My Democratic Underground Wal Mart/ Home Depot challenge

Atticus Finch- "If you just learn a single trick, Scout, you'll get along a lot better with all kinds of folks. You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view... Until you climb inside of his skin and walk around in it."



I figured this would be a fun assignment for the board. I also think it would make for a great *Sticky* thread. It's something to get people to think outside of the box and perhaps walk around in anothers shoes. Maybe it should be called "The Atticus Finch Project". Besides, I think what America needs is a little wisdom from Atticus Finch right now.

From time to time I think we are all guilty of being a little selfish in out politics.

My challenge is this;

I would love for DUers to go out there and fill out applications at Wal-Marts and Home Depots. Not because I want you to work there but because I want you to get a glimpse at what many "non-voters" and "centrists" experience in their daily lives.

I'd like to see people report back on what the experience was like. Perhaps there is something to the experience that changes your political views?

Perhaps you will also understand why the non-voter doesnt vote!!!!!! There were about 70,000,000 of them in the last election. We all know that poor people in general don't vote. I would like for some members of this board to see why.

...or go through the whole employment process?

Should I be honest on the application, or is there a "typical employee" I'm supposed to be emulating?

I want many people here to understand the experiences of those that have very few choices in life.

Your name, ph# and addy don't have to be yours. They can be made up.

It's the experience and your voice on it that I want to hear.

I'm an air traffic controller. I make $130k+/year. There's absolutely NO reason I'd seek employment at a WalMart. "Just being myself" won't work, I don't think.

I'm trying to work with your experiment, but I think I'm going to have a hard time unless I play a part. Is that permissible?

Those of us from your income bracket are the ones I'd love to see attempt this. The goal isn't to get hired. It's the experience!!!!!!



You can lie about your job experiences.

I never shop there, but I'd be happy to submit an application...

...any particular persona you'd like me to represent?

I recently filled out an application to Home Depot. It was a few months back.

I'll relay that esperience soon as well.

If you want to know about poor people and their views on voting, why don't you visit your city's poor neighborhood(if you know where it is)and talk to the people? Do a survey on who votes and who doesn't.

I find them absolutely dehumanizing.

Also, there are none of them within 10 miles of my house (Marin County, CA) and I don't drive.

:hi: I live in Marin, also.

I do live in Tiburon.

If you are ever in the immediate area, let us know (we don't get out much).

too many in the past promised them the world and abused their trust. They don't vote precisely because they either don't care anymore or are too bitter to trust a damn politician. It's also pretty difficult to learn about politics when you're too damn busy trying to pay the ever growing bills with an ever shrinking wage.

The best way to make a person care is to make the fight their fight, but watching what happens hundreds or thousands of miles away in the national capital isn't exactly making it "their fight." If there is one criticism I have of representative forms of government, it is that you are relegated to an indirect role in the course of a nation. You choose someone else to make decisions for you, and he either does what you want him to do, or he screws you over, and you choose a new guy and go through the same game again.

There's a bit of a detachment there, but if people were, for instance, given the power to pass laws, challenge legislative actions, recall legislators, or recall the president through petitions, it might help to increase participation. Cheering for or against politicians who pass a piece of legislation isn't the same as having a voice in the crafting of that legislation as well.

The only time they care is when they are sucked into the matter directly. An example is a military draft. That'll get political participation up in a hurry as it is clear that there is a personal stake in it. That doesn't happen when you talk about things like social philosophy or marginal changes to the labyrinthian tax code, but it happens when you talk about paying the damn bills at the end of the month.

A government fine (like they do in Australia) would be a nice kick in the ass for all of these non-voters (whom I think are the moral equivalent of Bush voters, because they let him win).

And yes, we need to make election day a national holiday.

I want people to try this experiment.

What's may seem important to you takes a different meaning when it's applyed to others!!! We all experience history differently.

Try the experiment.

You'll understand why they don't vote.

I'm not rich, not middle class, so I guess that makes me poor. I happen to vote. I kind of see where you're coming from, that being poor can lead to hopelessness. However, most of the people I know don't fall into the upper income brackets either and they vote.

I kind of took offense to your post about going to work at Wal Mart to see how poor people feel. Not everyone that works at Wal Mart is dirt poor. More and more people in this country are having to take jobs at stores like WM and Home Depot because of the economy and outsourcing. If anything, we want to vote so that we can get people in charge who care about us.

What keeps people home on Election Day is apathy. They don't care, they think that their vote won't make a difference. Apathy knows no income bracket.

I lived in and out of group homes until I was 20.

I've gone to school w/o any shoes on.

I've gone many a winters without a jacket.

I also slept outside many a nights struggeling my way through college.

I was one of those people you claim I offend. Apathy has very little to do with it. These people are not apathetic and there are many reasons why they stay home. Some of my post memorable times working in these places were when we got the rare opportunity to talk politics!!!!!!!

We also talked a lot of the insulting practices that goes on in these places and why nobody looked out for us. I was young at the time and very naive on some points (Yet one of my more ridiculous memories was when I worked at the Boston Stock Exchange as a security guard. Some lady who worked in the area, I think for fidelity, was trying to get me to invest. I was shocked to find out she was a Democrat).


I'll explain more of those at another time.

I now spend my time working with the poor. I try as much as possible to talk to them about politics and the current state of affairs. I probably do a lot more listening than I do talking. It's interesting that some views have not changed from when I went through the experience.

I work in retail and I probably make less than most Wal-Mart employees. I vote. What are you trying to say with this idea? I filled out applications at places like Wal-Mart to get a job, not to somehow gain an epiphany on why people (who you've gone out of your way to explain are so different from you or us or whoever you want to take part in this thing) don't vote. I think you're severely misinformed. The people who don't vote are the ones who don't care, are too self-involved, are uninformed. None of that has to do with tax brackets. Do you think Paris Hilton voted?

Oh, and if a bunch of people who don't want jobs fill out applications it makes it harder for the people who really need them to get them.

that are "self involved", "don't care" and "uninformed".

There are many people that don't vote, that are and are not, both of those things.

I invite you to write about your experiences economically. Sometimes we also suffer from assuming that other people know what we know.

I am curiuous to see your answers to these questions;

1) Do you think those that work in retail/ Wal Mart/Home Depot are asked to put their issues aside more than those that are upper middle class in our political system? What issues that are missing would you like to see most addressed?

2) Do you experience Union Busting at your job?

3) When you filled out your application, were there any questions asked as to whether or not you received welfare in the past?

4)Were you asked to fill out a "personality test" or anything of the like? What questions did they ask on it and which ones stuck out the most?

5) What's your opinion on "Taft Hartly" and "right to work states"?

I grew up in what would be considered a poor family.

I worked minimum wage jobs, dish washer jobs, factory jobs, cement jobs, retail jobs. Worked my way through college and am now fortunate enough to have a good paying white collar job.

If you are interested, here is my take on your questions:

1) Do you think those that work in retail/ Wal Mart/Home Depot are asked to put their issues aside more than those that are upper middle class in our political system?
No. People talk politics in every job and business that I have ever worked. The only difference is the opportunity that the structure of the job allows. For instance, white collar workers have plenty of flexibility to chat for a few minutes whenever they want to. When I worked in either the factory or in the restaurant, work was pretty much constant and there wasn't much opportunity for chatting with co-workers. It wasn't company policy that we couldn't talk, there simply wasn't much opportunity.

What issues that are missing would you like to see most addressed?
Again, there was no restraint on topics at any of the blue collar jobs I have held. Only limitation was on opportunity due to the job structure.

2) Do you experience Union Busting at your job?
No. The unions pretty much killed themselves in the 80's.

3) When you filled out your application, were there any questions asked as to whether or not you received welfare in the past? Never.

4) Were you asked to fill out a "personality test" or anything of the like? What questions did they ask on it and which ones stuck out the most? Never.

5) What's your opinion on "Taft Hartly" and "right to work states"?
I live in a 'right to work' state. At least here, people have a choice on whether to join the union or not. I used to live in Illinois which is not a 'right to work' state. I had a big problem with being forced to join a union to hold a job. If the unions were more affective, you wouldn't need a law to force people to join.

Both were for Grocery stores. They were pretty hilarious. A computer voice asking me when the last time I used Crystal Meth was.

And I live in a right to work state, also. I don't know how, if at all it has affected me. I do work for a union occasionally, IATSE, and I've had a pretty good experience with them.

This is the stuff we should air here!!!!!

I did the application for home Depot and was asked all sorts of bizzarre and proping questions. I wouldnt even politely phraze it as a "personality test"

I was asked my opinion on unions and given a multiple choice response.

They asked me if I would turn in a fellow employee for stealing. I was asked this about three different times. One of the questions being, "If you felt you were being underpaid, would you excuse someone for stealing an itme that cost 50 cents."

I think this stuff should be discussed here and I am curious about others reactions to these questions. Keep in mind that people working these jobs are powerless to speak out against them becuase of fear.

The Home Depot questionaire is one I'd hardly consider "psychological" but ptobing.

I recently found some interesting stuff on right to work laws as well. Did you ever see the salary difffences between right to work states and non right to work states? It's about 72 dollars a week.

Right to work laws are really union busting laws.
I'll post them when I get a chance.

the only question i remember is: "would you turn in a family member if you knew they were stealing?"

:rofl:

Excellent way to make a point.

Welcome to DU!

vote because they don't believe (and have no reason to believe) that it will make much/any difference, or that their input will have any effect on the game. Why do they think that? Years of experience has proven to them that it's true.

I've voted in every election and for every state and federal office since I turned 18, and only in one or two races did my candidate have a snowball's chance in hell of winning. I'm still glad I voted, because its important for the opposition to show up, but I knew plenty of people who didn't, and not because they didn't care or were too self-involved or were uninformed. If I'd taken that attitude towards them, I never would have convinced several of them to start showing up.

Anyway, welcome to DU Tunkamerica :hi:

So the affluent can "experience" life in jail.

:eyes:

Contrary to what you may believe, most people here do indeed have experience applying for minimum wage work. As a matter of fact, I'm embarking upon that particular adventure yet again tomorrow.

I worked two part time, minimum wage jobs because I couldn't find a single full time gig. I didn't have any health care. I had to work over 60 hours a week some times.

Do I have to live through all that again, just to (re-)earn my street cred?

that some people assume their world is the real world and that they know how the other half lives. I get that a lot on here. "telecommute" "pretend to be poor for a day" "buy a super-expensive hybrid car" live next door to where you work" etc.

It just gets old telling people that these things, while nice thoughts, actually make me, and i assume a few others, feel "a little less than equal" for not having the means to afford this liberal lifestyle.

And personally this idea to pretend to be poor is to me in poor taste and slightly condescending.

give anyone a glimpse "at what many "non-voters" and "centrists" experience in their daily lives"?

it sounds insulting to the people who work in those jobs that i would get a freakin clue about them simply by applying for the job they have.

maybe if i just sit here and post about them i can get a clue about them too.


maybe if i donate to my local homeless shelter, or food pantry i'll get a "glimpse" as to how those people experience their daily lives


BUT I REALLY DOUBT IT.

applying for a job at a superstore isn't going to give anyone else a taste of what others have to go through. and i think it's terribly naive or condescending to imply that we can experience that by simply looking at their lives for a moment.


besides, if you're trying to develop a compassion for others within people--why not start with the republican party. i see less compassion there than i do here. here--in my opinion--you're preaching to the choir.

of course they don't want unions at maomart--who doesn't know that by now? and if you didn't know then how would you find out by simply applying for a job there? of course they ask way too many personal things on job apps.

if you want to make a difference, make a point then here is what i would suggest:

1. encourage a reporter to get a job at walmart and do an expose on employment conditions, get to know the people they work with and write about that

2. go into a walmart store wearing a tshirt that boldly and clearly says: UNIONIZE NOW!! and see what happens after you "shop" and end up buying a pack of gum (or nothing) (a little social psychology experiment)

i worked in retail for awhile and didn't get a feel for shit by simply applying for the job.

"it sounds insulting to the people who work in those jobs that i would get a freakin clue about them simply by applying for the job they have.

maybe if i just sit here and post about them i can get a clue about them too.


maybe if i donate to my local homeless shelter, or food pantry i'll get a "glimpse" as to how those people experience their daily lives


BUT I REALLY DOUBT IT."

You wanna know who I have the biggest fights with on this issue?

DEMOCRATS!!!!

The Republicans I talk to know about this, they just don't give a crap. Democrats on the other, the ones who are supposed to FOR the working class, are the hardest to budge on this issue. THe application process alone is where they seem be missing some key elements to their "pro labor" position.

And you talking of writing a letter to the media to get them to cover it. They won't and for obvious reasons!!!!! Yet there are people writing books about it as well. Whether or not anyone had read them I don't know. One thing I know for sure is that the poor and the working poor are not a priority in this country.

As for unionizing these companies nobody has even gotten into the discussion at the what that will take. That is part of the reason why I am challenging others to see what the application process is like. One thing I am most certain of is that fact that these changes won't come by propping up more Democrats into the system who have done little of nothing to do away with "Taft Hartly" and "Right to Work States". Those issues are not even on the ballot.

Rights in the country are not given, they are taken!!!!!! The PATRIOT ACT is nothing new in this country as we have also seen "The Espionage Act" and "The Sedition Act". All of these were implemented with one goal in mind, to put a stop to the rabble rousers in the labor movement. THe Espionage Act is from a time that we like to lable as "The Progressive Era". It was signed by a Democrat president, Woodrow Wilson!!!!!!

THe Democratic party has a history of an anti labor past just as well as the Republican Party does!!! Take a look at the Ludlow Massacre and the list of reforms passed by Bill Clinton. Yet you act as if I am preaching to the quire. The day I posted this, somone on this board tryed to convince me that Americans favor NAFTA/CAFTA!!!!!

WHen I was a slave to these kinds of Corporations I would have felt honored if someone took the time out of their day to see what the application process alone was like!!!!!! The biggest question I had as well as my fellow employess was, "Where are the Democrats?"

"Where is out representation?"

"Where are the union organizers?"

Someone here mentioned "hopeless" as a term to describe this situation. How about "Helpless"!!!!!!!

Unionizing the Wal Marts and Home Depots is going to take more than the legilature (Who favor the wealthy and do just enough to pacify everyone else). It's going to take work on the outside by regular citizens in their communities as well. The start of that is getting people to write about it!!!!!!

Writing (pamphletting) has been crucial to every movement in this country.

That thought still brings up bile. Sorry, strayed off topic.

nt