Democrats court Muslim votes; Dean may be the Muslim favorite

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3541026&thesection=news&thesubsection=world&thesecondsubsection=


<A straw poll among the 800 MPAC delegates showed more than 67 per cent planned to vote for Dean, compared to just 2 per cent for Bush. Upon hearing the poll results, one delegate said, "How did Bush manage to get 2 per cent?" >

<Aslam Abdullah, an activist and head of the Muslim Electorates' Council of America, said his surveys in seven key states showed two-thirds of 1.7 million Muslim voters backed Bush in 2000.>


<He said the size of the Muslim electorate had now jumped to almost 3 million, thanks to massive voter registration drives, a large number of new citizens and an increase in Muslim-Americans who have reached the voting age of 18>

Thanks!

...Muslims in the U.S., though I can't recall exactly where I heard that. I think Bush did well with them in 2000, too.

Due to a large chunk of them being immigrants and Muslims being a relatively young group. According to this 3 million are part of the electorate; how many people are part of the total American electorate?

Muslims are a well-educated group so their voter turnout will be high and they will exert more inlufence than their numbers would indicate. Moreover, they have a lot of $$$$ that could help Democratic fundraising.

just over 100,000,000 people voted in the 2000 election. This reflected a turnout of 67% of registered voters -- the electorate (it was only 50% of those eligible to vote, but unregistered voters are not part of the electorate.)

So the total electorate is about 150,000,000. 3 million voters would be 2% of the 2000 electorate.

For whatever reason, I missed this point previously.

In Michigan, for instance, the Muslim vote is significant.

It can be enough to decide Michigan.

If we receive 80-90% of the Muslim vote that would be a major swing since this nation is so divided right now.

I remember something like 100,000 Muslims voted for Bush in 2000 in Florida. They sure changed their minds after Ashcroft was appointed AG.

nt

just wondering.

Here are some quotes from the Koran. I find it sad that some people might think saying this would be bad or deem a person worthy of even more scorn than he already gets for repeating such things as:

"God is with those who persevere."

"Surely they who believe and do good deeds and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate they shall have their reward from their Lord, and they shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve."

"O my son! keep up prayer and enjoin the good and forbid the evil, and bear patiently that which befalls you; surely these acts require courage."

Only with divisive, bigoted posts.

to see a presidential candidate use his face time to teach Americans that the Koran is filled with love, repect, and piety, just like the Bible, etc. Some people would just marginalize it.

That the point of this entire thread is anti-Muslim, that the original poster has stated his "agreement" with the slanderous Saddam supports Dean and Kucinich cartoon posted below, and that the person I was responding to was not making that point at all--but was exploiting the moment to toss out another canard about Dean and religion?

Believe me, there are people who are sympathetic to American Muslims and who admire the Koran on this forum--but they are not the ones propelling this sneaky anti-Dean thrtead.

But anti American, definitely. I might as well have been visiting free republic when I saw this thread.

Re: anti-Muslim, I would say it is a matter of exploitation--of subtly playing the Muslim support "card" to suggest that Dean appeals to the "wrong element."

As for some of the responses--they are pure Repuke swill, as you observe.

I have addressed my concerns to the authorities.

I don't believe the original poster is anti-Muslim. Jumper is an old friend of mine and happens to be a Muslim!

I am agnostic but my entire family, save one cousin, are Muslim. I frequently post about Muslim Americans, perhaps more than anyone here. Just because this thread mentions Dean it is all of a sudden considered anti-Muslim. :shrug:

Thanks for coming to my defense! :pals:

:shrug:

I've always been a big fan of:

"He deserves Paradise who makes his companions laugh."

in 2000. They got played by their own religious leaders and the Republican party. They voted anti-jew, not pro-civilrights. They won't make that mistake again...

Only the fundies voted anti-Jew. There was more at play in why Muslims voted for Bush. First, they are an affluent and socially conservative group. Secondly, Bush was the first candidate to make a serious effort to court the Arab and Muslim vote. Civil rights were not on the Muslim radar screen in 2000, many felt it was only a "black issue."

n/t

...Gore/Leiberman. Voting Green also doesn't fit with your hypothesis that Muslims voted their economic interest...Sure fundies within the communinity voted anti-jew, but you don't have to be nuts to believe that Muslims are concerned at the rising influence of Jews and the potential for a Jewish president.

They, just like blond-haired blue-eyed Christian European-Americans voted based on their self-interest.

different than WASP politics. Always has been and always will be...

I will respond thereafter.

Interesting...

my point is that throughout American history people with ties to other countries tend to vote more on foreign policy issues esp. those that relate to their countries of origin. This is different than how WASP Americans since they consider they only relate to America. I separate out WASP from Catholics, because Catholics have their own set of issues and have different voting patterns than WASPs. Oh yeah, you contradicted yourself later in the posts, when you said that Muslims may not support Dean after they learn of his ties to AIPEC. If the "Jewish factor" doesn't matter, why would you bring this up? Obviously, it matters....

Let me amend my statement. Most Muslims, just like blond-haired blue-eyed non-WASP European-Americans voted based on their self-interest.

What say you?

that Muslims may not stick with Dean once they found out his ties to AIPEC...that's inconsistent with what you are saying in this thread. I gotta bounce soon...but it's not that far of a stretch to believe that large segments of the Muslim and Jewish community vote on the basis Isreal/Palistinian issue...

I have repeatedly stated that the vast majority of Muslims and Jews don't vote based on foreign affairs; only the fundies do.

Do you think they are more likely to vote based on foreign affairs than "white" non-WASP's? Do you think Italians will vote for Bush because Bush is close to Italy? Will Russians vote for Bush because Bush is friendly with Putin? Will Mexicans vote against Bush because he betrayed Fox?

I'd like to say I have first hand evidence of AIPAC's response to the campaigns of 2004, after tabling at a student conference yesterday, and Dean is not popular. His comments RE: policy in the Middle East made him look flaky in his support of Israel, which will alienate a very important swing vote called the Jewish vote.

And as a Jew I can say that someone who doesn't necessarily agree with Bush's domestic will gladly vote for him on the basis of his "foreign policy" towards the Middle East. And since I hate Bush, I'm appalled they would, but they would. And I personally spoke to people who plan to vote GOP, but after talking to them about Clark's positions on changing the regional dynamic in the Middle East, they were very encouraged. Maybe they'll vote for a democrat now.

Lieberman and Clark have strong stances supporting Israel and so they will be the two most popular within the Jewish community.

By Religion:
(Total percent of voters in parenthases)

Protestant (54): Gore 42; Bush 56; Nader 2
Catholic (26): Gore 50; Bush 47; Nader 2
Jewish (4): Gore 79; Bush 19; Nader 1
Other (6): Gore 62; Bush 28; Buchannan 1; Nader 7
None (9): Gore 61; Bush 30; Nader 7

Make of it what you will.

http://www.udel.edu/poscir/road/course/exitpollsindex.html

Muslims, overall, voted for Bush and among non-black Muslims the rate of support for Bush was extremely high.

The obviously would be in "other."

?

Even with all those nasty slurs thrown at supposedly elderly Jews in Florida who didn't know who they were voting for, Jews stil voted 79% for Gore - alllllllriiiiight!!!!

nt

he would be one of the 2%.

This is very good news for Florida, Michigan. My only worry is brother Jeb is already making up a new scrub list and you can bet your bottom dollar that Muslim American's will be on that list in 2004 courtesy of John Ashcroft's possible terrorists list.

in print, Dean is definitely the favorite of the Muslim community and he has the vast majority of their votes.

:shrug:

n/t

I don't think that will be enough to propel him to victory in Florida.

:)

The west side and west suburbs of Cleveland have lots of Muslims.

i think it is rather silly Dean is even attempting to campaign in Clevelands west side

it's his District

There are about a million and a half muslims who support Wesley Clark. Most likely there aren't a lot of American citizens among them but the are Muslim and they are heard in Islamic circles.

I wouldn't jump to a conclusion that Dean will be the automatic favorite of American muslims. Right now he is the frontrunner in the Democratic field and all but anointed in the press and the minds of his supporters. Tomorrow is another day.

Hey, who is the BIG endorsement going to be on the 30th?

Jimmy Carter?

Bill Clinton?

Brittany Spears?

I'm all atwitter.

They want an anti-war candidate and Dean has received almost all the coverage of the anti-war candidates. Once they get to know Clark their views my change, especially since Dean is close to AIPAC.

I have not heard about that announcement on the 30th. Can you tell me more about it?

Some of the chronic Dean supporters have posted comments on DU that there is rumored (yes, I said rumored) to be a big announcement for Dean on December 30th-31st. Some super-duper endorsement is supposed to be in the offing that may make ALL the difference.

I'm thinking the Pope, but who knows?

Reading my original post I see I might have confused some people by the way I phrased it. I should have made clear that it was the Dean supporters who were talking about this rumored development.

Oh, no, not again. I can't take these edge-of-seat-waiting-for-something-big things.

Don't torture me. I'll have to spank you.

:spank:

Inez Flapp, the retired former postmistress of Bugtussle, Oklahoma. The crucial Flapp Endorsement will surely lead to a glorious victory!

Certainly not to paint Dean as a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer now, would it?

Hmmm?

:eyes:

...African-Americans and Latinos? I actually posted something positive about Dean and I get attacked for it. :eyes:

where you stated your low opinion of Dean.

:eyes:

This is why: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=23573

:scared:

You haven't had a positive thing to say about Dean, ever. Given that record, it's plain to see what a thread connecting "Muslim" support to Dean (in a post 9/11 AlQaeda world) is all about.

I'm about to make your life easier. Dean supporters just aren't that dumb.

I did post a thread where I stated in the first post that Dean had the best positions on race relations.

I frequently post about Muslims and I just found it interesting that they appear to back Dean.

P.S. 99.9% of my family is Muslim. Hence, the interest in Muslims. I have consistently said that the vast majority of U.S. Muslims oppose terrorism and that Democrats need to reach out to them.

of anti-Howard Dean screeds you love to post? Sorry if I missed it, it's hard to detect a needle in a haystack if you get my drift.

Ahlan wa sahlan - wa Howard Dean Ar-raisu liameriki!

I am not here each day attacking him.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I am certain you don't mean it but your post may be seen by some as an implication that U.S. Muslims are anti-American. Please edit it.

Do you mean the 67% (of U.S. Muslims) cited above who plan to vote for Dean? You think a cartoon of SH wearing a Dean button, implying, I guess, that he and his supporters are dictator lovers; or that Howard Dean is weak on foreign policy, is going to be seen by some as an implication that 'Muslims' are "anti-American"?

That's a twist I don't see. Chances are, if they're committed to voting for Dean, they probably realize it is an attempt to make Howard Dean look "anti-American".

Given the context it was posted in it could be construed as implying that American Muslims are anti-American.

that Iraqi americans are pro american

and not to throw a stink bomb like that Saddam cartoon into the mix and then run from it. Very bad pool.

Or perhaps, the supporters of these candidates?

Are we all anti-American in your opinion?

Jeez.

The cartoon post is a reply to your original thread (context).

Again, I can see how this is a slam on Dean, but not U.S./American Muslims. Unless you think it means that voting for Dean is 'anti-American?

Perhaps you can explain the line of logic leading from this cartoon (or your original post (context) if that's what you mean) to "American Muslims are anti-American"?

If Dean is painted as anti-American and that is done in a post that mentions overwhelming Muslim support for him it could be interpreted by some as implying that Muslims are anti-American. That being said, no Muslim has complained about it so I drop my objection to it.

I did not intend this to be an attack on you windansea. I am on your side. ;)

Do you agree with the direct claims that it makes:

1. That Dean and Kucinich are Saddam-lovers?

2. That Dean and Kucinich are anti-American?

3. That France and the UN are Saddam-lovers?

Just wondering....

I am merely anti-Dean, like windansea.

talk about spin!

That is something a Republican would do. Shame.

and not to mention absurd...

Merry Christmas everyone...

sorry can't edit a cartoon

would American muslims include iraqis?

let's frame the debate shall we??

nope,can't find it here.

Thanks for exposing you're true motivations there, "wind"nsea. ;)

the cartoon is relevant to how Dean's we are not safer comment will play out with muslim americans...a LOT of whom are from Iraq

deal with it

the truth is we are no safer because of Saddam's capture. The truth is that the invasion and occupation of Iraq has made us less safe.

Deal with it.

the cartoon is a rightwing racist piece of crap.

Are reduced to posting cartoons by shameless right-wing trash?

Anyone else notice the resemblance to Walter Matthau? I don't think we caught Sadam at all, Matthau has been hiding out the whole time.

we see this posted. I'm amazed.

Note also the anti-French, anti-UN message of this piece of Republican, Right-Wing garbage.

what the hell are you doing posting this garbage? This cartoon equates Dean and DK with Saddam and France? Hey, I'll take the association with France and the UN, since they were right all along, but Saddam? This is a racist right wing cartoon. Is this what Kerry supporters have been reduced to? Or is it just you?

How could any Democrat or progressive possibly agree with or support the message of that cartoon?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Dean is strong on civil rights issues, especially racial profiling. The typical Muslim will not vote based on what happened in a distant, 55 year old conflict.

I can think of a few others who have denounced it publicly including Clark and Kucinich. Whether Dean is strongest on civil rights or not is a matter of interpretation. He didn't seem to have a problem with the Patriot act until he started running for the presidency.

I strongly condemn the unjustified use of race in making routine law enforcement decisions like traffic stops. I would support federal legislation to try to help end racial profiling, and to provide support and training for police departments that tackle the issue. And I would reinstate various programs that President Clinton put in place, to provide more opportunity for young people from minority communities to become police officers in the first place. Most of our police officers - from every racial background - are heroes who do a great job each day. And better-integrated police departments would help even more.

http://clark04.com/issues/africanamericans/

And yet, Clark lobbyied on behalf of Acxiom to help the government establish unprecedented surveillance dossiers on the traveling public that would result in pre-emptive detention based on nothing more than profiling.

There's a lot I like about Clark, but until he reconciles his statements on civil liberties with his private actions in support of a scheme clearly violative of constiutional protections, there will be a question mark of doubt looming large.

I hope Muslims and all other Americans support him!

Is this the sort of thing you think helps your candidate?

I don't attack Dean the person. I like him. I am opposed to his nomination because I believe he cannot win.

More divisive bigotry to scare a portion of the electorate? The ABD crowd must even disgust themselves.
I don't like Sharon at all, but even I can see that your graphic is antisemetic. You are using the "Scary Jews want to rule the world" sentiment to try and sway other voters.

I note that we have been treated to Anti-Muslim, Anti-Semitic, Anti-French, anti-UN, AND anti-Democratic and anti-Peace supporter vitroil on this flamebait, disgusting thread.

What a stinking, miserable disgrace....

Call it flamebait but if you use loaded terms explain yourself? Is posting an anti-Lukid article anti-semetic? And explain the racism charge?

If you don't like the picture - Complain to the website where it came from.

Don't you get it?

In the picture in the context of the article?

for bringing it here. All that was required to make whatever point you were aiming for was the link and a paragraph or two. You were the one who chose to show us that ridiculous picture. When did that event actually occur, or will you post just any photoshopped piece of crap?

Or only that it's inflammitory - Otherwise what's your point if you can't answer the question?

Dean is a tool of Sharon and Likud, rather than merely being pro-Israel. Personally, I would like more info on what event that supposedly was and, if it was a real event, what was in the rest of the picture, as it's been carefully cropped. Just because you enjoy scaring yourself with the thought that Dean is a possible Sharon-tool, doesn't make it the truth, nor is it appropriate to drop that picture into a thread on Muslim support for Dean. Posting it here was certainly inflammatory. Whether it is more anti-Semitic than the entire thread is anti-Muslim, only you would know.

Do the policies of Sharon/Lukid represent all Israeli's or all Jewish people? I didn't level the charge of anti-semitism so I can't explain your opinion.

Right, we are not ALL as stupid as you would like to believe, my friend.

We "get it, " see?

The article was written in New Zealand to talk about Democrats courting American Muslims--something I have called for repeatedly. That was the main point of the article and the thread. Dean was of secondary importance.

but the way you titled the thread and commented in your original post, along with others' posts, have turned this into a thread primarily about Dean. I'm pleased that Muslims in America have woken up and noticed the Repukes flushing their interests down the toilet.

I quoted the article. After that brief mention of Dean he was not mentioned until post #8.

which was the part of the article that focused on Dean's numbers.

too pro Israel. That makes next week, "Too pro-Palestine" week.

Can't wait.

nt

disgusting.

And "Cartoons" that is has inspired.

Vomitous.

Vile.

And as you say, disgusting.

I don't even see an attack. :shrug:

What am I missing?

You are not that naive. A Clark supporter posts an article talking about Dean being the favorite of Muslims. The intent is painfully clear.

Muslims attacked the WTC , Muslims are terrorists, Dean is the favorite of terrorists. It's a blatant attack that plays on the fear and racism fostered by bushes never ending WOT.

You know as well as I do that that was the intent of the original post.

But have your fun. I'll leave you to it. :)

the poster admitted in this thread that he is on an anti-dean posting spree, but you don't see it. Sure.

So tell me why a self declared anti-dean poster would post this article if he meant it to be favorable and not an attack.

I said I occasionally go on anti-Dean posting sprees. When I posted this I don't recall posting another thread about Dean.

Why did I post it? Because I post about American Muslims often. I wouldn't expect many people to know since they rarely read threads about American Muslims are Arabs.

For the vicious, anti-Dem cartoon that associates Dean and Kucinich with Saddam.

If you cannot se that this a freeper cartoon, I would question your eyesight.

I admit my eyesight isn't that good. I'll read through the thread again. I'm not afraid of saying I agree if I do.

On edit: I read the thread through. Again, I did not see the offensive cartoon, but it sounds as if it was offensive. Regarding the discussion of ethnic voting blocks, which is what I had responded to, I see no problem at all. It is not racist to discuss racial or ethnic groups vis a vis any candidate or dem platform.

The Dean slam I recall is this: "Dean is close to AIPAC." My understanding is that Dean clarified his position regarding AIPAC, so maybe he was at one time close and is no longer or never was, I don't know. This one does follow Dean supporters around, just as slams on Clark's short-lived business career follow us around. You or I can either answer for the hundredth time or ignore. I don't know what else can be done. It's a pain in the ass, but both sides do it. It doesn't appear it will stop anytime soon, unfortunately.

Plus an I Heart France button and a UN T-shirt.

It was totally freeperville....

The last time I checked Islam was a religion. If it suddenly became a race I would be included in it because of my ethnicity. :eyes:

:puke: How come it's wrong that most Muslims like Dean? This thread seems to infer that it is.

?

Notice that I said MAY support Dean. The was based on an unscientific poll.

If I had said "Democrats court Hispanic vote; Clark MAY be favorite" would you deem that racist?

Congrats on the careful crafting of the piece, my friend.

But you reveal your hand above when you "agree" with the posting of the inflamatory cartoon that labels two Dem candidates and their supporters asd anti-American.

Thanks for the slander!

And only casts doubt on the judgement of those who support him.

General Clark is fortunate to have some eloquent and constructive supporters on this board.

I suggest in future that you look to them for guidance.

Blanket statements minus explainations don't help your argument. When people call out racism and anti-semetism they have to back it up.

It is flamebait.

And I was referring as well to some of the responses, including the deleted anti-Dean, anti-Kucinich, and anti-Dem freeper cartoon.

AND the anti-Dean, Sharon-brandishing flamebait graphic.

Look, if you can't see what is going on here, that is not my problem.

Calling it flamebait or freeper-like is fine but the above charges need an explaination.

How about:

A "Clark Supporter" posts a thread about how Muslims prefer Dean!!!!

An idiot posts a cartoon that shows Saddam wearinf Kucinich and Dean buttons.

You post a graphic that shows Dean before a picture of Sharon and an Israeli flag, suggesting that Dean is a uniquely a puppet of Likud and Sharon and the "Israel Lobby."

A Poster snidely remarks that Dean should add "readings form the Koran" to his speeches-...

Today seems to be the day that hate and ignorance triumphed over good will and sanity at DU.

What a dungeon this place is becoming.

Circumspect - Neither the charges of anti-semitism nor racism has been explained. Dean/Lukid comparisons have nothing to do with either of the above charges.

I do not expect you to express agreement.

Good night.

This was all planned. Now, excuse me, I have to join 50 other planned threads. :eyes:

The world does not revolve around Howard Dean. If I posted a thread with the title "Democrats seek Hispanic vote; Clark MAY lead", would that be deemed racist?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=42855

Is this racist too? Or do you have one standard for Muslims and one for others?

.

Is this another instance of hit-and-run personal attacks by the Dean camp?

After taking a dip in the nauseating mosaic of bigotry and discord that your post inspired....

The amount of bigotry and discord caused by this thread was 1/100th of what was caused by a certain candidate appealing to racist voters...I should change my DU name to Howard Dean... ;)

It isn't my fault people here can't discuss Muslims without assuming that a reference to Muslims is a reference to terrorists or without revealing their bigotry. We can discuss every group on Earth and who they are or are not supporting in a civl manner except Muslims.