I am conservative

in many ways.

conservative 1.adj.<LL. conservativus 1. conserving or tending to conserve: preservative 2. tending to preserve established traditions or institutions and to resist any changes in these. (the other definitions refer to Judaism and Canada's Conservative Party so are sort of inapplicable )

I am a Constitutional conservative and I believe that it has served us well for nearly 229 years and that the 1st and 4th amendment have insured greater tolerance, a lively national discussion, individual freedom and dignity for all but 5&1/2 of those most recent years. I don't believe the Constitution should ever be overlooked, minimized, or amended to discriminate against people of a sexual orientation other than mine. I'm conservative in terms of my judgment of those of that orientation as well as those with differing beliefs and or ethnicity. I think our Constitution should be preserved regardless of threats of "terror" real or imagined.

. . .am conservative about the strict adherence to the rule of law, habeas corpus, the Geneva Conventions, and that launching pre-emptive wars without an extremely provable and legitimate casus belli and only after honest diplomacy and compromise is thoroughly exhausted is illegal. I believe instances of armed combat are generally overwhelmingly avoidable. I believe laws long established should be preserved and that no one should feel they are above them ever since the Magna Carta.

. . .am conservative about our need to reestablish adherence to international nuclear proliferation treaties established over the last several decades.

. . . am conservative about accountability of government expenditures and feel that no bid contracts are completely extravagant, short sighted, unaffordable, outrageously wasteful, and qualify as thievery. I am conservative in that I think surpluses are good and deficits are not so.

. . . am conservative about our voting rights and the absolute need for reliability in our voting procedures and that our country's democracy hinges solely on "one person: one vote" and that all our votes be tabulated within ethical, accurate, measurable, and accountable standards. I also believe exit polls are an essential componant in our elections.

. . .am conservative about the maintenance of environmental standards established over the past 3 decades though now are all too often ignored or rolled back.

. . .am conservative about how much influence corporate lobbies should have on politicians, legislation, and elections.

I remember Jon Stewart saying in late '00." We don't have liberals and conservatives anymore. We have moderates and extremists."

Of course in many other regards I'm really in fact a bleeding heart liberal. Though I don't necessarily believe that all problems are remedied by throwing money at them especially in the face of rampant corruption and blatant incompetence.

The label of "tax and spend" Democrats is completely absurd when in essence that's what most governments do. Whereas the Neocons apparently just prefer to "loot and waste."

In so many ways these blanket labels are not reflective of any complex individuals who are still capable of critical thinking. The demonization of liberalism coupled with the disingenuousness of the ruse of the Neocons' regressive, wasteful, destructive, and disastrous policies masquerading as anything even remotely conservative just really, really, really, really irks me.

I've posted this line before because the myth that this country is only comprised of two points of view is a totally divisive misrepresentation

If the progressive movement could just focus on the basic issues of Constitutional restoration, upholding the rule of law, budgetary solvency, and common sense and not get derailed by "wedge issues" of gay marriage, a national language (???), immigration, the Star Spangled Anthem en espanol, flag burning, and such silliness it may just have tremendous unifying appeal to disgruntled members from the two major parties to say nothing of those who don't align themselves with either party.

Beyond the rigidity suggested in the definition of conservatism. . .riddle me this. . .what sorts of structures are capable of containing the inevitable transformations necessary for growth. . . ?

but I was really hoping I'd get you to curse me out as only you can do :)

It is pathetic that people are voting for selfishness and hatred and calling it conservative. But we live in a world were words have become so twisted that reality has become confusing.

technique has been fabulously successful for the Bush administration, with the pundits doing their part in selling it to the masses.

Great post -- K&R.

It was probably around the time of the "Clear Skies" or the "Healthy Forests" acts.

He called it "disingenuous nomenclature" and you're right the * administration has been deceitfully masterful at it.

In the first few months of '01 as I sat with my gaping jaw watching the Sunday Morning snooze shows and knew they were lieing repeating the same BS ad nauseum I made up a far dumber term for it . . ."oligarchical hypnogoguery."

I also like what Jesse "the body" Venture said around that same time, "I'm a fiscal conservative and a social liberal."

a conservative? As long as I don't have to listen to Rush...
Great post!

Or you could just be another reasonable human being. Rush may indeed threaten that wondrous virtue so please don't.

Very thought-provoking and intelligent.

:applause:

K&R

The middle of the roaders who are disgusted with W Inc. are disgustwed for the same reasons we are, just slower on the uptake.

We don't need to move to the center--we have to strengthen our center, that is, where we are strongest, as progressives.

Then the balance will restore itself.

Brilliant again, sister. Wow.

I firmly believe there is far more that unites us than divides us despite the corporate media's obsession with espousing intractable dualism. I fully agree with you about strengthening our center as progressives instead of pandering to the so called consensual reality's lowest common denomenator.

I'm such an idealistic dreamer I'd love to see a 12 party system though. :)

As to submitting an LTTE thanks for the encouragement but I'm for some strange reason really hesitant to do so. I live in probably the bluest of states so it wouldn't really convert many. I'll give the thought some deeper consideration though.

out of state.

We have a great chance to defeat Bushbot Kyl, so if you are so inclined, you might turn a few moderate heads our way.

I understand your feelings though--no pressure. I just love to see brilliant writing shared!

feel free to submit it and just credit DU or a Northeastern friend or yourself. Since there's really no such thing as intellectual property on the web any way I wouldn't mind at all. Thanks for the feedback.

I am a conservative, too!

But known as a liberal, tree hugging, environmentalist. What are yall doing to me?

The difference being that in the liberal sense, people should be free to live their lives without government interference - no wait, that's conservative too. Damn.

I'll nefariously corrupt the whole bloody lot of you with e-gads . . .common sense.

No seriously though I feel we're all such a wonderous mish mash of various and fascinating leanings. That used to be one of the many things that made our country great and enviable to the entire world.

That's the whole point of why I truly resent being smooshed into two lousy stupidly limiting catagories when diversity is truly in essence the absolute spice of life.

Divide and conquer is just so damned predictably tiresome and a total yawn fest.

Ya know. . .???

Never thought it could happen here. Oh well. Can't last for much longer I swear.

it is truly remarkable that those who profess adherence to the Constitution are labeled as lefties or progressives or extremists and those who allow big money and big corporations to buy legislation and policy are somehow seen as conservatives ...

perhaps we have strayed so far from the Founders' vision that it has indeed become revolutionary to call for what they once did ...

the only disagreement i have with your post is on labeling gay marriage as a "wedge issue" ... here, i think we have to be very careful ...

it may be true, as you suggest, that we should not allow any issue to "derail" us ... but there can be no compromise in the struggle for full human equality ... we can disagree about timing and tactics but Democrats as a party cannot, and should not, ever dismiss full equality as an objective ...

put in a qualifier to say that although all those issues I reduce to silliness are of incredible import to those whose lives are unfairly directly impacted (gays and immigrants especially) they influence a relatively small percentage of the greater whole. I had intended to add that caveat but the time for editing was soon to expire and I didn't make it all the way through a final edit.

On a lesser scale it's sorta akin to the runaway bride or missing blondes sensational so called journalism. Though those issues are of monumental significance to those directly impacted, for the collective greater good . . .election fraud looms so-o-o much larger and gets scarcely a mention.

I just feel these "wedge" issues are routinely crammed down our throats on a weekly basis by totally Machiavellian (aka Rovian) design. The only way we can create a greater sense of unity is to not respond in a polarizing manner, keep things in perspective, and be ever mindful and vigilant that our very Constitution is at risk as are so many other things. Meanwhile our legislators struggle over something as absurd as declaration of a national language when that's fairly self evident and we could be discussing matters of war and peace as well as the life and well being of the vast majority.

If someone is deeply compelled to burn a flag in protest though, it's always baffled me that it qualified as a freedom of speech issue when it might really more accurately qualify as desecration of federal property in a way.

My spirituality prohibits idolatry (flag worship ???) anyway even though my kid was born on Flag Day so it kinda bugs me. But it certainly is a victimless crime. One that may just be good transformative magic. Who knows?

Here's an excerpt from some other writing. . .

"For some strange reason, I spent a good deal of time on July 4, 2003
rereading and amending the Declaration of Independence for current times. http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document

I dissected it line by line and it amazed me how similarly the complaints of the Colonists against King George, paralleled almost identically the gripes of all progressives about the most incurious George Dubious. Perhaps I'll post that amended version for upcoming 230 anniversary of it's signing."

Truly might be time for a tea party indeed. But what would be biodegradable and symbolic to chuck into the sea.

from one tree hugger to another :)

:thumbsup: :hi:

Don't give a crap what we call ourselves as long as that parchment called a Constitution means something to the public and those we elect to represent us and defend same.

We'll take a giant leap forward WHEN we unite and resume building bridges and stop building walls.

Cheers : )

Carl
Sheeler for US Senate (D-RI)
www.carlsheeler.com

Case in point during this weekend an alliance of dozen plus anti-war and peace groups as well as 120 pastors of Christian churches in thestate have agreed to support and assist my candidacy despite have a sixth of the funds of the "ultimate insider". Does Patriotism, vision and compassion have someting to do with it? Does it matter if you're a conservative or liberal if it brings about a better future now and for our kids?

and best to you my friend. Glad you had a great event and even more support. Keep it coming dear. And thanks.

best dear.

It touches on so many principles that people like me live by. Conservatism is not, by definition, all bad. But you can turn chocolate cake into a demon if you never point out that it tastes good, but only show the world the calories!!!

... back when my post count was quite low - probably under 500 - I posted something very similar in intent and tone ..... and got my ass chased across DU with napalm.

I still believe what I believed when I posted it. Its comforting and affirming to know I'm not alone.

The flames on me were framed around use of the word 'conservative'.

The word has various connotations. Your post most eloquently makes use of one of them.

<edit to fix title .... 'thing' was misspelled 'thong' ...... did'nt wanna have my response yanked, yanno! :) >

am thrilled and honored to have a response from you.

Sorry you got flamed before. But it's all a matter of context isn't it?

Loved your feisty "Listen Up" thread from a couple days ago!!! Keep it up love.

thank you.

"loot and waste Neocons" is a phrase for the ages.

Brava!

I've seen it several times. I see Nixon, Reagan, and Junior. Who's the toothy guy between Junior and St Ronald?

It's a crappy picture of him, but all I had on hand when I fired up Photoshop.

Ironically, the fact that he's not recognizable sorta echoes his stature as an ex-president: anonymous and forgettable. Little did we realize he'd seem like a great statesman compared with his hell-spawn child...

crappy picture, but your interpretive analysis/rationalization for its use is perfect!

:thumbsup:

:applause: :applause: :applause:

perhaps we're now in the mutual admiration society. :)

Always love your stuff.

and kudos and thanks.

Yeah, I want to conserve all the things you want to conserve. And I can think of a few more items: air, water, soil, forests, mountains, America's agriculture, America's industry, America's science and education, America's "soft power," America's international reputation as a good guy...

I hope it's recoverable. Concerning that last, I'm reminded of founding father Benjamin Franklin, who said: "Glass, china, and reputation are easily cracked, and never well mended."

I also like the notion above that the Bushies misname everything. In a related philosophical screwup, they also argue most of their ideas backward, specifically causality. They claim "we" have no faith, and that our cynicism causes all our problems-- when of course people really get cynical when they see how shit happens. They think wealth engenders that combination of energy, insight and prudence that makes entrepreneurs; in fact it's the productive exercise of those virtues that create the wealth. Maybe the biggest problem with this regime is that a fool and his money aren't parted soon enough... and inherited wealth is one of the few things they want to conserve.

but not in the specific way in which you so eloquently did.

That's a fantastic quotation from Ben Franklin which I had not heard mention of before. So thanks.

As to the issue of causality. . .what drives me bonkers is that issue in regards to the causality of "terror terror terrorism."

I had a discussion last week with someone who works in one of the so-called "intelligence" agencies.

That person was mentioning the need for security in reference to the NSA spying on us. I said "we'd be a heck of a lot more secure if we stopped pissing off the rest of the world so much." That person just nodded.

I would further that beyond protecting their inherited wealth, they want to fully conserve their ability to manipulate and obfuscate the obvious truth of their own illegitimacy and self serving incompetance. IMHO.

The idea that the best security would be for America to act less insensitive and arbitrary should be obvious to everybody, but apparently it isn't.

Also the motivations of the criminal cabal running things-- saving their asses is possibly the best they can hope for by now. (And better than they deserve.)

Moreover, I want to amplify my earlier remarks (as well as kick a worthy thread) but I'm not quite sure how to say what I want to say, so please bear with me here.

I'm too well aware of the way conservatism emerges as the political expression of old-fart-ism or nostalgia. This is not (quite) what I think I'm feeling. It's like the old joke about the text "Kids these days, they don't respect their elders, and their music sounds like a bunch of noise!" Who was it that first wrote that? And the joke is, if you allow for a certain poetic license in translation, Plato. Wanting things to be like the good old days is something all of us of a certain age are subject to.

But as it happens, the last few novels I've read have been that species of chick-lit where the heroine, of a certain age, looks back at her life and at certain events and decisions which at the time seemed like big important declarations of independence, then came to be seen as mistakes, and finally in the warm and fuzzy wrap-up they simply became stepping stones in becoming the person she now accepts that she is. But what I've been most interested in in the books is the subtle indicators of social change. Being chick-lit, there's a lot of domestic chore stuff being discussed, and it's interesting to see how the girl of one era thinks nothing of chopping onions, boiling potatoes, peeling carrots, and all the other tasks necessary to make beef stew, which the woman she grows to be assumes that a frozen dinner in the microwave will simulate.

It's the beef stew that I want to conserve. (Do you know there's an organization called Slow Food, devoted to appreciating food prepared with craftsmanship and attention and care? And what they oppose is the unhealthy and slapdash but increasingly profitable concepts of fast food.)

And not simply the stew, and certainly not the social constraints that assumed that the housewife would always be available-- and expected-- to cook the stew, and bake a cake from scratch, and iron the shirts and darn the socks, et home ec cetera.

But I miss a world in which it isn't a problem to block out the time you need to do something like cook a stew. I miss a world in which it's not assumed that when you set out to cook a stew, you're supposed to be grateful for every little time-saving tweak, for which reason the supermarket will happily sell you your beef trimmed and pre-cubed for your convenience and hope you won't notice or care how much more it costs per pound than the brisket of your youth.

I think the simple version of what I'm trying to say is, I miss being something other than an economic unit in the vast majority of my interactions with the outside world.

I want to conserve what it's like to *not* be someone that marketeers target, slicing and dicing their demographic analyses ever finer until they think they have a handle on exactly what motivates me, in order to sell me stuff I don't need, or to "improve" the products I do need until they hit on the combination that convinces me to pay twice as much, so they can then take the original version out of production.

I want to conserve not being alienated from the sources of stuff. When I was a kid, my dad once took me to Hershey, Pennsylvania, where the candy company of the same name is based. Back then you could tour the plant, and see the big machines (called "conches," I forget why) where they blend the various extracts from the cacao plant back together to make chocolate as we know it. Later I returned as a grownup-- and got a substantially different tour, where I sat in a goofy little cart and watched a cartoon character on a video screen explain the process while the cart took me past an audioanimatronic simulation of a conch. I guess the lawyers convinced the company of the risks involved in letting little kids have any access to a working factory-- but to me it meant that kids these days never get to see the actual process. What do they learn of it now, the Willy Wonka version? And when they grow up, will they support equal rights for oompaloompas?

(On the other hand, the street lights in town are made to look like Hershey's Kisses. I miss that our corporate citizens never miss an opportunity for branding. Talk about a company town!)

What else have we lost? I remember cider mills, where you could watch a big wooden machine slowly contract to squeeze the juice out of several bushels of apples at once, and they told us that there were sheep out back who would be happy to eat the leftovers. Do kids still get to see this? I remember the ice cream parlor with the actual freezer they made the stuff in in the shop window, churning away happily while we munched on our hot fudge sundaes. Do kids still get to see this?

The end of the line for this particular idea is, not only does America not have an industrial base any more, but the American worker has practically no role in the production of actual goods for the American consumer, as if they were completely disjoint societies-- a far cry from Henry Ford's realization that his assembly line crews were likely to be his customers, which meant that he had to pay his workers enough to be able to afford the cars. Now the world of work means sitting in a cubicle staring at a computer screen and doing something to data. In extreme cases it means Enron-- figuring out how to use leverage (in both the economic and the psychological sense) to manipulate the flow of electrons in wires in order to squeeze out profits from unwitting customers you'll never have to meet.

I want to conserve a sense of society that understands that there's more to life than business.

I hope this make some sort of sense... :shrug:

thread from a little over a week ago. It was a rant by a Canadian who was sick and tired of all of us lamenting the loss of the American Dream. He challenged us to create a new and better Dream. I had to agree with him.

Your "more to life than business" closing crystalizes one of my primary cultural complaints. . .we delude ourself about our now lost moral supremacy when in reality we are collectively mostly mostivated by, worship, and reward greed and selfishness. We have for as long as I can remember. Though it did get far more pronounced in the "greed is good" 80's.

Granted there are times like right after the tsunami I do feel inspired by the inherant generosity of our culture though.

I'm also reminded of a discussion I had in early March of '03 with a right wing relative. I was saying what a colossal blunder invading Iraq would be. Her only retort was utterly juvenile she said "we're number one." Ughhh I told her we think we're gonna turn Iraq into Switzerland but all we're gonna do is turn our economy into that of Argentina. I also said we'd win militarily but lose economically and diplomatically. Wish I wasn't right.

Watching our steady decline over recent years I've always thought perhaps super powers are no longer appropriate in this still new millennium though it doesn't appear at present that we will be the last.

But ya know I believe far more in lasting spiritual solutions than political, militaristic, or economic ones anyhoo. Silly me.

Chick lit eh ? Too funny but I know what you mean about the stew.
I spend the better part of 2 & 1/2 days chopping vegetables for my annual wild Indian protest dish for Thanksgiving which I supply for five different family gatherings and people think I'm nuts to refuse to use a Cuisinart. m-m-m-must ch-ch-ch-charge-ge-ge ev-v-v-very-ry-ry m-m-m-mors-s-s-el-el-el.

Your bit about built in obsolescence and being maniputated as a consumer reminds me of a old friend's take on materialism. According to him we are not a materialistic culture in the true sense as we don't revere matter at all and are so "disposably oriented." Think that is probably true.

Thanks for sharing my friend.

May I use it on my blog? With due credit of course.

but I'd probably do another edit but I'm anal about editing. What's your blog's URL ?

http://blog.myspace.com/15410437

That's its home for right now, I'm planning on doing a website sometime soon.