Speaking Truth To Power is Not Grandstanding! Shame! Shame! Shame!

After six years of living under the rule of murderous thieves, thugs, liars, arrogant and incompetent fascist despots who have been occupying the white house and in control every single branch of our government; and after six long years of death destruction torture abuse and the complete decimation of our Bill of Rights, and a despot who thumbs his nose at our Constitution, uses it to wipe his ass, and after six long years of watching our party leaders cower and run for cover on every single issue of major significance, watching our party leaders acting like anything but the opposition party, we now have one brave courageous Senator willing to stand up to the Powers That Be, willing to speak truth to power, even at the risk of being Wellstoned, by the very powers this brave Senator is addressing, we now see and hear members of our party and their functionaries here on DU actually accusing this brave Senator, Senator Feingold of Wisconsin, of “Grandstanding” .

I am disgusted of the hypocrisy and depth of dishonesty required to promulgate such tripe.

Shame!! Shame!! Shame!!

An even better read the second time around. Glad you've given this its own thread.

:toast:

:cry: I am stunned and broken hearted at my fellow compatriots making a mockery of the few brave souls who dare to speak out...

the list is endless, Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan at the top of the list..

Let's not forget the recent rediculing of Coretta Scott King's memorial service and even Paul Wellstone's memorial service.

and then Cindy Sheehan...

there are more and there will be more rediculing of those who dare to speak out against people who speak for me and i would think speaks for most of us.. but it breaks my heart and it angers me beyond contempt everytime i see it here..

God knows we need more level heads speaking to the truth. Brilliance is appreciated.

level head is not exactly my bailywick, but when see perception manipulation operations from various camps, i'll do my best to join the voices in response, whenever i see it!

However, I'd feel a lot better if I knew Feingold wasn't running for President.

It would force his critics to address the issues he brought up, rather than giving them canned response.

what about Al Gore's recent remarks and speeches on the same subject? He claims he isn't running for president, but many would like him to and infact are organizing a "call Al Gore" for President campaign.

The point is, wouldn't you want to know that a potential candidate representing our views to have that level of courage?

would you rather have our next candidate be mealy mouthed, or silent on these very critical issues?

Cindy Shehan. These people are booger-eating morons.

Speakers at Coretta Scott King's Memorial and Paul Wellstone's Memorial service... it's unbelievable. really it is.

defend our freedoms, not castigate them. No one is perfect, but Feingold is damned good. Let us not parrot the Repuke spin about grandstanding.

by a guy whose presidential hopes were fading. Even Feingold didn't take it seriously enough to try and line up support in advance.

Shame, shame, shame.

;-)

It is not.

In the current climate, it is necessary to lay down markers, and create a buzz of discussion.

The purpose of the markers is two-fold.

First, on the subject of the N.S.A. operation revealed recently, it is undeniable something must be done. The action is a flat violation of the law; the current occupant of the Oval Ofice has publicly declared he ordered it done. This is a situation unique in the history of the Republic, that the current holder of the title of Chief Executive has stated publicly he has committed a felony. It is precisely the sort of crime of state, committed by the Executive wielding subordinates to its commission, the Founders had in mind when they included the remedy of impeachment. Some may well feel political expediency requires silence or inaction in the matter, but fealty to the Constitution, the touchstone of patriotism in our Republic since its foundation, dictates otherwise.

Second, it is imperative that the boundaries of political discussion be expanded, and expanded in a manner favorable to our side and our efforts. This cannot be done unless some persons of prominence get out ahead of the pack, and say with the full weight of their office and careers behind their voices, the things a great many people are saying at their kitchen tables already. It is true that some of those who do so will be assailed, even smeared, but that is the fate of the shock trooper in all places and times, and though their fates as individuals may be grim, they create the breach the rank and file may pile on through to break the enemy's line, and rout him.

"Where are the people? I must hurry there and lead them!"

(excerpt from jane hamsher over at the huffington post)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/no-surprise-poll-shows-_b_17477.html

There is not going to be an investigation, we know it, they know it and George Bush knows it. The Senate Intelligence Committee voted on March 7 not to investigate. Do they somehow think Arlen Specter is suddenly going to change his stripes? The censure resolution has been referred to the Judiciary Committee, which if the GOP holds true to form will probably mean they'll wind up investigating Feingold for treason.

In the mean time we're supposed to trust the Bush Administration that all of this warrentless spying is being handled judiciously and in the interest of fighting the war on terror (at least until people like Evan Bayh get their way and make everything George Bush wants to do legal).


link to details on what Evan Bayh is doing:

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2006_03_01_digbysblog_archive.html#114261902068754937

if a Republican breaks the law, then just change the law!

Is among my least favorite Democrats. About the best that can be said for him is that he is elected out of Indiana, and does not caucus with the Republicans.

There is, however, some sense in his comments, though not in the course he seems to be advocating here. The Democratic Party is in fact widely perceived as "soft" on national security, and if we allow this matter to be framed as "Democrats oppose spying on terrorists" it will back-fire badly. The proper line is to stress the open admission of breaking the law, a law that gives abundant authority to open investigations and acquire the warrant later, and to insist on the need to both uphold the Constitution and defend it and our people against foreign foes.

One of our members, Mr. ClassWarrior, phrased the matter extraordinarily well a couple of days ago, with the question, "Does the Senator support the censure, or breaking the law?" That is an excellent line for political agitation.

The beauty of truth, most of the time, is in it's simplicity.

in this case, the simpliticy of basic principles is all that needs to be said - people get it.. it's not complicated.

thanks again..

on Bayh, the thing of it is, i've heard terrific things about his father - i just wish he was a chip off the ole block on what I've heard and read..

Bayh has a way of just being on the wrong side of the issues, even when he's technically correct.. and that is so frustrating..

:shrug:

The times, and the pubic mood in that state, though, have changed for the worse in the last few decades.

in leadership. I am appalled that Bayh's son is not following in his fathers courageous footsteps.

"it is imperative that the boundaries of political discussion be expanded, and expanded in a manner favorable to our side and our efforts."

Exactly. Sadly, Mr Benchley echoes the "strategy" of the DLC, which we know all too well, advocates permitting the political discussion to continue to be moved by right wingers only and to move along the same trajectory that we have endured for 40 years - move it to the right, move it the right, always move it to the right.

From within this now extremely narrow sphere of allowed public political discussion, anyone who puts on the brakes and says "wait a minute here, let's take a look at the direction we are moving, fully discuss the ramifications and seriously consider changing course" is attacked, labeled "cheap" and is assumed to be cynically trying to shore up a flagging nascent presidential campaign! Shame, shame, shame is right.

Senator Feingold has done us a great service by enlarging the discussion and bringing renewed attention to Bush's law-breaking - as was pointed out by, not our friend, Willy Kristol yesterday to the head exploding dismay of Brit Hume who was trying to spout the RNC/DLC/Benchley/Bayh line.

from Magistrate and radio4pro. Wonderfull to read some intelligent thought. Wish we could hear more.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/03/19.html#a7577

(Click on above link for video links.)

Brit Hume's head explodes

Kristol defends Feingold

On FOX News Sunday, Bill Kristol (who I have no love for) defended Russ Feingold's censure resolution and called it a smart political move, one that defining the warrantless wiretapping illegal. Brit Hume wins the honorary "Rove/Mehlman award" for spewing out as much GOP talking points as is possible in the smallest allotted time.

Kristol: I think Feingold has succeeded in casting a big cloud over the President's program.

Wallace: Do you think it's helping Democrats and hurting Republicans?

Kristol: Absolutely, as long as the charge is out there and not rebutted?
A Democratic party that st

Remember what a tenuous grasp on reality Kristol has, to start with. He used to be Dan Quayle's chief of staff, which probably says it all....

out...is that those who are so quick to attack and condemn...seem to relish their venom....as if they get off on viscerating another human being.

it needs to be in bold text!

Osama turned me on to him....in one of his 'tapes' he recommended reading..."Rogue State". Lots of neat stuff on his site...and great quotes.

http://www.killinghope.org/

thanks for the link!

I go to places like this....
http://www.serendipity.li/_home.html
and am overwhelmed by the amount of material documenting the road we've traveled as a country that has lead to today.

just to repost a few:

George Orwell:

During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

Aldous Huxley: (Brave New World Revisited):

Big Government and Big Business ... will try to impose social and cultural uniformity upon adults and their children. To achieve this they will (unless prevented) make use of all the mind-manipulating techniques at their disposal and will not hesitate to reinforce these methods of non-rational persuasion by economic coercion and threats of physical violence. If this kind of tyranny is to be avoided, we must begin without delay to educate ourselves and our children for freedom and self-government. Such an education for freedom should be ... first of all in facts and in values — the facts of individual diversity and genetic uniqueness and the values of freedom, tolerance and mutual charity, which are the ethical corollaries of these facts.


Gore Vidal:

'Conspiracy stuff' is now shorthand for unspeakable truth

..."Humpty-Dumpty was pushed" ....
Conspiracies
"Anti-conspiracists insist that, unlike the rest of us, the rich
and powerful do not act with deliberate intent." Michael Parenti

In a roomful of smoking guns, they demand a smoking cannon.

The well-known term "conspiracy" may not actually serve us very
well, since it suggests an arcane aberration rather than the
normal workings of our ruling class.

The trivialization of conspiracism may itself be a conspiracy.

Humpty-Dumpty was pushed.

With the JFK assassination we gave up part of our democracy and
we're not going to get it back unless we find out who did it.
Prof. Peter Dale Scott sees the JFK assassination as an "internal
adjustment".
http://www.killinghope.org/

when someone in the liberal party decides to stand up and speak out and be a voice for us people find it wrong, like we should keep our mouthes shut? The people that complain that the libs won't stand up are the same people that complain when they do. Thanks radio4progressives.

No Surprise: Poll Shows Feingold's Popularity Soaring

Jane Hamsher

The response of the Senate Democrats to the Feingold censure resolution aptly demonstrates how thoroughly disconnected they are from the strong feelings in the netroots community about the illegal NSA wireteps. They seem to have no concept of stepping into a leadership position and channeling that emotion into positive action. So let me speak in a language that even the dullest, the most remedial, most thick-witted Democratic consultant can understand.

(snip)

cont...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/no-surprise-poll-shows-_b_17477.html

Grandstanding isn't about NOT speaking out, it's about the desire to STAND OUT, without regard for accomplishing anything.

Feingold (whom I adore) should have brought his collegues together on censure b4 he attempted to speak "truth to power."

"colleagues" have long known exactly where he stands on civil liberties and the law-breaking president. He is neither a waffler nor a weasler. He has always been candid and forthright about what he thinks. This - "oh he should have tried to get us on board first" is a crock. He already knew they are chickenshits and would not do one damn thing to stop Bush.

He had a bi-partisan group together on the Intel Committee working with him toward an investigation until the WH hauled Hagel's and Snowe's butts over there and brow beat them into submission so there would be NO investigation. The Dems know very well there will be NO investigation, yet they are yammering on and on about investigating to this day. That is just a cover for their cowardice. Oh well, "we tried to get an investigation going but the Repukes wouldn't let us." They must think we are idiots.

You don't know any better than I do that the Senator did or did not speak to any other Dem Senators prior to moving for censure. It is highly likely he did speak with at least some of them. After witnessing how the Dems have failed and failed and failed - time and time and time again to move to stop the law breaking BushCo, I wouldn't be surprised that any he did speak to about proposing censure pissed in their pants from fear right on the spot.

They are wimps! No amount of cajoling them to take a stand would have done any good at all. They have been caving on everything since 1994 and Feingold knows this better then we do. So it really doesn't matter whether he spoke with them or not.

As little Willy 'Shadow Emperor' Kristol admitted to yesterday - it was a smart move on Feingold's part! He got the discussion going again and has succeeded in putting a big cloud over the criminals in the WH. That, my dear, is an accomplishment! So stop with the woulda shoulda coulda. It is depressing.

seriously advancing an agenda calling for censure vs. blathering about it to no avail.

I'm glad he got discussion going, but I'd rather he did so with a group of his fellow senators. I am not dismissing his actions outright, I'm saying (as far as I can tell) his goal WAS discussion, not actually censuring *.

pointed out up thread, we need to enlarge the parameters of political discussion such that what we talk about here and around the "kitchen table" is discussed openly and broadly among people who vote.

I would also rather that "a group of his fellow senators" had joined him, but his colleagues behavior over the past 12 years has been a clear demonstration that "ain't gonna' happen." Had Senator Feingold waited for a few others to be willing to do this - well - he would have to wait until the proverbial hell freezes over for those lily livers. I blame them for their cowardice, not Feingold for his guts.

This is how discussion is moved, by some gutsy straight talking person just putting it out there. Yes, it makes the others look bad - but that is their own damn fault. What you and the Senators should be doing is thanking him - not bashing him. He succeeded in re-opening the discussion. That is certainly not "blathering to no avail."

A person who is blathering to no avail is Evan Bayh! Re-writing the FISA law to try - unconstitutionally - to cover Bush's ass accomplishes what??

Feingold isn't in elected office to "discuss" the state of affairs, he's there to act.

:shrug:

sincere. It seems more about dialog than censuring Bush is all I'm saying.

Even though he didn't say that directly in his statement, he framed it like he wants to "talk about it" but i took that to be a tactical play
to avoid fueling the already existing paranoia with the repukes (because there's a lot for them to be paranoid about after all).

Feingold wants this domestic spying to stop now.

Which can happen when Democrats control Congress. This Censure has little or no chance of being passed by a Republican-controlled Congress. So the idea that this will cause Bush to cease and desist is implying that some Republicans will vote with the Democrats.

If it doesn't pass, Bush isn't censured. Democrats will support censure, but there is no use pretending that Deomcratic support alone can result in censure.

It's a nice fantasy to think that this administration will Cease and Desist, or that enough Senators of either party will push this to the fore, or even pass such a measure! (wow!)

No.. it isn't going to happen..

The only hopeful outcome i dare to entertain, is that the issue and the details will be reported and amplified in the media for the benefit of the american pulbic's information - why this important, why this is critical.

and why it matters.

will this president be held accountable? unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be the case..

my fear is, that this will all go away in lieu of the "prospects" of a Democratically controlled governement vis a vis Congress and the WH.

but we are delluding ourselves to place our hopes for accountability with this outcome.

It will not happen with or without a Democratic party victory, unfortunately.

Founders to be primarily the DELIBERATIVE body. How are they going to deliberate anything unless someone puts something out there on the floor to be deliberated?

That IS action. And is is action taken, knowing in advance, that the repukes and media and, many Dems as well, would take the swift boat approach i.e. - high potential for political suicide. If that isn't a demonstration of "sincerity", I don't what is.

If you "adore" Feingold as you say - you can stop bashing him now. It is not helping. Bash Bayh - he deserves it.

and as a Senator I expect he understands the process?

I'd rather actually censure Bush than "deliberate" on it. I will say that I hope something comes of his resolution.

It is not Feingold's doing that most of the other 43 have their heads up their butts. Dayton has never done diddly squat for us. I care not what he says most of the time - but it was infuriating that he bashed Feingold especially because Dayton is not even going to run this year! Wimp that he is.

appeared on MTP. And re: Dayton never did anything for "us" I live in Minnesota and I'd beg to differ.

Also, you should be aware that Feingold has at least two co-sponsors for his censure rez so update that 'heads up the ass' figure.

experiencing here, is that Domestic Spying is not viewed as damaging to the basic tenets of our Constitution and the Bill of Rights, or that it just isn't all that important.

My sense is that some folks just don't see what all the fuss is all about, it's all a tempest in a teapot, much to do about nothing..

Wonder what folks would think if they understood that Domestic Spying programs doesn't just let you listen in on that dead man's (Osama bin Laden) conversations with speed freaks and lunatics, but that it allows the Bush Co and the Repukes to read emails, text msgs, listen in on conversations of their "political enemies" - by definition that means the Democratic Party leadership, strategists, campaign managers, staffers and everyone's families and friends.

Now, if the principles of the Bill of Rights isn't all that important to some of you.. maybe the notion that we are coming up to mid-term elections and how these Domestic Spying programs just might impact the elections campaign to the advantage of Repukes might mean something to ya?

:shrug:

the constitution, and as such should be held accountable, a less haphazard approach should have been taken. This is not about simply "speaking" - it's about acting.

that's what the Resolution to Censure is... an action to stop this president from continuing these programs and a mandate to cease and desist in the most immediate terms..

Let's hope it's productive in the end - regardless of the road taken.

I think on that we can agree?

I agree to hope that it will be productive.. I'm pessimistic that it will be ..

because frankly, as much as I admire Feingold for doing something on this level - i think it's too late - and i think we have much darker days ahead. It's too late to have meaningful impeachment (that needed to be started in 2004/2005) and the domestic spying programs have been operative since before 9/11 - apparently they started this the moment they took office in Jan. 2001.

I fear that we think that elections are going to change everything and that isn't the case either, too many Dems in Washington apparently are fairly satisfied with things like Domestic Spying, the phony Un-Patriot Act, and so on..

We wouldn't even be having this exchange on whether or not Feingold did was out of line if the Dems had all gotten behind him.

The question is why didn't they?

Because they (Washington Democrats) also in favor of the Domestic Spying programs.

That's the issue I have with Feingold. Also I resent the assertion that Democrats are oK with domestic spying - I've seen no evidence of that.

bring together our yellow backed, lilly livered congress critters on board, eh?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

in the next ice age... maybe..

before announcing IMHO.

and almost that long since the so called investigations that were supposed to be conducted right away, shut down by Roberts et al..

so, maybe we should have waited until after we take our chances with the mid-term elections...

:hi:

if nothing else is more evident, these Politicians have done nothing but IGNORED these calls for action for six years.

approach them.

he wanted to do something dramatic to get attention for the issue, and he was probably correct to propose during a TV appearance. That still doesn't preclude him from discussing it with the other senators who were already questioning NSA spying themselves.

It's also not wrong to wish that Feingold had not decided AFTER he submitted his resolution to go to the press and SELL the censure as an alternative to impeachment. NO Senator should pre-judge impeachment, especially an impeachment that is GATHERING strength in the house.

I want censure. I do not agree that censure should RESOLVE the matter of Bush's accountability, as Feingold stated in his press conference. I'm surprised AND disappointed that many of you who claimed you supported impeachment for so long, are willing to accept censure as an alternative just because Feingold decided to SELL it that way.

Seems to me his censure case was strong enough.

I might be reading too much between the lines... my political radar and intuition says that Feingold was trying avoid political blow back by being careful with his wording, and his emphasis, by trying not to put things too directly. For a Senator he's pretty direct, but in this case I honestly believe that he tried to use a bit of brevity considering how grave this issue could be, if passed.

attack other Dem lawmakers for doing the same. See where the disconnect leads us? How true is it for ANYONE to declare one lawmaker is being straighter than another and then turn around and note that he, too, couches his rhetoric in safe language when it suits his strategy.

Supporting the SELLING of censure as an ALTERNATIVE to impeachment should be.

But it sounds so dramatic, so David vs. Goliath.

These days, it means "saying what you and your political allies believe and being mostly ignored in the process."

not ignored..

As for being a worn out cliche, as long as "we the people" remain enslaved by the ruling class, as we are now and have been through out the history of "civilization", it will continue to have meaning and significance to the most disenfranchised..

the battle of David vs Goliath still holds significant imagery of over coming the powers that be...