Is this "the Fringe Left"?????

The apologists for the DLC are branding the primary challengers to incumbent Democrats as "Fringe Leftist", but never bother to define exactly which issues they (The DLC) consider to be the issues of The FRINGE.

I used to think of myself as a Leftist but after looking at the polling data, I stand with the MAJORITY of AMERICANS (not just Democrats.)


"It doesn't get covered by the corporate media (imagine that), but mainstream polls consistently find that big majorities of Americans are not meek centrists, but overt, tub-thumping, FDR progressives who are seeking far more populist gumption and governmental action than any Democratic congressional leader or presidential contender has dared to imagine. In recent polls by the Pew Research Group, the Opinion Research Corporation, the Wall Street Journal, and CBS News, the American majority has made clear how it feels. Look at how the majority feels about some of the issues that you'd think would be gospel to a real Democratic party:

1. 65 percent say the government should guarantee health insurance for everyone -- even if it means raising taxes.

2. 86 percent favor raising the minimum wage (including 79 percent of selfdescribed "social conservatives").

3. 60 percent favor repealing either all of Bush's tax cuts or at least those cuts that went to the rich.

4. 66 percent would reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

5. 77 percent believe the country should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment.

6. 87 percent think big oil corporations are gouging consumers, and 80 percent (including 76 percent of Republicans) would support a windfall profits tax on the oil giants if the revenues went for more research on alternative fuels.

7. 69 percent agree that corporate offshoring of jobs is bad for the U.S. economy (78 percent of "disaffected" voters think this), and only 22% believe offshoring is good because "it keeps costs down."

http://alternet.org/story/29788/

8. Over 65% of all Americans believe that the Invasion of Iraq was a mistake, and are in favor of withdrawal.
(#8 added by the myself)



Does YOUR Representative speak for you and the MAJORITY of Americans?
Does the DLC represent "The Center", OR is the DLC in reality the Far RIGHT Fringe of the Democratic Party?
If you support candidates that represent YOUR issues, are YOU guilty of "just wanting to destroy the Democratic Party"?

:applause:

There's definitely a disconnect between how people feel about issues and the political labels applied. The Republicans have Americans thinking that liberals are the boogeyman even though most of them ARE liberals by the issues. A lot of elected Democrats believe it too and try to mimic Republicans. Then there's voting....a few heated wedge issues can make people forget about healthcare and the environment.

How do we change how Americans have been trained to think? How do we get them to focus on what's really important??

Reform within the Party.
Loudly speaking TRUTH to Corporate Power.
Realizing who the enemy is, and spreading the Word.
Primary challenges to Democrats who no longer represent the interests of their constituents.
Direct economic support of Democratic Party reformers even if that means going outside Party aparatus.

Status Quo begets Status Quo



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans,
family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."--- Senator Paul Wellstone

In EVERY case, "Barriers to Trade" and "Restrictions on Corporations" were created to protect something valuable!

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

GREAT POST!!!

:-)

the right wing's left fringe.

Reality does have a liberal bias these days.

Keeping consistent views that were the center in the 70s puts you on the fringe today/

However you mention the possibility of a draft and my son goes ballistic. With a little shove he could turn far left. I do live in a household of Democrats, it has largely been by choice.

The propaganda from the Corporate PR firms would have you believe that the issues have changed, and the Corporate owned Talking Heads have done their best to catapult that message, but its NOT true.
Most Amreicans are still Americans at heart.
Most Americans still have to WORK for a living.

Until we understand we are all in this together, labeling is nothing but divisive.

It is the DLC and their apologists that applied the LABEL "Fringe Left" to anyone who opposed their Corporate Driven agenda.
There are numerous Pro-DLC posts today that are dredging out that tired old tactic
If you read my post, you will realize that my purpose was to highlight the absurdity of battling the LABELS.

My response to these debates is to redirect to the issues.
I noticed you responded with vague rhetoric, and avoided The Issues.

turn this into a battle of "you" versus "us" with your initial salvo of the label "DLC apologists," and then passive-aggressively pretending to be a peacemaker highlighting the absurdity of battling with labels by continuing to use them yourself in the guise of redirecting issues.

Until you view the notion of working together as something other than vague rhetoric, there is no hope here at DU for finding common ground. I remain skeptical that was your intent for the reasons I've already stated.

and do you support candidates who run on these issues?
If yes, we have nothing to argue about.
If NO, then bring your lunch.
:hi:

1. 65 percent say the government should guarantee health insurance for everyone -- even if it means raising taxes.

2. 86 percent favor raising the minimum wage (including 79 percent of selfdescribed "social conservatives").

3. 60 percent favor repealing either all of Bush's tax cuts or at least those cuts that went to the rich.

4. 66 percent would reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

5. 77 percent believe the country should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment.

6. 87 percent think big oil corporations are gouging consumers, and 80 percent (including 76 percent of Republicans) would support a windfall profits tax on the oil giants if the revenues went for more research on alternative fuels.

7. 69 percent agree that corporate offshoring of jobs is bad for the U.S. economy (78 percent of "disaffected" voters think this), and only 22% believe offshoring is good because "it keeps costs down."

1) agree.
2) agree.
3) agree.
4) agree.
5) agree.
6) agree.
7) agree.

Funny how that works, eh? I am also not a DLC apologist. I am, however, grateful for their fund-raising ability for the party as a whole. That's apparently where we part company and where I'm the pragmatist. To suggest that no corporate money be accepted by the Dems is unrealistic and would be nowhere in the ballpark of competitive. Change that across the board and I'm with you. The DLC has a platform that has some good ideas and some not so good ideas, but they are just ideas. The problem as I view it is the elbow-sharpening that goes on, trying to nudge factions from the party, when they all deserve a voice. I subscribe to democracy in that regard.

Most of all, I strongly prefer truth-telling about issues and candidates and abhor the half-truths and flat-out BS perpetrated innocently or sometimes purposely by factions on various message boards that I've had an opportunity to study. Opinion can be misconstrued as fact and that influences people in an unfair and unjust way.

You have listed some issues that most candidates don't have the nachos to touch, and I agree that has to change. I believe in the infusion of new ideas and new blood in the Democratic Party which is why I support primary challenges.

But until people like you and I quit knocking our heads together in the ever-waging snotty rhetoric marathons, we will continue to waste energy better spent doing something constructive.

their views as "extremists" and "far left fringe." They started this division by attacking everyone from protestors to Howard Dean (who was the choice of the grassroots a/k/a "the far left"). Now the DLC can face the music of their divisiveness. The DLC elitists do not represent the Democratic Party!

And you refer to the DLC as elitists. That's my point. Labeling is rampant and no one is innocent. I am not innocent, but I don't belong to any faction, I belong to the Democratic Party.

But everyone should have a voice in the process and to suggest that one faction or another does or does not represent the Dems en masse is simply more rhetoric. We can't simply shut out stuff we don't want to hear. That's the only way we can find some common ground. That matters to me because we are all Democrats (?) and there is strength in numbers. We want to include people, not exclude them based on a litmus test.

I'll never forget the attacks on Howard Dean by the DLC. They are DINOs - representing corporate interests, not those of the majority of Americans.

I understand the main point of the OP, but I do wish that "DLC apologist" was not used. It comes across as an attack specifically at another group of DUers.

I, of course, do not mind if the post was about the DLC in general, so it is a disagreement of style rather than substance.

Well stated.

I'll not stand here and argue for or against the DLC. But I **will** argue that they're a special interest group and not a party and that they do NOT represent the majority view.

Those are the issues Democrats should run on. When non-political people think of "liberal" they're thinking of something else entirely. They really are thinking of latte sipping folks with scads of money who are gentrifying their neighborhoods and inventing new ways they should be raising their children. They're not thinking about people with populist, pro-working person, pro-family positions.

Great observation.

for Dems. Why haven't any of the "big" candidates taken up this issue with any kind of seriousness?

that the reason they don't go for the living wage issue is because it might tend to cut into their campaign contributions.

Perhaps I'm being too cynical...

However, the National Democratic Party would have to be willing to say "Good-Bye" to the majority of their single source Corporate Contributions to adopt a Populist National Party Platform.
Until that time, the best that the Democratic Party can offer is rather empty and vague declarations of support for the Working Man.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans,
family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."--- Senator Paul Wellstone

In EVERY case, "Barriers to Trade" and "Restrictions on Corporations" were created to protect something valuable!

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

the Living Wage with conviction was Kucinich, back in 2003. With so much media attention on the War and Bush's approval rating, it gets lost sometimes that the average American is working far too hard for far too little to show for it.

He did well in the caucuses of my home state of Minnesota in spite of the pressure from the entrenched Party establishment who had their orders from the beltway.

Your post reminds me of chapter 9 of Michael Moore's book "Dude, Where's My Country?" That chapter is titled "A Liberal Paradise" and that liberal paradise is the United States of America. Yes indeed, we commie pinko tree-hugging liberal wackos are in the American mainstream, after all. So how is it that right-wing wackos are in control of EVERYTHING?

Ron

Clearly, a vast swath of the electorate sees no compelling reason to go out and vote for people who will represent the interests of the rich and powerful.

The only reason I am voting in this June 6 California primary is to vote for Marcy Winograd, a true progressive Democrat (not a fringe leftist, by any stretch of the imagination) in her challenge to Bushite Jane Harman, who never met a major piece of Bush legislation she didn't support (ranging from the Iraq War to the Bankruptcy Bill).

March 10-12 Gallup/USA Today Poll
Q. 14 - Withdraw Immediately 19%
Withdraw Take as many years as Needed 39% Which hasn't changed since Nov. 05. They don't like how Bush has handled the war; they do believe that we should not have gone in in the first place.

Taxes. They complain about taxes all the time. It makes it really tough for Legislators to approve taxes. I'd like to see someone win an election with a plan to tax Americans for any of your reasons.

The poll you cite was about new low approval, not the war
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-08-bush-approval_x.htm

And a majority of American have wanted a withdrawal from Iraq for more than a year.

Here are all the major polls showing increasing disgust with Bush and his lie about Iraq: http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

Please show me ONE poll that asks about immediate withdrawal. Even Rove believes one-third of Americans want immediate withdrawal, one-third want a new strategy, and one-third want to stay the course. Mind you, that's from Rove.

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060522/WIRE/205220323/1117/news

"The Rove-Taylor view is that one-third of Americans agree with liberal Democrats calling for immediate withdrawal, with another third supporting staying the course. The middle third wants a new strategy but would be leery of pulling out of a volatile Iraq, a position strategists believe leaves those voters open to persuasion."

Note: You're dealing with people who make it their business to research and look to many sources of info to find out the truth. You can't make claims about approval ratings, or how people feel about the war here without expecting to get challenged.

Again check out question 14
19% said immediate Withdrawl
39% said Withdraw Take as Many Years as needed.

As recently as March!!! And that hasn't changed since November.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/2006-03-13-poll.htm

Sorry I forgot to post the link I was hoping the info wouldn't be so difficult for people to find by doing a basic search and I did not have the info off hand.

withdraw immediately and withdraw in 12 months they have 44%, according to this poll. Seems low in comparison to other polls.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/2006-03-13-poll.htm

14. Here are four different plans the U.S. could follow in dealing with the war in Iraq. Which ONE do you prefer?

Withdraw immediately Withdraw in 12 months’ time Withdraw, take as many years as needed Send more troops No opinion
2006 Mar 10-12 19 35 39 4 3
2005 Nov 11-13 19 33 38

For reading that!

But just wait, The DLC Defenders will be here shortly arguing that these are "Issues We Can't Possibly Win With!"

I'm always reminded of the Wizard of Oz,

"Health Care, Environment and Taxes! Oh My!"

"The Middle Of The Road - nothing there but yellow stripes and dead animals."

There is a concerted effort to squash the campaigns of anyone who is running to truly represent the majority of people in this country.

They will not let go of their power easily. In the meantime, we have to fight for ur right to be heard and represented.

post, and off topic, i love the picture of the armadillo...i'm in sw missouri, and I am at war with the Armadillo invasion...damn bastards, are a pain, and can destroy a yard asap, almost as bad as gophers...

progressives just because they don't like to see elites in power. Who ever has?

Get Used to Moonbat, Treehugger, L I B E R A L and so many others. Republicans love to make fun of the left and if you want to be taken seriously PUT ON A GD SUIT!!!!!

See more here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1259903&mesg_id=1259903

here are the two stats that matter

99% of Americans give ZERO dollars to their congressional representatives

100% of corporations donate money to members of congress

:rofl: :rofl:

Meaning I'm a little left of center, (maybe a lot! ;) ) by today's standards!

But I did take a political survey/quiz and it said I was THE RADICAL LEFT!!!!

Hanging off the left edge by my fingernails!! :rofl:

I was soooo fucking PROUD!!!!!!! :rofl: :rofl:

Put some, who thought they were radical, to shame! He,he,he!! ;)

Apparently, they aren't. But I am! "Who'd have thunk it?" :rofl:

:hippie:

All seven of the issues are not so much about re:puke: and Democrat, as they are about rich and not rich.

The DLC IS the fringe right of the democratic party!

is about defining the conventional wisdom and limiting the terms of acceptable debate. The DLC is helped in this task by the corporations that fund their efforts and own most of the media.

We'd probably confirm their rightward bias.