Dean is going to continue reaching out to the Christian community.

He has said that since before he was chairman. He has said it often since. It is going to happen, we might as well get used to it. I think that is what is going on with McCain as well...reaching out.

Do I like it? Not especially, but it is going to happen whether I like it or not. I don't like mixing politics and religion, but I don't mind reaching across the aisle at times.

I remember this from Wonkette in February...thinking what the heck? Then it finally occurred to a lot of us...strategy. This is not a pretty situation we have in this country now, and maybe the usual things won't work.

Strategy?


Anyway here is only one of the times Dean has made it clear he is going to reach out to the evangelical community. He may not get it very right at first, it may take a while. I read that Robertson did say he was appreciative he tried. A neighbor saw it said Dean looked like a very nice man though he was a Democrat. (can't win em all)So, who knows. It may eventually make some differences.

Here is one interview from last year where he made it clear he would continue to do this. I try to step back and look at where we are now and what we have to do to get back to where we were then. I try to put the things away that annoy me at least until November; because I think we are in danger in this country of things we don't yet realize.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june05/dean_6-22.html

... why was he on the 700 Club?

Is there a connection between the 700 Club and Christianity? If so, I fail to see what it is ...

My parents listened to that show when they were alive. They did not like Robertson, but they still found value in it. Don't be so judging of all of the people who watch.

... I was talking about the people who run the damned thing. Tell me THEY are Christians when they espouse the virtues of a president who embraces torture, lies a country into war that drains social programs and kills and maims thousands, etc.

the more they will call into question the assumptions that lie behind the Republican view of the world. It will take some repetition.

Dean has the ability to cut through political platitudes and speak to people's hearts and minds. Most Democratic politicians don't. And he's speaking out at exactly the right time, when conservatives are having greater and greater difficulty reconciling their beliefs with political reality.

Dean's 50-state effort is a long-term strategy. I fail to see why it qualifies as nose-picking.

Thanks for getting it.

No way we are going to win utah or oklahoma. They are lost. Gone. Don't waste the money. In the presidential election, with the electoral college, they are a waste of time and money.
Going on the 700 Club or speaking at Falwell's fake university is also a waste of time and money. It just gives these liars credibility.
What happened with your neighbor is indicative. Their mindset is cast in stone.
The party will not win by being mealy-mouthed or trying to be all things to all people. They have to stand for something and be unequivocal. They can't glide over the tough issues. They need to have a position, explain it, and stick with it. Deans comments here are mushy, meaningless, and unconvincing to all.

I don't think we should be judging who is and who isn't. I have been surprised so much lately at how many I thought were not true to the faith...actually are good honest people of real faith.

There is a danger in this country. It is a theocrat, dominionist danger. They are a threat to our democracy and freedom. They are attempting to force their luddite beliefs on the rest of us. They are dangerously irrational. They do not believe in the ideals of fairness and separation of church and state that this nation was founded on. They do not believe in civil rights for me. There is no hope of finding common ground with them.

You can't do away with them, just joking. Ignoring them doesn't work. Many of them are very good people after all, just haven't seen the other side of things at all.

Maybe that is why Dean and perhaps McCain are risking some cred and taking a chance. Just thinking out loud.

McCain isn't risking anything. In order to get the Republican nomination he HAS to pander to the likes of Falwell and Robertson. They have a stranglehold on that party. And I don't want to give them a stranglehold on ours.
Dean hopes to siphon some votes off. I think he's being naive. As I've said the Democrats are the majority party and we've done that without the fundies. The only reason the Republicans are in power is because they've gerrymandered districts in certain states like DeLay did in Texas and because of the electoral college. They've done this by being cynical, deceptive and devisive. The American people need to see that. Perhaps the are slowly waking up to that. But if our leaders waffle about the differences it won't help our cause.

''I don't think that most Democratic officeholders have been supportive of gay marriage, but I think we are supportive of rights for every single American. ''

i can probably get that much from a pro-choice republican.

more it tells me that he did not mis-speak on the 700 club -- he said what he meant.

this particular approach to christians is the worst kind of triangulation.

dean knows damn well that these kid of statements could get some gay voters to sit 06 out -- those most active and informed.

the hope is to make up for those lost votes somewhere else.

this is a clintonesque formulation -- as intrepreted by dean.


how about it's unchristian to act out of hate for perfectly normal people i.e. gay folk -- period.

how about hackett's approach -- to be against gay marriage is unamerican.

but please understand -- gay activism made the dem party come to us --- not the other way around.

we demanded our rights -- still don't have them -- but what we've got -- we did it on our own.

and in the process have raised a lot of money for the party and individuals -- where's the checks from the fundies?

As ruggerson said last night, don't piss us off in the hopes of gaining some fundie votes.

Anyway, the party doesn't need the fundie vote. The majority of Americans are Democrats. We just need to get them out to vote. And that won't happen by trying to be all things to all people. Trying to get a few crackers and goombahs to vote risks the coalition that is the Democratic party.

I don't think it is pandering. I think we are in a serious danger in this country. People have not been hearing real truth. Please read parts of the OP again.

If you don't want to vote Democratic, then don't. I posted a nice thread, I hoped it would not turn into a flamefest. So be it.

I've been voting Democratic since 1974. And I expect they party to stand by the ideals that I've voted for.

Anyone can change, some will, some won't. We all have our values.

and you're right there is danger to this country --

and no one disagrees with a fifty state strategy.

i have been supportive of dean in the past -- but this tears it.

and i'm sorry you can't see this from a gay perspective -- but it's not surprising.

i've seen the threads where people just out and out say it's not time for our rights.

this is not dissimilar to that.

this was whoreish triangulation -- but this too will pass.

and it will be with or without gay folk on board.

your indifference phases me not in the least.

One of our daughters is gay. I am not being indifferent.

we can still be fired from a job for being gay.

we can still be denied housing -- depending on where you are.

i have been around long enough to have attended fund raisers for dems -- and be in on organizing fund raisers for dems.

i've seen big bucks raised for them --

relegating us to a state by state death{re: marriage} is not a solution.

it's not working for roe v wade is it?

There have been endless threads that are the same or closely related to the topic in this one. Positions are hardened on all sides and tempers are still hot. To continue it now is to either pour gasoline on a mercifully dying ember or to pick the scab to make it bleed again.

You are a Dean partisan. We all get that. And I commend you on your fierce and undying loyalty to him.

But you are NOT helping him here. Not one bit.

Stop it and kill this thread with all the neglect it deserves. The entire community will be the better for it.

And I say that as one who is on **your** side of this particular mini-point.

We have a gay daughter. We have our own feeling as about Christian communities being made fun of here.

I did what you said. This was not Dean partisan ship. It was about my country and the dangers.

With various groups to be sure it is ok.

but as I said, you're not helping your guy one bit.

It was a well-thought out post about where we are going to go most likely. I am so sorry you take everything that way. I post some pretty decent stuff. When someone doesn't like it they say I am hurting "my guy". I recognize the tactic. But I was looking ahead on this issue, not trying to push "my guy." I was thinking out loud.

Anyway I requested it be deleted not locked, just as you said.

I will be careful in the future not to bring up controversial subjects.

and you fool NOBODY who has observed you, over time, be stating otherwise. your hero Dean appeared on right wing christian loon Pat Robertson's 700 club and you try to spin that the critics of Dean's appearance and misstatements are engaging in "Christian bashing".

I accept Dean's mea culpa or whatever and have moved on. I am not lashing out at him or the DEM party and plan to vote straight DEM like I always do but YOU need to give this a rest because it is beginning to seem you truly enjoy stirring the shit and then playing the poor abused martyr.

However, calling the people in the 700 club names is wrong. I have not seen this much hatred here before toward that group.

I can't help what you think of me, I try to be fair. I asked that it be locked or deleted.

Just happens to coincide with Dean's appearance on the 700 Club, isn't it?

I mean, if madfloridian had been making 5 posts a day about the need to be tolerant of fundamentalist Christian views BEFORE Dean's 700 Club appearance, I sure missed them.

I did not know the hatred was this strong toward that group of people. I really did not. How's that internship going?

Hmm, suddenly, everyone who points out that the 700 Club is nothing but a showcase for hatemonger Pat Robertson and his evil views is intolerant, according to you. Excuse the hell out of me? If Dean gives an interview on James Dobson's Focus on the Family radio show, I suppose you'll start defending the hell out of Focus on the Family, too? What if he speaks to a National Right to Life representative about how Democrats and Republicans can compromise on abortion? What would you do then, hmm? Continue to defend right-wing Christians who don't believe in women's right to determine their own body? I mean, all you've been doing the past two days is telling people to "respect" fundamentalist Christian opinions about gay rights. Well, how about it, then? Do you "respect" fundamentalist Christian views about abortion? Do you give them a little leeway, since they really do believe that life begins at conception? Because here's a clue: you can't pick and choose which fundamentalist beliefs you're going to respect. If you're so damn determined to "respect" the opinions of fundamentalists who think gay people shouldn't marry because homosexuality is a sin, then you have to respect their views on abortion and the beginning of life, too. Can't have it both ways.

Of course, that means you'll have to stop pretending that abortion is your big pet issue, and you'll have to stop complaining about people like Bob Casey. I mean, you know he's pro-life because he's Catholic, right? You're really into respecting people's religious beliefs, or so you've claimed the past couple of days, so I fully expect you to stop complaining about Bob Casey so much and start respecting his Catholic faith. Since you have had this sudden epiphany and you've become DU's biggest champion of conservative Christians, and all. Which I'm sure has nothing at all to do with Dean's ill-advised appearance on the 700 Club. I mean, I'm sure it's pure coincidence, and all. Because I'm sure your principles are not entirely based on whatever Dean is saying and doing at the current moment.

I did not say I liked it. Is there an effort to intimidate me after I said I asked it be deleted or locked.

I think you know better.

The people in the 700 club are not all evil, and I think we make a mistake by assuming so. Robertson is terrible, but I know people who watch it. They don't like him either.

This is sad. I have requested it be locked so you guys would not keep misreading what I posted about strategy I don't especially like.

I will go away for a while.

Locking at request of original poster.

Thank you,
Julie
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