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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 11:26 AM
Original message
Idiot con claims all polls are all liberal- biased
"As I watch President Bush's poll numbers supposedly drop every day, with the media continually bashing him with glee, please let me make four quick observations.

First, by a very high percentage, I assume, the pollsters making these calls are liberals, with the questions slanted in their biased way.

Second, any logic would presume that the pollsters are reaching a heavily skewed audience of Democrats at home. (We Republicans are out making money, and hiring people, to keep the economy going.)

Third, I'm 49 years old and still waiting for a pollster to call me. For some reason I don't think I'll ever get the call.

Last, and most important, if an election were held tomorrow with Bush against any Democrat, GW would win convincingly and overwhelmingly. The American people would go into the voting booth and, through common sense, realize that the economy is growing and in great shape and that President Bush is killing terrorists before they kill us.

It's as simple as that. Period. End of story......
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/14614602.htm
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This sort of nonsense drives me insane - especially since he's not questioning ONE poll or another (as we often do here on DU, but ALL the polls which show an unpopular President. He's basically questioning the whole concept of survey sampling.
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My letter back to him:

I respect your opinion about Mr. Bush expressed in your letter to the Inquirer. But it's hard to understand how a 49 year old adult "businessman" has gotten this far in life and in business without understanding survey research, which is taught to freshmen at every business school in the country.

First, you say that "pollsters making these calls are liberals, with the questions slanted in their biased way". It might be called "CBS News" poll, but the polling is done by huge market research companies run by the same business people who are out making money and hiring people to keep the economy going. The people who actually make the calls don't get to write the questions, so their politics are irrelevant - they read the question off a computer screen, and are monitored to be sure they do not stray from the script. If you read beyond the headlines about the poll numbers, you can often read the question exactly as it was asked, and judge for yourself if it's biased. I do that all the time: when I see a poll, I want to know if respondents were asked, "How would you rate X's performance on a scale of 1-10" or "How awful is X's performance: horrible, bad, or not-so-great" ). In addition to looking at the question, look up who did the poll, and make sure it is a reputable organization such as one of these: http://www.library.yale.edu/socsci/opinion/pollingorganizations.html.

Second, you say "pollster are reaching a heavily skewed audience of Democrats at home". Survey researchers use quotas, which means that they are looking for a representative sample of men and women; blacks, whites and Hispanics, Democrats and Republicans, and any other categories specified by those commissioning the polls (employed full time vs. retired vs. homemaker, income level, level of education complete, etc.) so that the poll reflects the population being surveyed. If Republicans outnumber Democrats in the US by 5:4, then those designing the poll will set the quota so that Republicans outnumber Democrats by 5:4. If, for some reason, pollsters are not able to reach an adequate number of Republicans (since they were out making money), the answers from the Republicans they were able to reach will be weighted more heavily - so they may count 1.5 times and those self-identifying as Democrats (or taken from voter rolls) may count as only .75 or .5 times or whatever it takes to make Republican answers outnumber Democratic answers by exactly 5:4..

Third, you're "49 years old and still waiting for a pollster to call me". Do you know how many people are required for a poll to be valid? Only a little over a thousand, for a national poll - that's 1,000 out of 200,000,000 people. Not high odds that any one person will be called. Years of experience and statistical analysis has shown that once you hit 1000, asking more people does not increase the accuracy of the poll. As the folks at ABCNew Polls say " If you don't believe in random sampling, next time you go to the doctor for a blood test, have him take it all."

Lastly, you're right in implying that survey results CAN be manipulated (that's why I always want to see exactly how the question was asked, and so should you) but the large survey research companies doing this polling stake their reputation on these polls be at least conducted in a statistically valid way.

In order to learn more about the business of survey research, you may want to check out information from the American Statistical Association (not exactly a commie/liberal group) who explain things better than I can at http://www.whatisasurvey.info. ABCNews Polls has an excellent section explaining polls at http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/POLL_EXPLAINER.html, or read one of the many books available in any college bookstore near you.

And yes, of course, I've worked in this industry since 1985.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. I believe most motives for military actions are profit driven. My
point is more easily proven.

www.addictedtowar.com
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. Funny...
There are social scientists who would argue that surveys are conservative-biased because of their objective positivism.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. And Say AMEN as We Partake of the Blessed Kool-Aid And Lose all sense
and rational thought.
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achtung_circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. Nice.
Edited on Sun May-21-06 11:40 AM by achtung_circus
What do you think of my favourite summarization:

http://www.pollkatz.homestead.com/

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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. This:
:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. excellent response!
:toast:
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. But but but they must be biased because they do not reflect the CON
Edited on Sun May-21-06 11:44 AM by Vincardog
servative propaganda. The only thing that gets in the way of their great plans is reality,
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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
7. Reality has a well-know Liberal bias.....
Claims of Liberal Bias are now being used by Conservatives to discredit anything, including facts, that they don't like.

GOOD response to this guy!
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MindMatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
8. All polls *DO* have a liberal bias
because virtually all groupings of Americans (except maybe the Michigan Militia or Ky Klux Klan) OVERWHELMINGLY favor liberal policies.

Show me any poll where the majority is in favor of gutting funding for public schools.

Show me any poll where the majority are in favor of letting industries pollute our air, soil, and water without any consequences.

Show me any poll where the majority think it is just fine for oil companies to be raking in windfall profits while the average American has to give up all manner of luxuries and necessities just to put gas in the car to get to the job.

Show me any poll where the majority think it is just fine for Detroit to not be forced to improve the efficiency of their products

Show me any poll where the majority thinks it is a good idea for the drug companies to spend more money on marketing and lobbying than they do on R&D and actaully manufacturing the products.

Show me any poll where the majority believes that it makes sense for Americans to spend twice as much money as Canadians for the exact same drugs.

Show me any poll where the marority think people like Pat Robertson and Ernest Angeley should be telling us how to conduct our reproductive lives.

Show me any poll where the majority believe that warrantless wiretaps are good for America.

Show me any poll where the marority believe in the kind of Republican "fair trade" that has caused MILLIONS of our best jobs to be exported to Mexico, India, and Cairo.

When people like Rove claim that America is "center - right" , that is complete bullshit. Americans from sea to shining sea are progressive-minded when you ask them how they feel about specific policies. The conservatives have only been able to win elections by controlling the media and therefore being in a position to create a gigantic cloud of confustion and demagogery over the key issues. (And of course, it also helps that Democrats have been so unwilling to call out that BS -- and it never hurts to have companies like Diebold working for your election success either.)
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. What did this idiot and his ilk think when Bush was riding high in
The polls in September 2001? Why do the cons only question the validity of the polls when their beloved leader's numbers suck canal water?
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Ding! Ding! Ding!
Must've been all Gawd-fearin', apple pie-lovin' pollsters back then. :sarcasm:
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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. well, the email was kicked back
fake email, full box, blocked, whatever.

not that anyone that stupid would have read all that "stat" stuff
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