field to work in.

If you just look at the numbers, the economy is doing well. But the warning signs are there. Much of the growth in the economy is from consumer spending, which has been fueled by tapping into rising home equity, which has been fueled by the overheated housing market. Our growth is being driven more and more by debt financed from abroad, which cannot be sustained forever. At some point, something has to give.

Nice reply. Nice to see some of you look deeper into things. You are exactly correct with what you are saying about debt. There are so many "numbers" being tossed around and most are positive for our economy, but in my opinion, the greatest problem our economy is facing is the debt, not of the government, but of our citizens. Somewhere along the way, this is going to cause a huge fallout........

for a number of years.

The federal debt is unsustainable - we have been warned (unprecedented, I believe) by the IMF about our debt spending on the federal level.

The amount of corporate debt leaves many corporations at great risk. The great (not so) game in the late eighties leveraged buy-out binge was for corporations to take on enough debt to be unattractive for takeover, but not so much debt as to be at risk for takeover. Both were related to a period of corporate mergers that has continued that creates a whole lot of paper money to be made (transactions and stock market as indicators rather than on revenues - that is more money going to the less productive aspects of the endeavors - rather than going INTO investment in r and d, or infrastructure. More and more businesses began (and continue) to be driven by very short term goals as measured in stock prices - rather than long-term business planning/investment driven by overall revenues/profits projected into the future - over time, competitve edges were lost. Ah, but I diverge on side issues not directly tied to my concerns per debt.

Increased ratios of risky corporate debt held by major financial institutions. The potential of major ripple effects due to risk exposure was glimpsed briefly in the Enron implosion - in terms of the financing recieved for many risky vehicles that Enron used to mask debt, but in the process increased the exposure to banks like JP Morgan Chase.

Then - as you suggest - the massive levels of consumer debt. This has concerned me for quite awhile - and during that time it has become an even greater problem given the level of which the housing sector has fueled the economy in the past couple of years, combined with riskier and riskier mortgage and refinancing products. A small housing stumble won't due much. However were something to start triggering massive defaults - and there could be massive problems - for individuals, for banks holding notes, for companies needing infusions of $ from banks, and so on and so on.

based on their current economic situations - starting with monthly budgets, moving to the degree they feel economically secure (that is - current job or income situation is stable and not at risk) - rather on macro indicators.

There are two huge areas that are taking a bite out of folks monthly budgetsd - direct and indirect increases in costs related to fuel (both gas and heating) - direct of course is the amount paid out of the budget, the indirect being increased costs of goods such as food items that increase in areas where food is transported over a good distance to make it to the local grocery store; and for those lucky enough to have insurance - increasing premiums/copays etc.

If overall individuals perceive things to be sunny - they can buy the line you throw out here... must just be me, I must have made some mistake - because everyone else is doing well... ergo when my situation changes, I too will do well. However if one knows that many are feeling the same pinch (that is - friends, relatives, neighbors, members of affiliated networks like churches or clubs), the latter becomes hard to sustain belief in over time. When things don't get better on the monthly analysis - the degree of sense of economic security begins to erode.

IMO it is these factors that accounts for the polls where most folks feel the economy is worsening. Has nothing to do with macro indicators - and all to do with how folks and those around them are experiencing their individual micro economies over time.

Other troubling signs:

* Home heating oil prices
* The number of jobs created in December was 108,000, an anemic number because it takes at least 150,000 a month just to account for population growth.
* The trend in job creation is for new jobs to come in retail, health-care services and government.
* The economy in New Orleans and the Mississippi Gulf Coast has been destroyed and isn't coming back anytime soon.
* Gold is selling for about $540 an ounce.
* Bank of America plans to cut 9,000 to 10,000 jobs this year.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

I don't think that Walmart and other MW paying retailers opening store after store is a sign that the economy is sailing along like most RW'er would want people to belive. Fact is thousands upon thousands of skilled,high paying jobs have been outsourced.

Going from a $15.00-20.00 job down to $7.00 and then having Bush claim that unemployment numbers are low doesn't even begin to tell the REAL story. REAL jobs,that payed good LIVABLE wages have been lost and are being tossed aside on a daily basis for cheap ass labor in India and Mexico.

I live in Wichita,workers have been shit-canned,tossed aside,work outsourced now for about four years. Those weren't Walmart wages....

That idea of getting a Bachelors Degree in Computer Science was obviously the worst decision in my life. I was so crazy in 1999 to think that I'd be able to be a software engineer in the USA for the rest of my life and make a decent living. How crazy of me to get a decent education in a field doing something that I really enjoy. I'm currently employed and making $20k a year in a job that I could do with a high school degree. So do you think I give a shit about the low unemployment numbers? Well, NO, I don't (said in the Ted Stevens sort of way.)

Don't pay attention to the fact that you didn't get a raise last year (at least you still have a job), that you have to pay more for your insurance (and your copay went up - but thats good for you, you will use healthcare more sparingly), that food costs have gone up (due to increased gas costs for transporting the food to the grocery), that gas is up (but hey its WAY down from the spike after Katrina - don't look at the prices for a year or two ago to judge gas costs), and the costs to heat your home have gone up astronomically. SO your monthly income is declining... that isn't real - what I am telling you is what is real...and what I am telling you is that the economy is GREAT, and I am the reason it is GREAT and you should be loyal to me because of it... your personal reality isn't anything to judge the economy upon - it is an anomoly - only YOU are doing less well, so it must be YOUR fault, so believe me and give me credit... step right up and hear how GREAT the economy is today!

Oh, on your way out, make sure to buy the special elixer from the snake oil salesmen.

their inflation numbers. Then only figures that republicans count is how well the stock market is doing.

but when the individual reality stays in a state of perceived instability, at some point a great stock market, for those with few investments (say - only in small 401K mutual fund accounts) the excitement of the market loses the ability to gloss over their reality in terms of how the economy is perceived. The last time one sees this sustained sense of instability that moved over into the perception that the economy is in bad shape (even though it had begun a recovery) was in Bush the senior's administration.

then they should be pretty pissed off. The Dow closed 2005 flat. If you invested in a fund indexed to the Dow you didn't make any money last year.

Market is barely higher (I think) than when he took office.

After the tech bubble a lot of investment went to real estate. People feel wealthier (and are wealthier) because of the home equity wealth. Some of that money is coming back into the market but not a lot yet.

Soon, they won't have any. By then, it'll be too late.

<snip>

"Minutes from a mid-December meeting of Federal Reserve policy-makers released Tuesday showed some officials think the United States might currently be near full employment."

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/05/news/economy/jobless_claims.reut/index.htm

In other words, you're just stupid and/or lazy if you can't find a decent job in this economy. :dunce:

Stocks rise on jobs report

Nasdaq, S&P 500 gain on bets that soft December jobs report means interest rate hikes will soon end.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Stocks climbed Friday morning as investors welcomed a weaker-than-expected December jobs report, betting that it means the Federal Reserve can stop its rate-hiking campaign in the near future.

Wall Street's Profits off the Hard Luck of Average People

It's obvious that the more people lose jobs, suffer wage and benefit cuts and can't find jobs, the greater the profits for those who have no need to work -- they live off their investments and the backs of the American people. No wonder outsourcing and the importation of cheap labor is the new philosophy of 'inevitability' for the American aristocracy!

BTW: Chris Matthews, aside from being thin-skinned, is like so many millionaires - as long as they are rolling in riches, all is fine and well in the world!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

the economy is great, employment is up. Too bad many of the modern jobs offer no or little pension plans. Why is that, so the Rich CEOs can all be billionaires while the working man works to age 75?

I am one of the people suffering in this sucky economy.
I have spent money to take classes, upgraded my skills, taken tests to become licensed in new careers, and still no luck.
I am not interested in going into business for myself...I am too old for that crap and don't want to pay double the SS.

A year ago, there were more jobs in the newspaper to apply for...now, maybe one or two.
Oh, I look at monster.com, careerbuilder.com, and hotjobs.com, but there is NOTHING out there.
A year ago, at least I was able to get an interview...now, not ONE!

So, after calling the unemployment office, I was told I was eligible to receive benefits once again starting next month. At least there will be SOME money coming in.

NEVER have I had this much trouble finding a job.

The online polls posted by MSNBC and CNN today said it all. More than 3/4 believe the economy sucks.

....by the number of jobless people who are dropped off the charts after their claims have run out, and they are no longer listed!!

Those numbers are at an all time high. Plus the underemployed are back at the levels that they were during the Reagan "Revolution" when they claimed such a large number of jobs created, and they were more than dominated by burger flipping jobs. And trust me, I was in restaurant management back then. Lots of new low paying jobs were created and not much else!

the middle class is being destroyed

bush's base--the super rich--are doing extraordinarily well, but most of us are on the verge of losing everything

Right now, there is a push being made to legitimize the catastophe that IS the Bush economic policy. They've cooked the books on unemployment for five years, desperately trying to prove to us that we aren't losing jobs. They do this by refusing to count people who have fallen off the unemployment benefits. In other words, once you no longer can get benefits, they conclude you are working. This is why the "rate" they have been touting the past two years is so flat, hanging at an almost constant 5.0 percent.

Folks, this is no different than Ferris Bueller changing his grades by getting inside the program at his school. It's cheating, and it's a LIE.

Are things getting better or worse? THAT is the question.

They are getting much worse. Gone are the days a person graduating from high school could get a wage that will support one person, muchless support a family. Gone are the days when a hard worker could stick with one company for life. Gone are worker security. Gone are good jobs that be counted on, cannot be outsourced to India.

Bush = shell & pea economics. It is slight of hand. It sells you a LIE through misdirection.

Those of us whose knowledge of life doesn't begin with the Reagan administration know that the country has been here before. In the 1920s, Calvin Coolidge liked to quip like Bush, liked to joke with reporters, liked to think that what is good for business is good for America. While the farm belt was DYING, Cool Cal fiddled on Wall Street, and oh, the illegal booze did flow in the speakeasy.

It all came crashing down in 1929, wrongly blamed by most on Herbert Hoover, who merely inherited the mess that was certain to follow Coolidge's reign of error.

Bush is idiot, surrounded by people who were picked not for skill, but for loyalty and their ability to convincingly kiss Bush's ass. God help us all.

...and agree.