Rudy Giuliani is NOT too liberal to win in the south

There's an LBN thread posted right now on the topic of Giuliani, and a lot of responders are dismissing Giuliani as someone who's "too liberal" to go over well in the South should he run for president. They point out that Giuliani has been photographed dressed up in drag for a NYC gay rights parade, and that he once roomed with some gay friends, and is pro-choice, etc.

But the thing is, unless the Democratic party is willing to suddenly become as dirty as Karl Rove and spam southern TV stations with "Rudy dressed in drag/Rudy supports abortion" commercials, the average person in the Bible Belt will never really consider Giuliani a "liberal". And besides, why would the Democratic party alienate it's own constiuency with gay-baiting and abortion-issue-exploitation campaigning?

From my observations, I think that the GOP power elite will soon back off from the "wedge-issue", cultural warfare type of politics that has given them so much undeserved success in the past 20 years. Giuliani is the kind of socially moderate "tough guy" conservative that the country club Republicans who fund the GOP mostly relate to, and I believe that he might very well be the GOP candidate (if not Condi "Osama Who?" Rice).

would do all the things you mentioned. The Repubs will stop him.

...are not a unified group. This is politics for crying out loud. If someone believes that they can get a shot at the nomination by playing the "wedge-issue" game they will do it.

The social conservatives may bitch, but at the end of the day, the corporatists, the big money-men, own the Republican Party.

With his record on choice and gays and such. No way.

I failed to take into account what his REPUBLICAN challengers would be willing to say and do.

:blush:

Here I was, thinking I had stumbled upon some unique political insight concerning Giuliani...

:silly:

For a good reason, he would play well on the national stage, you are right. But his competitors have too much video tape on Rudy, heh. Including that whole mistress business... In NYC we couldn't have cared less, but going out on the town with the mistress while the wife and kiddies sit at home won't play well with republican primary voters, heh.

For some reason the Catholic Church does not excommunicate him nor even give him the Communion blues the way they did Kerry.

Giuliani is a racist. He was particularly hard on the poor, the homeless and especially on African Americans (no matter what their economic level.) He ran a city where "children went hungry, the poor were forgotten and many city cops were racists." (NY Daily News, 4/12/06)

His own deputy mayor, Rudy Crew, said,

"There's something very deeply pathological about Rudy's humanity. He was barren, completely emotionally barren, on the issue of race."

He publicly humiliated his second wife, Donna Hanover, by announcing his intent to file for divorce and to date Judith Nathan (his paramour) in a daily press conference before even telling Hanover of his plans. Nathan's child ran away amid some drama with Giuliani, but he managed to get the child enrolled in one of NYC's premier schools.

After his announcement Hanover remained in the Mayor's official residence with their two children and Giuliani moved out and stayed in a luxury apartment with two male friends, but he decided to have a party at the Mayor's mansion and had Judith Nathan in attendance even though Hanover and the children were upstairs during the dinner party.

If this is what the Republicans want, then it shows what hypocrites they are.

I just like repeating that, I think. ;)

:evilgrin:

ON TELEVISION DURING A PRESS CONFERENCE!!!!

:rofl:

fast friendship w/Bernie Kerik. His sterling character was shouted from the rooftops by dimson prior to pulling him for his nefarious past:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31475-2004Dec3.html

Bernie Kerik is one of the most accomplished and effective leaders of law enforcement in America. In his career, he has served as an enlisted military police officer in Korea, a jail warden in New Jersey, a beat cop in Manhattan, New York City corrections commissioner and as New York's 40th police commissioner, an office once held by Teddy Roosevelt.

In every position, he has demonstrated a deep commitment to justice, a heart for the innocent and a record of great success.

I'm grateful he has agreed to bring his lifetime of security experience and skill to one of the most important positions in the federal government.

Bernie is a dedicated, innovative reformer who insists on getting results. As the head of New York City jails, he cut inmate violence by more than 90 percent. As Mayor Rudy Giuliani's police commissioner, he had great success in reducing crime in New York City. His broad, practical, hands-on experience makes Bernie superbly qualified to lead the Department of Homeland Security.
snip//


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Kerik

Nomination as Secretary of Homeland Security

On December 2, 2004, Kerik was nominated by President Bush to succeed Tom Ridge as United States Secretary of Homeland Security. But on December 10, after a week of press scrutiny, Kerik withdrew acceptance of the nomination. Kerik stated that he had unknowingly hired an undocumented worker as a nanny and housekeeper who had used someone else's social security number. Similar violations of immigration law had previously caused the withdrawal of the nominations of Linda Chavez as Secretary of Labor by G.W. Bush and of Zoe Baird as Attorney General by Bill Clinton.

But this turned out to be just the tip of the iceberg. Shortly after withdrawal of the nomination, the press reported on several other incidents which might also have posed difficulties in gaining confirmation by the Senate. These include: an outstanding arrest warrant from 1998 stemming from unpaid bills on the maintenance of a condominium (documents regarding this warrant were faxed to the White House less than three hours before Kerik submitted his withdrawal of acceptance to the President); questions regarding Kerik's sale of stock in Taser International shortly before the release of an Amnesty International report critical of the company's stun-gun product; two simultaneous extra-marital affairs, one with his publisher Judith Regan, alleged by many close to Kerik to have taken place partly in a donated apartment near the World Trade Center site intended for rescue workers; a sexual harassment lawsuit; allegations of misuse of police personnel and property for personal benefit; connections with a construction company suspected of having ties to organized crime; and failure to comply with ethics rules on gifts. Kerik has publically refuted many of these allegations. For example, he has stated that the sale of his Taser stock was done expressly to avoid any conflict of interest charges as head of the Department of Homeland Security.

I forgot about him. The GOP still hasn't forgiven Rudy for that, heh.

That he had his mistress living with him in whatever residence he had from the city?

Or am I confusing him with someone else. Tell me I'm not. ;)

Republicans managed to wipe that from their collective memories...

And he didn't run around in public with his mistress and then announce to his wife that he was divorcing her on live TV.

Rudy is in a "class" all his own, lol..

the second to Donna Hanover (and he treated her badly), and then Judith Nathan.

Plus, he doesn't LOOK presidential. This is a shallow aspect of the competition, but it plays a role in the selection process. That bumpy, shiny, Homer-Simpson's-boss dome and goofy face just don't play across the land. It may work in the northeast, but he'd be the ugliest president since Nixon--and Nixon had better hair.

If he runs, he might be hoping for the top slot, but he'd settle for number two or a juicy cabinet post--that's often the way they strategize it.

He is too short, too ethnic, too "moderate" (for the primaries), too divorced and too New York City.

He's an egomaniac but he isn't stupid, he must know he can't win. If he runs it will be to try to angle for a cabinet post, as you said.

handle State (the most senior position)? Would he like to be Treasury, with lots of free time and access to economic bigshots?

Or perhaps, rather than the tedium of the Cabinet, he dreams of being UN ambassador, to put his footprint on the world stage??? Or perchance, to rest on his laurels, it's off to Rome to be the Italian ambassador (a real jewel of a job, but usually reserved for major moneymakers/fundraisers)???

It has his name all over it. He could do all the shit he was doing in NYC to the furthest extreme on a national level. Then his notorious "enemies list" would come out again, and this time he could send them all to Gitmo.

order of Cabinet ranking!

He always struck me as a guy who liked to be lead dog....

With himself as Dictator. I think he would take AG, but in some ways Homeland Security is more high profile (visible) and the man needs face time.

And they would never ever vote for a Jew.

That's how incredibly uninformed they are, and they're all successful
biz people. Go figure.

Maybe they think it's spelled "Jew-liani"

;-)

My god, I will bet you are right! :rofl:

My niece said, "Well, that's almost as bad as being a Jew."

Which makes Rudy have to say, "Good heavens, no. I'm not a Jew."

Which would insult millions of voters.

Not to mention the awkward "He's not a Jew; he's a Catholic" campaign
moments.

And that's why I don't think Rudy G. will play well
in the Styx.

One of my favorite Guiliani pics. That's him,looking a bit like Babs Bush in an SNL skit..

It was one of the very few likable things about him, heh.

conscious town like NYC, the NY Daily News was quick to point out that she is NOT Jewish. I think Nathan was her married name so it is possible that she was married to a Jewish man.

They certainly are stunningly uninformed, as you so graciously put it, but perhaps it's the SOUND of the name that is confusing them!!!

JEW-Liani!!!!!

Oi, VEY!!!!!!!!!!

The Rs will air all his dirty laundry in the primaries.

In the primaries. Our guy won't do it, but they or surrogates will. Once word of this stuff gets out in the primaries, then the MSM would pick it up (despite their bias, intra-party issues may force them to default to their desire to pick up the most salacious headlines.)

Plus, I have a hard time seeing southern conservatives and members of the "base" going for an Italian-American.

I still think we have a long time to go before we have a Black, woman, Jewish, Hispanic, gay, or even Italian-American president. Many, many Americans are bigoted.

I know about the history of racism towards southern Italians and Sicilians, since many of them have north African blood (Sicily was ruled by Carthage, Greek city-states, and was ruled by Muslims for a period during the Middle Ages.) However, I don't see that being an issue with most Italians, and Giuliani looks like his ancestry is from northern Italy. Now being Catholic could hurt him. The ultra-whacko protestant fundies (I'm a mainline Methodist, so I'm not painting Protestanism with a broad brush, since that's impossible to do anyway) won't like him, and neither will conservative Catholics, because he's pro-choice and pro-gay rights (although I think that he will do an about face to pander to the social conservatives.)

I've never seen that movie before.

Basically, in it Christopher Walken plays a mafia guy who's shaking Dennis Hopper's character down for information concerning the whereabouts of Hopper's son. Instead of telling Walken where his son is, Hopper's character calmly relates the racial history of the Sicilian people -- and how they were descended from "ni***ers". (Walken's character happens to be Sicilian). As Hopper is still explaining how Walken's great-great-great-greatgrandmother likely had sex with a black man, Walken asks one of his goombas for a his gun...and, I'm sure you can guess what happens next.

some of my past reading. The same holds true in Spain and Portugal, but of course, everyone wants to forget that there might be a drop or two of African blood in the family line. When I was a kid some 40-50 years ago, most Spaniards, Portuguese and Italians that I grew up near were darkskinned - they looked beautifully suntanned all year long. Then as they consistently intermarried with Europeans from more northerly areas they seemed to lighten up.

Giuliani does not look Italian to me at all. With his poor posture and nasty attitude he looks like leftover garbage.

His father was involved with the mafia according to the NY Daily News.

:spray:

I'm married to an Italian-American and have gorgeous Italian American kids.

BUT I do think this country equates Italian-Americans with gangsters, and as good a show as The Sopranos might be (actually I haven't seen it) it didn't help that stereotype.

Maybe I'm wrong, but from where I sit, it's hard to see this country with an Italian president.

That could also be the case. My region has a lot of people who are of Italian descent, from northern AND southern Italy, and the physical appearence between them can be worlds apart. I met a guy who had Sicilian ancestry, and I accidently thought that he was Latino. Meanwhile, I know someone who's Italian, and that person is paler than I am.

redheads with green eyes, and blue eyed blondes as well. Italy was the center of the universe for quite a while, and there's all sorts of swell DNA up and down the boot!

In Europe during the height of the Roman Empire, and even before that. There were even black and Arab Romans(pre-Islamic of course.) Also...and this is getting only slightly off track, I think that some people in Britain have some southern European ancestry, especially British people who have a "Roman nose" that looks similar to what some Spanish, Italian, and Sephardic Jewish people have. There is also evidence that the Basques have genetic similarities with some of the British population.

I used to watch this rather unintentionally humorous TV show on RAI many years back, that was sort of like a TOP GUN show. It concerned a group of handsome young fellows who were Italian Air Force pilots, who would have the most absurd exploits, romance different women every week, and were macho to the point of hysterics. One of them was plainly of Ethiopian descent...

I'd forgotten about that program, it was one of those "so bad, it's good" efforts!

I wonder if Mussolini made up something similar in attempting to justify his rape of Ethiopia. BTW, if you run into anyone who is Lebanese or north African, you may mistake them for Sicilian in some cases.

Of course, the minute your Moroccan or Algerian pals open their mouths, the locals know they're not from the neighborhood!

regardless of how fabulous Giuliani looks in drag. The GOP conveniently and hypocritically excuses all things they would mercilessly pillory a Democrat for, so no worries in that regard.

The good news is that many people remember what a big joke Giuliani was in NY prior to 9/11 and that the events of that day don't change that. Rewarding Rudy for being in the right place at the right time politically makes as much sense as Junior getting a 90% approval rating post-9/11 for failing to protect America that day. America is coming to its collective senses in that regard.

I believe as many indies Giuliani might attract he will repel conservative Republicans.

People do.

which is, of course, what I meant :)

As tallied by those trustworthy machines.

Even Blue State voters sometimes mess up. Fine Governor you've got there!

Hopefully we will remedy that this fall.

just give them a push in one direction or the other.

Sorry, but yes Giuliani is to liberal to win the South. Giuliani will never win in the primaries. He can wish for the wins all he wants but it will not happen.

That alone is likely to harm him in the red states. However, Secretary of State Rice is known to be very pro-gun. What do you think is the likelihood that Guiliani/Rice would be the Repub ticket in 2008?

Anyone who was around at the beginning of DU will remember numerous southern DUers claiming that only southerners can win the presidency because their neighbors would never vote for anyone else. Not surprisingly, the northerners responded with a big "F the South" in response to those threads. And thus was the current North-South divide on DU born.

So where are those DUers on this thread? Shouldn't they be shouting that Guliani's politics don't matter? That his being a northerner alone disqualifies him from winning in the south?

And he's too liberal for them.

You think old money preppy aristocracy like the Bushes kowtow to the fundie rabble because they like them? Or even because its convenient? Hell no, they do it because it would be impossible for them to win without the fag-hating bible thumpers.

Don't go thinking the old money funds the GOP; Delay wasn't raising his money from old money. The old money country club republicans have been completely castrated, they are powerless in this GOP. Christie Whitman tried to revive the genre with her book about taking back her party, and where did that go?

The GOP is funded by big businesses that have been put over a barrel by the GOP and forced to give (the K street project, Delay's shakedowns and extortion). The money comes from everywhere when you have the power and are willing to use it so crassly.

And thank God, because Giuliani is a walking, breathing Republican wedge issue, and his nomination could just be the best thing that could happen for us.

a ranch in Texas and pretend to sweat.

in the South.

No need to bring out the Rudy in drag photos. Giuliani is a gun grabber of the first order. That's not going to fly down south or in the west.

Say "buh-bye" Rudy.

largely over the gun issue...do you actually think an out-of-stater who is arguably worse on the gun issue would do any better? No way...even if he were running against Dianne Feinstein...and against a pro-gun Dem, Mr. "guns for me but not for thee" Guliani would go down hard...

as "Yellow Dog Democrats" - so as long as there's an R next to his name. ..

His fellow Republicans would pound him with all that stuff in the primaries. That's what Bush did to John McCain to beat him, and Giuliani has a hundred times more ammo lying around. He'd have the shit kicked out of him long before Super Tuesday.