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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:36 PM
Original message
LGBT Voters Weighing Kerry
Daley laid out the Massachusetts senator's long track record of support on gay civil right issues for the Southern Voice recently, a record he says that dates back to 1985 "long before it was fashionable" and still quite risky to back gay and lesbian civil rights. "This isn't just a guy talking about it, he was doing it before anyone else told him to do it," said Daley, 37. Daley joined Kerry's campaign on the recommendation of good gay friend Bob Farmer, who serves as the Kerry campaign's national treasurer.

<snip>

Specifically, Kerry has endorsed civil unions or domestic partnerships as an alternative. Asked about Kerry's response to his home state's high court ruling that many say will legalize gay marriage in Massachusetts, Daley told the Voice Kerry is, "right there with it." The main challenge for Daley is to convince so many disaffected LGBT supporters of Dean that they have a home with Kerry. We're up against a strong voice" in Dean, he said, but "Kerry has that, too."

"We are not going to be another issue on the platform. That was important to me. I did not want to get involved in a campaign for the sake of it," Daley said. Kerry was the original co-sponsor of the hate crimes bill and in 1985 introduced a bill banning bias on the basis of sexual orientation. He has been a vocal supporter ENDA (the Employment Non-Discrimination Act), has called for an end to "don't ask, don't tell, don't pursue" and was one of just 14 senators (significantly, the only one up for reelection that year) to oppose the Defense of Marriage Act.

That kind of record is gaining Kerry an increasingly loyal following of community activists. "I didn't pay much attention to him at first," one Oklahoma volunteer wrote the DataLounge, "but there isn't a candidate in this campaign who's put more on the line for this community."

http://www.datalounge.com/datalounge/news/record.html?record=21186
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. not a candidate in this campaign who's put more on the line
well said. and true.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. total bunk
Dean put his life on the line which Kerry didn't.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Why are so many are unwilling to give Kerry the credit he deserves?
Edited on Tue Feb-03-04 02:46 PM by Feanorcurufinwe
Disappointment over election results is understandable, but willful ignorance of Kerry's record isn't.

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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I believe the "Total Bunk"
Edited on Tue Feb-03-04 02:56 PM by indigo32
was in reference to NewYorkerfromMass 's claim that noones put more on the line.
I've never disparaged Kerrys record on the issue.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Why are so many unwilling to read posts
The post said Kerry was the only one. He isn't. That is my point.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Actually the phrase 'only one' appears in your post and no other?
What are you talking about?

Specifically, Kerry has endorsed civil unions or domestic partnerships as an alternative. Asked about Kerry's response to his home state's high court ruling that many say will legalize gay marriage in Massachusetts, Daley told the Voice Kerry is, "right there with it." The main challenge for Daley is to convince so many disaffected LGBT supporters of Dean that they have a home with Kerry. We're up against a strong voice" in Dean, he said, but "Kerry has that, too."
http://www.datalounge.com/datalounge/news/record.html?record=21186



The article clearly says that both Dean and Kerry have a good record on gay rights.


It does quote 'one Oklahoma volunteer' as saying: ""I didn't pay much attention to him at first but there isn't a candidate in this campaign who's put more on the line for this community."

Now you can disagree with that characterization it you want. Perhaps you think Dean has put more on the line. In that case you and this Oklahoma volunteer have a difference of opinion.

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. You should at least read your own posts
but there isn't a candidate in this campaign who's put more on the line for this community."


This is the last line of yours. I think death threats are more than a possible loss of his seat. Especially when his opponent, Weld, was also pro gay rights.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I know what I wrote. And what you wrote was wrong.

No one said anything about Kerry being the 'only' anything.

I can't wait for a few more days to go by and Dean concede defeat so we can stop having these silly, pointless and divisive arguments.


Many aren't willing to give Kerry the credit he deserves for his gay rights record.


But I believe they will be on board when it is time to take the fight to Bush.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I quoted your post
For petes sake. I honestly don't know what other meaning no other candidate has.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. If you are interested in having a discussion, respond to this:
The article clearly says that both Dean and Kerry have a good record on gay rights.


It does quote 'one Oklahoma volunteer' as saying: ""I didn't pay much attention to him at first but there isn't a candidate in this campaign who's put more on the line for this community."

Now you can disagree with that characterization it you want. Perhaps you think Dean has put more on the line. In that case you and this Oklahoma volunteer have a difference of opinion.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. and it should be noted that is the quote I responded to
if you have any doubts go to my first post and see what it was in response to (look at the little blue number if you have forgotten).
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. You said it said Kerry was the 'only one' and it doesn't say that.
Edited on Tue Feb-03-04 03:20 PM by Feanorcurufinwe
Does it?
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. No just no other candidate
I think those are equivalent.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. In other words, you misquoted. Is that my fault?
Edited on Tue Feb-03-04 03:24 PM by Feanorcurufinwe
:hi:
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. So if I say that no other candidate but Dean
is a real Democrat you won't say I said Dean is the only real Democrat?
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. You've lost me; I don't care how many angels dance on the head of a pin.

I just want to beat Bush.


and...
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. There is a huge difference
between not a candidate in this campaign who's put more on the line and what you just said.

If you said "not a candidate in this campaign is more of a Democrat" you would have an analogy, but parse that sentence as compared to the one you are trying to make it.

"no one is more of a Democrat" is a long way from "no other candidate is a real Democrat". Do you see the difference?

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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. You're breaking my heart Feanor
really you are
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I'm sorry, I truly do not understand your post.
Edited on Tue Feb-03-04 03:23 PM by Feanorcurufinwe
Unless it is meant to be hostile towards me. If so, I forgive you.


You know I have a soft spot for you. Maybe it's the avatar.



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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. he he
Ani Rocks
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
38. Do You Really Expect
To see John Kerry sign into law a piece of legislation that may lead to the necessity of wearing a bulletproof vest?
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. You've made a nonsensical comment that could only

have meaning if you begin with several false premises.

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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Prove it.
Just because he was told to wear protection doesn't mean his life was ever in danger. Meanwhile, Kerry did put his life on the line in Vietnam so he could come back here and fight for all of us.
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Thats pretty sad
now Dean is making things up about death threats he received?
Get over it.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Death threats and an actual murder attempt are 2 different things
People get death threats all the time, it doesn't make them real.
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Ummm
this arguement is just ridiculous. A public figure has to take death threats seriously whether they are or are not. Neither you or I are in a position to determine the reality of what Dean faced... and even if we were this pissing match is pointless. I didn't jump in to get involved in one... I just got offended when you implied that it wasn't a big deal... it was.


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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. I believe Dean got death threats, just like Kerry did in 85 and when he
testified in front of Congress for gays to be allowed to serve openly in the military. The right wingnuts watched it on Cspan and lost their minds.

How soon we forget.

Apparently Kerry's life isn't worth as much back in 85 and 93 as Dean's in 2000 for some people.
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Why do you do this... is it supposed to change my mind or something?
It won't. This isn't some kind of pissing match about who went through more, and of course John Kerry's life is worth just as much. What a ridiculus assertion.
My decision and probably most peoples is based on the larger picture, of which GLBT issues are only one.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. No it is supposed to place the facts where someone whose mind isn't
already made up can judge them.

Surely none of the committed candidate supporters at DU think they can change the minds of other committed candidate supporters at DU? Or if someone does believe that, I hope they are not planning any Dems election strategy.

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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. no offense but...
Edited on Tue Feb-03-04 03:37 PM by indigo32
"Apparently Kerry's life isn't worth as much back in 85 and 93 as Dean's in 2000 for some people."

was so factual and necessary. /sarcasm
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. I agree on that point
Edited on Tue Feb-03-04 03:40 PM by Feanorcurufinwe

Sometimes the rhetoric does get overly heated.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. Just setting the story straight.
Kerry has been given short shrift on this issue.
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. by whom???
got any evidence for that?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. Gave more, dsc...
gave more!!!! Response #1 does not say gave "as much", it says "gave more". And your response was "Bunk".

Now, using your logic in the above posts, that says to me that you believe Governor Dean's life is worth more than Senator Kerry's life.

Of course, I believe you misunderstood the original response, so please read it again.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thankfully they are listening now.
It was frustrating to hear so many new activists who had no idea how much Kerry had put forth for them and their cause because he was certain it was the right thing to do and just a bandwagon trend.

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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. I got my man already
he received death threats for the cause.
thx though
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
GumboYaYa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
39. Does anyone know how Kerry voted on the Defense of
Marriage Act? That will tell me a whole lot about where he stands on these issues.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Some one correct me if I'm wrong..
but I believe he voted "No".
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. He voted against DOMA.
He was one of only 14 senators to do so, and he was the only one who was up for reelection that year -- and it was a very close election.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Against. He said it was "the Senate being used to gay bash."
It was during an election year for him, too.
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GumboYaYa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. I knew I could find a reason to like Kerry if I looked long enough.
Just kidding BLM, I know there are plenty of reasons to like Kerry. His support for alternative energy is another big one for me. It's just that among the choices available right now, he is near the bottom of my list. If he is the nominee I will strongly support him and the Democratic party.
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