Newshour: McGovern "Information is the oxygen for democracy."

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/fedagencies/jan-june06/leaks_4-24.html


Ray McGovern was an analyst for 27 years. He retired in 1990. He is now a member of the group Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, which has criticized the current administration for politicizing intelligence.

CIA CRACKS DOWN ON LEAKS

April 24, 2006
 
JIM LEHRER: A 20-year veteran of the agency, Mary McCarthy, was fired on Thursday for leaking information about CIA secret prison camps to the Washington Post. The newspaper won a Pulitzer Prize for those stories. CIA Director Porter Goss reportedly told CIA employees Friday that McCarthy had failed a polygraph test and then admitted to unauthorized disclosures. There's no word on whether the government will take any further action against her.

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RAY MCGOVERN: I think, Jim, this was an exceptional case... Yes, really an exceptional case. Never before, in my experience for 27 years in the agency, was I aware of war crimes. Now, we're talking about serious things here... <> ... I assume that she went through the proper channels. She was working for the inspector general, but the inspector general, however...

JIM LEHRER: The agency's inspector general, right.

RAY MCGOVERN: Yes, he's supposed to be independent, but he's really a creature of the director. And the director marches down with the vice president to try to persuade Senator McCain to create an exception so that the CIA can torture people.

And so she's faced with a situation that's real. The director is in favor of torture. And their only other recourse is Congress. And Congress, the oversight committees -- I hate to say this, but it's a joke.

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JIM LEHRER: Mr. McGovern?

RAY MCGOVERN: Well, that's a good point that Dick makes. That's the reason these prisons are overseas, because there is U.S. law, 18 U.S. Code 2441, the War Crimes Act, which forbids these activities, torture, rendition, putting people, disappearing people, and so forth. And so that's why these things are created overseas.

But my point is: This is not American. This is not the country that we serve. And when we see this happening, somebody has to speak out.

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American hero or violator of trust?
 
JIM LEHRER: Mr. McGovern, do you agree with Mr. Kerr that there is a big need now for discipline within the agency, that there things have gotten loose, in terms of not only talking to the press -- well, you heard what he said -- publishing books, and people violating the secrecy rules?

RAY MCGOVERN: In my day, we took our secrecy agreement very seriously. And we don't dismiss that lightly. But I would suggest that these are extraordinary times.

Never before has my country launched -- which by any definition, especially Nuremberg -- amounts to a war of aggression. And Nuremberg defined...

JIM LEHRER: You mean in Iraq?

RAY MCGOVERN: Yes, which defined that as the supreme international crime, holding within itself the accumulated evil of the whole. What did they mean by that? They mean torture; they mean rendition, these kinds of things. And this is what's going on.

And when the director is marching down the vice president to defend torture, and when the oversight committees are completely asleep, there's no other recourse than for a person like Mary to have the guts to say, "Yes, I'll probably get caught on this, but I'll do it anyway."

JIM LEHRER: So you believe -- excuse me, I'll be right there, Mr. Kerr -- do you believe the American people listening to this tonight and who have been reading the stories the last couple of days, how should they view Mary McCarthy, Mr. McGovern, as a heroine?

RAY MCGOVERN: Well, I think they should realize that they would know nothing about this, they would know nothing about the torture, the renditions and so forth that's going on in our name if Mary hadn't gone to whoever she went to and told the story. It's necessary for us to know this.

You know, information is the oxygen for democracy. If we don't know what's going on, how can we prevent this kind of abuse?

Did they mention McGovern's confrontation with Rummy today?
Who is Kerr?
McCarthy and McGovern are BOTH heroes in my book.

"And Nuremberg... defined that as the supreme international crime, holding within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.

"What did they mean by that? They mean torture; they mean rendition, these kinds of things. And this is what's going on.

"And when the director is marching down the vice president to defend torture,
and when the oversight committees are completely asleep,
there's no other recourse than for a person like Mary to have the guts to say,
"Yes, I'll probably get caught on this, but I'll do it anyway.""

US before? During Vietnam?

THE MAJORITY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!!!! :hi:

:hi:

:toast:

:kick:

in his quiet way-- too good not to share. :hi:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/05/04.html#a8164

yeah Ray.