McKinney was wrong! Why are we defending her?

Sure, the Capitol Police officer should have recognized her, but he didn't. So when she skirted the metal detector, he asked her to stop. When she didn't, he put his hand on her shoulder.

These guys are there to protect the Capitol - and the Members, including her, who are the biggest potential targets. He was doing his job. He didn't stop her because she's Black. He didn't stop her because she's female. He didn't stop her because she's liberal. He stoped her because he thought she was a civilian who was about to enter the Capitol without going through the metal detector.

She's not the only Member who's gone unrecognized. In fact, I've seen it happen to White Congressmen and Senators, as well. The appropriate response in such circumstances would have been to simply identify herself as a Member of Congress. She would have gotten an apology and gone on her way. Instead, she hits the officer? But even then, she could have apologized to him afterward - said that she overreacted, which is understandable given the way that Blacks often get treated, but that she should not have hit him. That would have been the end of it.

Now she accuses the officer of racism and turns this into a federal case. As a Black woman, I resent it. This sort of thing happens all the time to Black folk. If we hauled off and hit everyone who we think should recognize us or show more respect for our position in society, we'd be fighting all the time.

She was just plain wrong.

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ness on DU, and people are going to want to hear what you have to say.

So, did her hair really look that bad?

since apparently he/she was an eyewitness to the incident.

no harm , no foul... They will do anything to keep a sister down. They framed her.

happened. If it gets to trial we must hope that justice gets served. And at this point, at least in my mind, I can't know what justice means.

teacher that was beaten to a pulp on camera? How can you say 'Wait for the videro' Videos "don't show the whole story" when African-Americans or Hispanics are being filmed. :sarcasm:

The more I hear about it, the more I think she made a mistake. The more she fights it, the more the Rethugs can make it an issue. McKinney should just come clean and apologize and take the consequences.

We'll know what happened for real when the trial is decided.

McKinney is disliked for her unpopular opinions about a number of issues that many hold dear.

Thus any chink in armor is hammered away at until folks get themselves in a tizzy.

My response to those who wish to dogpile on McKinney crying "foul" in faux horror:

Shenanigans! Bullshit!! For shame. Go back under your rocks.

I'm calling folks on this.

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fall all over themselves taking up the cause of ANY black person who screams racism, regardless how ridiculous the claim. Every black person who alleges foul treatment is not a hero. Sometimes they're misguided. Sometimes they're demagogues. Sometimes they're just nuts.

Funny how no one seems to have noticed the deafening silence from her colleagues in the Congressional Black Caucus and the civil rights community.

I guess all of those folks - John Conyers, John Lewis, Sheila Jackson-Lee, etc. - are really just a bunch of Uncle Toms who don't have the courage to fight the man the way Cynthia does.

You should be ashamed for giving your permission for this bad behavior.

Why don't you turn your fake outrage at a real cause?

you made your view on McKinney clear in another post.

McKinney was instrumental in calling the Bush regime for what it is and I think we need her in Congress.
If you want to be dishonest and call my concerns "fake" go ahead but it make you nothing but dishonest.

And this has nothing to do with her politics, buddy.

Nice try.

You are engaging in a smear campaign because you don't like her politics.

on the woman's politics is equally wrong.

She's not accused of assaulting the cop with her beliefs, after all.

The OP posted that she is wrong, I am saying I will support her and have no reason to engage in this bullshit lynching that you want. You don't even know what happened.

You don't know the facts and you are making judgements. I am not.

You see I haven't made any assumption of guilt or innocence. YOU HAVE.

You invoked Ms. Kinney's politics in a discussion when I was discussing the facts of the case as we know them.

She's not accused of assaulting the cop with her beliefs, after all.

Try to keep up.

Read this very slowly.

She is an asset to the country and I have no reason not to support her. You are engaging in a witch hunt for your own reasons that have nothing to do with the case at hand. I will not engage in that type of behavior and based on her past record I have every reason to come to her side to defend her from your attacks. As far as the current case I am not going to say she was right or wrong until the facts come out. Until then I will come to her side and stop these attacks by people like you who have an agenda. You are the one engaging in the judgment without facts and you are doing it for ideological reasons. I am defending her from your attacks because I support her and all of her past efforts of speaking truth to power. I am not making a judgment regarding this incident however.

Now go back and read that again until you understand it.

Now go back and read it one more time because you have displayed a serious lack of comprehension skills.

You've gone around the bend on this one, bud. Careful, your head might explode.

Her record and your emotional bond are irrelevant.

The facts are relevant, however, and just as Republicans consider the truth an attack, so do you.

Muster some integrity and quit making excuses.

Peace out.

You go around trashing her because you think she slighted Al Gore somehow (who I happen to like as well) and then you try to project your failings on me. Talk about insane.

Get it? No? That's your problem.

post number 15

and yet as we have pointed out, You don't know.

Got anything better?

more...
http://GlobalFreePress.com

peace

Why would she do something so nice for those twits?
:evilgrin:

spoke out in defense of Ms. McKinney. There is a link downthread.

I have to say you make a good point with that argument.

hypothesis (or IMHO a more compelling one) is that Conyers et al. do not feel that they have the information necessary to determine what is right and wrong in this incident. That point of view is shared by many here at DU.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/04/04/1419259

AMY GOODMAN: Your response, Congressmember Jackson Lee, to what has happened to her?

REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE: First of all, I think all of us, including Congresswoman McKinney, respects the Capitol police and respects them for their responsibility and their job. But I believe that she is quite accurate in the fact that there are very few of us who happen to be African American women, and there are very few of us who would be so, if you will, difficult to be remembered, if you will, or to be able to be noticed. And frankly, many of us get either confused or asked for our I.D. or treated in a manner that is not necessarily accepting. And in this incident it was unfortunate. But it is the role of the Capitol police, of whom we respect, to basically know the members of the United States Congress. And if you are rushing toward a vote, a House vote -- and I think people should understand we have 15 minutes to cast a vote no matter where you might be in the entire capital of Washington, D.C. You might be in meetings off the Hill. You still have 15 minutes to vote. It's very difficult then to be stopped, while the clock is ticking, for to you cast your vote.

So I think this is a question, first of all, where it should be resolved away from the cameras. I certainly don't think an arrest warrant is appropriate. I hope that the arrest warrant is not issued so that there can be an issue on the Democratic side of the aisle, while there is an issue now with Tom DeLay on the Republican side of the aisle. And I hope that this can be resolved, respecting the Capitol police, respecting Congresswoman McKinney, who serves well in the United States Congress and serves her constituents. And most of all, I hope that we can reconcile this issue, so that we can continue our work. I think it's an issue that clearly has the opportunity to be reconciled outside the legal process and that any difficulty in identification can be solved in an administrative manner

AMY GOODMAN: Has this ever happened to you, where you were not recognized?

snip

If something other than what is described happened she ought to say it, just that, and take it to court. Nothing good is coming out of a verbal war over the incident. If she hit the cop, then she ought to offer to pay a fine to put the matter to rest. This is a big unwelcome distraction.

be freepers..there is so much more to worry about, war and etc. but if your thing is gossip, how about the Delay story, or Fitz's on going investigation..plese enough of these McKinney posts until we know what is up...

to one big forum. Otherwise, the issue is causing too much bickering.

a lot of this is started by freepers...

asking them to "forum" the McKinney topic. Hopefully, they'll agree.

admin@democraticunderground.com

:eyes:

Doesn't he know she speak truth to power. I'd have hit him with my cellphone too.

You don't know if she did, or did not, "simply stroll past" as you were not there.

She is presumed innocent until proven guilty. But then, so is the cop.

And everyone knows that women are physically so much stronger than men.

Cop or Congresswoman.

But, as usual, the crusaders here at DU upwind of a new cause based on an allegation BTW made by someone who called Al Gore a racist (thanks LittleClarkie) pull out their fake outrage and they're off.

It's really quite simple. Ms. McKinney was asked to stop because she was not wearing the proper ID, and she didn't. Whether or not she should have been recognized and what the exact nature of the physical contact with the guard was is moot; she was wrong, possibly unlawfully so.

And for people on this side of the fence to give her absolution for that is flat-out wrong and paints our side as big hypocrites.

of McKinney?

there is clearly a paucity of insight here at DU

and that is dictating your position.

But since you seem to be an expert, could you tell me the results of my Pap smear?

else!!

I support her efforts to speak truth to power and I have every reason to come to her aid.

If you don't like it, that is your problem.

I see no hypocrisy in that.

but she isn't accused of assaulting the cop with the truth, is she?

They are two different things.

Are you presuming her innocent based on LIKING her politics? Isn't that equally as wrong?

The OP acted as judge and jury without even knowing the facts.

All I have said is that I will stand by her without making any judgments until all the facts come out.

Read the thread please.

The fur is flying fast and furious. Sorry if I misinterpreted.

denied whacking the cop!

where Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee reports that members of Congress are not required to wear ID/Congressional pins when entering their building?

"There is no requirement, by the way, for any member to have an I.D. We do have them. But we may have been rushing from somewhere and not carrying the I.D., and there is no requirement for us to have a pin, which is our identifying pin, which I happen to be wearing at this time. But there is no requirement, as I understand it, for members to have that at this time. "

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/04/04/1419259

if they don't recognize the people. That's their job.

But they also shouldn't be surprised if they go unrecognized without them.

Several members don't wear their pins for various reasons. John Edwards never wore his pin - he wore his late son's Outward Bound pin instead. As a result, he often got stopped by Capitol Police when he skirted the metal detectors. He just identified himself as a Senator, the officer apologized, and he went on his way.

The issue is not whether she was wearing her pin or not. The issue is whether she should have flown off the handle when she was stopped by an officer who believed that she was a non-Member going around the metal detectors.

However, you are right. When asked to stop, she should have stopped. Period.

but when they don't, they ARE expected to go through the magnetometers. You gotta do one or the other. It's not that big an imposition to go through a metal detector, especially when it's there to protect you and your staff. A congresswoman should understand this.

Why do you believe the pukes and the cops and not her?

1) Protocol says they must wear the identifying ID pins; Ms. McKinney admits she REFUSES to wear it. Her crusade is somehow wrapped up in the notion that she MUST be identified. That statistically isn't possible.

2) She has had four prior "incidents" just like this as a result of #1. Why? Most people would submit to the security rules especially after 9/11, but she refuses.

3) When asked to stop, she refused and kept walking. She was wrong right there. If anyone of us had done that, we would have been arrested. There was physical contact. Unfortunately for her he was entitled; she was not.

(Did it occur to anyone that the guard was just doing his job guarding the Capital Building? It's not like he's a rent-a-cop at Wal*Mart.)

Thank you, Mr. Hastert.

look at the facts, ones that Ms. Kinney admits to, of this case and make an informed decision.

Ms. Kinney admitted the wrongdoing, she doesn't think she's wrong.

Breaking the law is wrong, period.

And for chrissakes, this whole topic is such bullshit.

Did ya hear, TOM DELAY RESIGNED!!!!!

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

Good Luck with your campaign!

Al Gore submitted to airport searches without snivelling.

Is there a reason you would excuse ANYONE from not following security measures particularly after 9/11?

If Democrats want to be taken seriously about national security, this is the very least they can do.

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Edwards during the campaign.

My emphasis would be on someone like Tom Delay personally. I guess it's just a matter of where a persons priorities lay.

I think Faux and the Repukes are doing a good job on this one. I see no reason to help them. That's there job.

I see no reason for self mutulation.

Just a little reminder to folks of the original AP story that came out about the incident:


Ga. Congresswoman in Scuffle With Police
Mar 29 11:35 PM US/Eastern
By LAURIE KELLMAN
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON

Rep. Cynthia McKinney and a police officer scuffled Wednesday after the Georgia Democrat entered a House office building unrecognized and refused to stop when asked, according to U.S. Capitol Police.

McKinney, a sixth-term congresswoman who represents suburban Atlanta, struck the officer according to one account, a police official said, adding there were conflicting accounts. The officer, who was not authorized to speak publicly about the incident, spoke only on condition of anonymity.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/03/29/D8GLM0H8E.html

Please note the following:

There are conflicting reports on what happened.
One account claims she "struck" an officer. (not "punched", not "slapped")
The officer who spoke about the incident was unauthorized to do so.

There's still a lot to find out about just what happened. Anyone -- including DUers -- who rush to condemn Ms. McKinney without knowing the full story should be ashamed of themselves.

A mistake may have been made, but you don't know that. So why don't you just wait until all the facts are out? Instead of pretending you know the WHOLE story!

Do you have all the Facts? No one else seems to, so please present the ACTUAL FACTS of the case all out for us to examine, and then present your argument.

But until you have all the facts, you don't know what happened unless you were there, you don't have a case to make these assertions, that McKinney is Guilty of any crime.

i know things have changed in our constitution, that people are innocent until proven guilty - but in the case of our Racists history, it's often the reverse - Guilty until Proven Innocent.

Since that's the case, I guess we should just all shut up any criticism of or speculation about the dirty deeds of Delay and Bush and Cheney and Abramoff, et al since, after all, none of them have been convicted of any crime in a court of law.

Why should we partake in it?

and if you had any clue about our history, the pain and horror that lynching inflicted on an entire race, you wouldn't make such an ignorant comment.

Criticizing a black Congresswoman who failed to identify herself as such for an altercation with a cop after he stopped her from trying to go into the Capitol without undergoing the same security measures that every single non-Member of Congress must go through is NOT a lynching!

You wouldn't be making judgements on a case in which you know absolutely nothing about.

than most folks in here, thank you.

And that's why I know that, DU not being a court of law, we are all perfectly within our rights to express opinions about any manner of topics and are not bound by any constitutional restrictions of "innocent until proven guilty," which, for some people, apparently applies only when one of their heroes is being criticized.

Unless you are going to pipe up whenever a DUer criticizes Bush or Cheney or Delay or Rumsfeld or anyone else on the other side since, accusing them of wrongdoing constitutes a violation of their right to be deemed innocenet until proven guilty.

Give me a break.

Give me one good reason. Is my speaking up preventing you from talking trash? Obviously not.

Cynthia McKinney is a member of the US Congress, for god's sake. She is not a victim. She doesn't even play one well on TV.

Capitol police work FOR Congress, to protect them. Congressmen and women can help, by following the structures put in place for security, like wearing your stupid little pin. Even if he should have recognized her and made a mistake, what a needless, stupid, overreaction this is. IMO McKinney is being a bully here.

Your comparison of this officer's asking for ID to the torturing, maiming, and murdering of blacks by POLICE in the history of this country is not just ignorant. It is moronic.

Have all the fun you want with the self-righteous victimspeak here at DU. But the truth is that there is NO WAY she wins this one in the court of public opinion or common sense, if she keeps this up. Pelosi is right. The members of the Black Caucus who are remaining silent are right. She is making a huge mistake.

Take a step back. All stories including news stories are fiction. What makes one fiction more believable than another?

1. Repetition. If the MSM plays it over and over again, it begins to acquire authenticity. But someone somwhere had to make the decision to start repeating it.

2. Prejudice. I mean this in the sense of it comforms with our preconceived ideas. We believe that McKinney is a fighter who would not accept a racist insult. We believe that cops are generally racists. We put those two beliefs together and it very easy to accept the scenerio---racist cop oversteps the line, McKinney overresponds to his provocation. I saw Keith Olberman bite the worm on the hook the night they dangled this baby for him, when the story was completely new and uncooberated, based on the mere fact that it SOUNDED plausible.

3. Video or photo evidence is generally offered right away to prove that a modern fiction is a true story. Who would have believed that a cop would shoot an Iraq veteran if we had not seen it for ourselves. Therefore, when video evidence is NOT being offered, this ought to raise red flags. Is the video being suppressed to mask the officer's ID? Because the visual impression of the conflict would diminish its seriousness? Maybe the flow of traffic around them did not even pause. Maybe she is the one that staggered from the contact, not him.

4. Eyewitness. This is where the story really falls apart. This is supposed to be a crazed Black woman attacking a poor police officer with her cell phones. Where the hell are the witnesses? Why havent they rushed forward to the media to give their accounts of what happened? Could it be that NO ONE NOTICED ANYTHING? How is this possible if she was acting like such a menace to society?

Anyway, I havent heard or seen anything that makes me think that this is anything other than a work of short fiction being staged for the public. Of course, I write fiction, so maybe that it why I smell a rat here.

but then so is the cop.

I do resent that folks are assuming because she:

is black
is a woman
says things that they want to hear

that this means that she is innocent, or that the cop was racist.

She is neither innocent nor guilty until proven so in a court of law.

But I'll be damned if I'll presume she's innocent and the cop's guilty based merely on the above three statements.

And if it's true that she accused Al Gore of being racist, then she may pull that card out just a tad too much.

But that's just my take.

Lack of common sense .

Take a kids doll because it has a small gun with it because they are going to be flying .

Make a mother drink her own breast milk before getting on a plane .

Law enforcement with out common sense is fascism.

Plain and simple, thats why .

This arrest shows a lack of common sense, plain and simple.

The only exception is Members of Congress. In order to faciliate their ability to get in and out of buildings quickly, onto the House/Senate floor, etc., they wear a pin that identifies them as Members to Capitol Police. If a Member is not wearing their pin and the officer on duty doesn't recognize them as a Member, the officer is duty bound to stop them from entering.

A police officer who does not recognize Cynthia McKinney is not, by definition, a racist. He was just doing his job.

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You guys are the ones with the enemies lists and the screaming for purges....

Of course, the left-wing have never forgiven the cops for bashing their heads in back in '68 (although personally, I've never forgiven the left-wing for showing up in Chicago).

And then there's the racial thing. Let's be honest, if Jerry Nadler were stopped by a Capitol Hill cop, I doubt anyone around here would give a damn. Hell, I suspect most DU'ers don't even know who the hell Nadler is. Because McKinney's a black woman, everyone around here assumes that anytime something like this happens, it's because of the racism and sexism that permeates society. What a crock. If a Republican did half the things McKinney's done, people around here would be calling for their resignation.

Oh, maybe it's because she "speaks truth to power." Yeah, right. I suppose the next time a public official gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar, all they have to due is spew out some left-wing rant and all will be forgiven.

You don't like her because she is not a DLC corporate stooge.

McKinney was asked to stop. She refused to stop. And then she hit the cop when he grabbed her arm.

If she was wearing her lapel pin identifying her as a member of Congress, I could understand her being annoyed. But I was brought up to believe that it's not appropriate behavior to hit a cop. Indeed, it's against the law. Sorry, but I can't defend criminal behavior. And the fact that so many people around here are willing to defend criminal behavior simply beacuse she's either (a) a black woman, (b) a left-wing crank or (c) both . . . well, that kind of thinking makes me ill.

unlike you and the lynch mob.

as far as the rest of the horseshit that is coming out of your mouth, I'll leave that steaming pile to you to deal with.

You wouldn't have any problem with anything I've said unless you've made a judgement that her behavior was defensible. I see nothing defensible about it. Does that mean she deserved to be thrown in jail? Frankly, if she simply apologized to the cap, I'm sure that charges wouldn't be pressed. But instead, she's playing the race card -- again. This is the same kind of bevhavior that led her constituents to vote her out of office a few years ago.

I personally think there is probably an effort to drive her from congress.

In particular, NOBODY is disputing that McKinney bypassed the metal detector, and that she failed to stop when asked, and that she hit the cop. McKinney hasn't denied any of this. Her "defense" is that she never should have been stopped because it's the cop's fault for not recognizing her. Sorry, but even if the cop should have recognized her, she still needed to stop, and she still shouldn't have hit the cop. If she had any sense whatsoever, she'd have stopped, shown her I.D., walked on, and then blasted the cops later at a press conference. And least then she wouldn't have to worry about an arrest warrant.

<<I personally think there is probably an effort to drive her from congress.>>

Hah! Talking about PREJUDGING!!

Actually, the truth is that the last thing the Republicans want is to drive McKinney from office. She's the gift that keeps on giving.

i.e. you are talking out of your ass.

Which puts your entire argument into perspective.

But the bashing of us so called left wingers was less than awe inspiring. Like it or not, you need us. You don't have to like us, but it's wise to stop bashing our populist beliefs. We are part of the party too - we belong and we have compromised with the DLCers Ad Nausea.

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002650.htm

peace

Why aren't you in Iraq then fighting for Fearless Leader and AIPAC?

but neither will I attack her until I know what happened.
All I can say is this is not endearing her with "middle America", in an election year. Hope she has the support she needs in Georgia.

I honestly (no bunk) feel a groundswell of support from her liberal supporters. This will blow up in Rove Co's faces IF the DLCers could just kindly step out of way? You don't have to agree with us, but McKinney is the best thing going for the working class and poor. Please, for once, stay mum on with regard to commenting on your liberal colleagues in public? :hi:

?

Folks, it's just an opinion; this person wasn't there, and doesn't have any more of a clue than most people.

Let it go.

NT

NT

Seriously, would you put up with any of her crap if she weren't a left wingnut?

I think her behavior was just plain wrong. And I'd say the same if she were a liberal, moderate, conservative or right wingnut.

While it's too early for me to go against her without knowing all the facts, I'm not going to stand up for her just because of her claims of being profiled. Yeah, maybe the cop should have recognized her, and maybe he didn't because of a tendency of some who look at other races as "all looking the same", but that doesn't give her the right to hit, if she did, the officer. If everyone who felt they were wronged by the police were allowed to behave like McKinney, we'd have lawlessness.

What she should have done, if she felt she was being profiled, was use the opportunity to express that in a way the rest of us unelected citizens could not, by speaking out on the House floor about it.

What she has done, to immediately play the race card, while not denying she struck the officer, was unfortunate. After the fact, she could have turned the heat way down on this by simply saying that in frustration of being profiled, she acted in a way that is unbecoming of a Congresswoman, and apologize for her actions. Instead, she's pointing fingers alleging racism and accepting no blame.

to help the security to identify them.

God knows there are enough in the House alone to keep track of.

I'm not going to say she was wrong, or that she was right.

I'm not going to defend her. I'm not going to refuse to defend her.

She's innocent til proven guilty. That is all.

And so is the cop.

The bottom line is -- even if McKinney believed she was singled out because of her race, that didn't give her any right to refuse the officer's request that she stop or to hit the officer. Unfortunately, McKinney's behavior is only going to make the public more likely to dismiss accusations of racial profiling in the future.

Seriously. it's simply irrational to slug a police officer for doing his job. Had she calmly identified herself this would not have happened. I expect more dignified behavior from our Dem reps.

Back in 92, I was a Clinton campaign volunteer working at a breakfast fundraiser featuring Hillary at the NY Sheraton... I was appointed as the VIP area 'bouncer': I had to stop people from entering unless they had a VIP pass or IDes themselves appropriately. It was very funny, but I didn't recognize then-mayor Dinkins wife-- nor did I recognize the Gov's wife, Matilda Cuomo! I stopped them both, and asked them to ID themselves-- I think they must have figured I would have recognized them! They were very gracious and smiled. Neither lady slugged me. And that was in a more innocent time... way before 9-11 and terra terra terra 'round the clock.

I admire much of what she has spoken up for, but such behavior is an absurd distraction. And the GOP are going to milk this to death, to distract from their plethora of scandals. What a waste of everybody's time.

As somebody whose family was a victim of real police abuse of power, this stuff
is offensive to me.