Riddle me this. What is the difference between.....

What is the difference between these things folks on the right said to us:



What is the difference in what they said to us and what is being said to and about me now at this forum. Also being said locally by a peace activist group we left because they wanted to have pro-Chavez signs in a peaceful protest in a very fundamentalist area. We have protested the Iraq war weekly with this group for years. Why not stick to the war as subject?

How is this different from above? These are the things that have been said to and about me and others here who try to defend the party. When we try to say that Dean is trying to change the party infrastructure to get that change...these are only a few of the names.



Which is worse? Is it better to be accused of not supporting my country if the right does it or if the left does it?

Hope someone can help me figure out when it crosses the line of being overboard on either side. When did it become so unpopular to be a defender of trying to change the party from within? When did one side became just as critical of me and my husband as the other?

But I'm confused. What does the left have to do with the Democratic Party anymore?

That is what I wonder. Why should I feel better to be said to be hurting my country...if it is said by the left?

Who is going to speak up for them if they continue with the efforts to damage the party for revenge against a few Democrats?

Puzzles me. Why is it better to be accused of hurting my country if the left does than if the right does it.

Puzzles me.

We still hold our noses and vote for the Dem., even if the Dem. is a centrist, and you know that. Before election day, however, we try to do our best to be heard and make sure that the nominated Democrat will actually represent us if she or he is elected. That's not too much to ask, is it?

Forgive me if I over-reacted. A question like "Why doesn't the left stand with the party?" is rather aggressive.

-Laelth

I did not mean to be offensive. However I think I worded my questions fairly. The things said to me and my hubby from sides are pretty uncomfortable.

were aggressive, and unfair.

Please, see my post below. Peace.

:dem:

-Laelth

"the left", "the left", "the left" ...

there you go again ... the "left" is going to continue their efforts to damage the party for revenge ...

it is you who are damaging the Party ... when will you understand that?

do you think it is useful to disparage people on "the left" who think the party is damaging itself????

you make "the left" sound like some form of evil conspiracy ... it's disgraceful ...

yet another vacuous post from Madfloridian that fails to demonstrate any sense of reaching out to alienated voters ... just more "why are they all against me" gibberish ...

how dare you say "the left's" motivation is revenge ... what a incredibly counter-productive remark ... incredible ... yeah, MadFL, that's all these voters want to do ... they don't believe in anything ... they just want to get revenge and hurt Democrats ...

i'll try to explain it again realizing that you will never, ever understand ... the Democratic Party needs to do a better job reaching out to all constituencies ... we do this by making elected Democrats and other prominent Dems more available all over the country ... that's not happening ... do you hear calls from the Party to get elected Dems out into their districts more often? there's no dialog going on at all ...

and what's your answer to all this? blaming the left ... blaming the left ... blaming the left ... blaming the left ... blaming the left ... blaming the left ... blaming the left ... blaming the left ... blaming the left ... blaming the left ... blaming the left ... blaming the left ... blaming the left ... blaming the left ... blaming the left ... blaming the left ... blaming the left ... blaming the left ...

So I won't.

"it is you who are damaging the Party "

No, my post was not "vacuous" as you said.

So you made the point I was making. Should it hurt more being said from you, or being told by my neighbors that I hurt the country.

Both hurt.

i don't see you reaching out to the broader constituency Democrats need if we are to regain majority status ...

instead, your feelings are hurt ... DU becomes your very own therapy session ...

you are damaging the Party when you make asanine statements like "the left" is out for revenge ...

in almost every post you make, you start out insulting one group or another and claiming you're the wounded Party ... then when anyone criticizes you for the destruction you cause, you always say "see, i told you so ... you just proved my point" ...

it is the same pattern with you over and over and over and over and over ...

how about this for a refreshing idea: do you give a damn about winning as many votes as possible? if so, how do you think Democrats can win back voters who no longer believe in our message? surely you don't believe saying these voters are only out for revenge is going to help ...

I have quotes that have said they are withholding money from Dean at the DNC so the other Democrats will pay attention. I have quotes that say he sold them out when he went on to become chair. They are furious with some Democrats. So am I. We just intend to go about it in different ways.

My posts are about me because I am stating my feelings.

what exactly do you perceive the left to be? i wouldn't give Dean or the DNC a penny because they support candidates i strongly disagree with ... that's not REVENGE ...

i would rather support candidates i believe in ... i would prefer that they are Democrats ... but i will not hesitate to support progressives of any stripe if the Democrats put winning ahead of what i believe should be core Democratic values ... there's plenty of room in my positions for compromise; i don't see the Democratic Party making anyone any offers however ... if the Party remains out of touch and inaccessible, there will be no compromising ... all the Party is offering right now is a take it or leave it approach ... it's a very dangerous course to be following ...

and you still haven't answered my question ... instead of your endless bashing of the left and those who don't like Dean and those who will only support progressives and those who will not vote for war supporters and those who will not vote for an anti-choice (not just anti-abortion) candidates like Casey and on and on, what ideas do you (or Dean for that matter) have to win these voters back ????????????????????

bashing them is beyond moronic ... they believe what they believe ... the only way to win back these voters is to get face-to-face and discuss the issues ... that is NOT happening ... most senators (the House seems a little better) are almost never seen in their districts in free public forums ... that's not the way democracy should work and its not going to bring back alienated voters ...

instead of feeling so victimized and being so accusatory and divisive, you might think of a more constructive way to bring in more votes ... so yes, this thread is destructive to the Party because it attacks a group of potential constituents and proposes nothing constructive ...

of where it comes from on the ideological spectrum. Don't let the jerks get you down.
O8)

I am in the supposed "purist" camp, one of those who wants our elected democratic leaders to walk a little more lock-step with the base, one who believes the Democratic party needs to look unified and strong, and one who believes that the "race to the middle" strategy makes us look weak and unprincipled. In other words, I am the kind of person who "might" make the kinds of attacks leveled at you above. But I didn't because those attacks are just plain stupid.

I hate to call people names, and I hate to make unfounded accusations, but those folks who would make such inane attacks are probably ... (well, I can't say. It's against the rules to do so.)

... just my 2 cents. :patriot:

-Laelth


Edit:Laelth--corrected DU rule violation.

and I appreciate your kind words. In fact I would love to be on the more leftist side of things. But what I have seen has worried me.

The day that woman yelled at us in our home, a neighbor, I was showing her an email I got from the manager of the NBC affiliate in Tampa. I was so proud of it, as he had praised a letter I wrote and almost agreed that WFLA was spinning the war too much.

When she read the letter she went berserk. I never thought nor did I care about her church affiliation until then, but I found out later she belongs to a church which thinks God chooses our leader. She believes questioning them is a sin.

I have seen so many here with the goal of actually harming the party, though with motives that are not so bad. But sometimes motives don't matter when your country's future is at stake.

So I would like to be more on the liberal side, because that is my real nature. But the amount of condemnation of so many of our good Democrats makes me hesitate.

So I can not go there, as I see the dangers on both sides. We need each other too much, and working together we could accomplish a lot. One time at another board I wrote a very sincere piece about bullies on the right and on the left. I pointed out that whenever one of the Democrats..Dean, Kerry, anyone does something important....here comes the left immediately with criticism. It was not an ugly post, but some have never understood that.

I will still criticize the party when I think it is wrong, I will vote in the primary for the person I want. But I won't work against the party or do things to hurt it. Right now there is nothing to take its place.