MSNBC Poll, over 50% support facist move againt Sheehan!?

Fix this poll, this is disturbing...


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11121444/

Fuck msnbc; if sure would be nice if they got their facts straight before reporting on something/anything.:grr:

It's an internet poll. I don't know why so many people here take those so seriously.

boycott the entire MSM, every time we hit CNN or MSNBC we are giving them attention they don't deserve.

Mostly, they're voting against the liberal label of Cindy Sheehan. You could ask these same people about that Florida congressman's wife and get the opposite response.

Second, we haven't done anything to get the real story out. The original story I heard, I agreed. After hearing her side, it was outrageous.

spying polls.

Being "removed" is a far cry from being arrested and held for over 4 hours.

:eyes:

It is 53 to 47% right now. I think the poll has been freeped.

Maybe they ALLOWED "this Fascist thing with Cindy Sheehan" to happen because they knew that their base would approve of it, and OUR BASE would be too consumed with it to discuss the real issues raised by Bush in the SOTU address? Maybe they want us talking about his instead of other things?

Just a thought.

TC

everywhere. They painted her as an extremist, a wacko, and now they can violate her rights. That's exactly what happened to the Jews in Germany and that's exactly what's happening to liberals in the US and IT WILL HAPPEN TO ALL OF US. This is too far gone, and just like it was impossible to stop them in Germany, it is now impossible to stop them here. If the dems had 42 votes against Alito and yet could not pull off a filibuster, there is no power left in this country to stop the fascists. Get ready for fascism. It is already here.

You would have to have no idea what jews and other minority groups went thru in Nazi Germany to equate it to today's situation.

1930's.

Thse are diaries by a Jewish German literature professor.

Its not really seamless story telling because they are diaries but incredibly insightful nonetheless.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0375753788/104-6987881-8017538?v=glance&n=283155

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0375756973/ref=pd_sim_b_1/104-6987881-8017538?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155

"But this is how it started for Jews back in"

No, it isn't. Liberals haven't even acquired the reviled status of hippies in this country, let alone Jews in Nazi Germany.

in certain circles in America. Don't kid yourself.

I'm not going to get into the Jewish comparison. But I say flatly that Liberals are reviled (equal to or worst than hippies) in populations where "otherization" has spread in this country. Not quite as much as artists, but they are down there.

"But I say flatly that Liberals are reviled (equal to or worst than hippies) in populations where "otherization" has spread in this country. Not quite as much as artists, but they are down there. "

I would agree, there are haters everywhere. At the same time I heard more anti-smetic and way more racist talk than I have ever heard about liberals. My point was to compare the situ now to what jews and other "undesirables" faced reveals that one has to reread their history on what happened.

Yes, it's important to grasp what really happened to the Jews and not to make such comparisons lightly.
I think your references are good ones to bring that point home.

I took issue with your statement that liberals have not been reviled as much as hippies. Just the other day I was lurking unseen behind some shop display and heard a clerk casually running down Ted Kennedy to a friend. Her invective was so full of bile and hate (straight off of rightwing radio) I couldn't help but prick up my ears.

most polls I've seen this morning have had a definate right wing bias.

If you know what you are doing it is easy for one person to create thousands of votes.

Many people actually believe the first intentionally misleading report about this incident - that Cindy was about to unfurl a banner.
The media did a great job for Rove in spreading lies about this arrest.
Cindy was arrested for being who she is.
She said nothing, she did nothing.
It would have been bad enough to remove her, but to arrest her?

nt

Her story is unfortunate and her dedication commendable, but unfortunately she has been mis guided and used by some of the more extrimist(or perceived to be extrimist) elements in our party. She does our effort no good. Keep in perspective that sometimes things need to be sacrifieced for a greater good, and that is getting this country headed back in the right direction, for ALL americans not just democrats.

And, what extremists? You mean like the Veterans against the war? Those "evil" extremists who have seen the horrors of war up close and personal? Not like the glorious chickenhawks who like to prance and pretend that they are manly, manly guys who'd go in a heartbeat if it wasn't for that dang anal cyst or that drugging up so I couldn't fly or hey, i'd go if I didn't have other important things to do. Of course, they never saw a war profiteer they didn't like, including themselves. I don't know how old you are, but apparently you skipped the sixties and seventies. I didn't!!!!! So she's an extremist. Well, it looks like we have a quantity of extremists in this country today, especially those sitting in the White House. No, I won't let it go. They have trampled on the Constitution, the Bill of Rights--our civil liberties. And, when it is all gone, what is left of the good old USA? We won't be anything special because there will no longer be a constitution to uphold-just another Banana Republic, like the other Banana Republic's of the world.

Ofcourse those men who served, and sheehan are not extrimist, but thats the perception of the public outside of DU, thanks in part to the character assasinations by the neo-cons.

Look I agree we you guys at the DU, I beleive in what you are striving to achieve, I just dont approve of some your methods/strategies, one of them being Mrs.Sheehan, hence the let it go...

All you say is true, but my point is what the f*ck does that all matter when at the and of the day Kerry a proven war veteran got his character assasinated and beaten by a man who deserted and should be tried for treason.

Truth is in perception, know the challenge is making that perception be true.

Being quiet, shutting up, and towing their line gets us no where. That's what they want---we have no media-it is bought and paid for by the corporate GOP---I'm not going to have my grandkids ask me "why did you let it happen? That's what apathy got the Germans---why didn't you hold them accountable-why did you let them lie us into a war that killed thousands? why did you let them steal the treasury? why did you let them steal our heritage? And, what public? I'd say almost half of the people of this country know exactly what's going on and the other half could watch this administration murder a bunch of innocent people on the WH lawn and they'd still be in denial. They'd probably look at it as another reality show.

I am saying hit em from another angle. This "Sheehan story" has played it self out.
Like a pop star people get tired of the same old thing, and soon they even grow resentfull of that pop star unless they change their image/message etc.
Its a fickle crowd. They aint concerned with facts, the only facts they are concerned with is with those they can understand and fit nicely in their lives.

Cindy sheehan is perceived as puppet of the far left wing, not to you or I, but to many of those whose(centrist) "support" we need.

What public? the same public that "voted" for a deserter, over a tried and true combat veteran at a time of war, due to the perception created by the neo-cons.
We gotta stop being so stubborn and play this game of perception, and play it right.

Let Sheehan go and do her thing, there is honor in what she is doing, but I think its a mistake to let "the media" or even us, make her the face/most outspoken representative of our party.

This is horrible and cold, but its how I think non-DUers feel when they hear of see cindy sheehan "damn again with this crazy same unstable lady whinning and complaining about dead horse issues"

was I live in a swing state, Nevada. And, you know what happened in Nevada don't you? It seems that Voter Outreach came to Nevada to register voters, but tore up the Democratic registrations, then a Republican judge determined that those voters could not re-register. Of course, moving to this state, I thought we had papered machines-oh no, when the presidential election comes along all of a sudden there are more unpapered machines than papered at the precincts. In one precinct the only two papered machines-one was broke-all others were paperless. No accountability, no recounting, no proof. I would say more than half of this country knows something ain't quite right--something smells big time. Now the media is attempting to shape this administration's "reality," afterall, Bush said that they create the reality. That is a lie--they may think if they say something over and over again, it will become the truth--but it is still a lie and will remain a lie no matter how hard they attempt to create "their" reality. I'm not buying the perceptions of "most Americans", because I know enough Americans do know what's going on, not just on DU.

between what Ms.Sheehan is doing and all the other issues we must fight. Otherwise i fear any other issues being faught for our party will be then easily dismissed by association as "oh those Crazy Sheehan supporters are behind this too".

I agree this country is realizing they've been lied to. Their (Bush admins) repititious lies are starting to bite them in the ass. Everytime Bush affirms "we are winning in Iraq" the more people know and see he is full of sh*t, as of now he is his own worst enemy.

Lets no return him the favor by commiting the same mistake with the Sheehan media circus.

if she hadn't re-enlisted and changed her MOS, she'd probably be in Iraq right now. I don't consider Cindy Sheehan crazy, and if anything happens to my daughter due to this administration's lies, I'd be pulling a Cindy Sheehan big time. my daughter has told me she joined to protect the Constitution of the US, and I ask her what happens when it no longer exists? She's fighting to protect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights for you and me, not fight a war based on lies for Bush's oily greedy buddies. Most of those in the military BELIEVE in the Constitution, it's what makes America, America. Trample it, spit on it--we become any tin-pot dictatorship or as Barney says a "theocracy." And, you have to admit with the current cowardly, corporate media sycophants, any news is something. I mean a million people can march against the war and they will downplay it or not even report it. A dozen freepers march and their on it big time. Don't fool yourself, Cindy's not hurting nothing. You said it yourself, look what they did to Kerry? It doesn't matter, they're whores, they'll spin any and everything the Rovian way. If Jesus came back, they'd probably spin him as some Socialist, anti-war, America hating hippy liberal.

a "kleptocracy." Which means a "den of thieves."

"Don't fool yourself, Cindy's not hurting nothing. You said it yourself, look what they did to Kerry? It doesn't matter, they're whores, they'll spin any and everything the Rovian way. If Jesus came back, they'd probably spin him as some Socialist, anti-war, America hating hippy liberal."

We have stop believing that we we belive is understood and or must be believed by everyone. Thats kinda attitude is in my opinion whats hurting our image. We come across as arrogant, even if we dont mean to be.


Yes, they spin everything,and so do we, its part of the game we all know that we just have to beat them at it. I feel that many rational thinking left wingers think that truth, reason and facts is enough to convince peolpe. Thats not enough, look at the last 6 yrs.

IMHO Sheehan's image is smeared, like it or not, fairly or un-fairly, to those in center she is seen as typical war protester being used by the extreme left wing. They are not comfortable with that.

They want puppy dogs and ice cream and american pie, they dont like to be lied to as Bush poll numbers show, but they also dont like controversial war protesters.

I got worked up and mad about what happened to Cindy but I should get mad at injustice. It didn't interfere with my ability to do what I needed to do yesterday. As for the "face" of our party, I don't think Cindy or any other single person is the representative of the party. But we can't let down our side. Somebody has to have a conscience and say "Shame!" And we don't know what all non-DUers think when they see Cindy Sheehan. Give them something to think about!

assumption as to what all non-DUers feel or think about Sheehan, but from my experience people I interact with, even those who agree with her gripe seem tired of her and her message. Neo-cons know this, and try to link her to our endeavor/goals (social reform, respect for the constitution etc etc)

"Give them something to think about"

I agree to an extent, the other side of me knows that people don't want to constantly be reminded of true, real life sad events. IMHO, they need a small dose of the truth to put things in perspective but with a huge dose of puppy dogs ice cream apple pies and kick ass jets, hehe and there ain't nothing really wrong with puppy dogs and ice cream, specially when it can be used to get people to her and understand your message.

but we just have to find a way to do it. Sorry, I can't give up on something so important. I have to be able to express my outrage and the utter hypocrisy of the RW. It is just a "calling" in my life!

and let them answer that one.



Amendment I - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

Even I, a conservative, think she should not have been removed. However much I disagree with her opinion, she has the right to voice it.

version out before their facts were straight. Par for the course.

saying she tried to unfurl a banner.

It's 50:50 now, right down party lines, as usual.

It doesn't mean anything.

I support Cindy being removed from the hall until she changed her shirt, like Republican Congressman Young's wife. That's a far cry from arrest. They blatantly and purposely mishcharacterized the incident.

If they wanted to ask both questions - arrest or remove (or neither) - that's one thing. Or if they wanted to ask whether both Sheehan AND Young should have been removed, OK. But to focus on Cindy Sheehan and mischaracterize what happened to her as simply removal is just dishonest.

The actual act of arresting her was way over the line and frankly makes the police look like they're abusing their authority to enforce Republicanism. I believe that they wouldn't have arrested someone with a "Bush Rocks" T-shirt.

People chase around trying to "fix this poll" should tell you the stupidity of it all. I don't get it.

she is a nut glad they tossed her this was the state of the union.

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:sarcasm: so tell me, how many children have you lost in this war of lies? Or maybe, you've served and seen war up close and personal. Tell me what you think of Halliburton serving our soldiers spoiled food or bad water. I really want to know, since you think Cindy is such a "fruitcake." She said nothing during our "all glorious monarchs speech. NOTHING.... SHE WAS INVITED.

:hi:

The sooner we recognize that the Republic is in grave danger of being supplanted by tyranny, the sooner we can start dealing with Bush as the dictator that he is.

the vote would be considerably different.