Behind Every Silver Lining, There MUST be a Dark Cloud ...

By Nancy Greggs

I’m not pointing fingers, and I’m not trying to start a flame war here. But I am growing increasingly weary of getting involved in discussion threads where ideas are being exchanged, political strategies debated, only to have the conversation interrupted by a comment like: “We’re all DOOMED, man. Get over it. They’re going to declare Bush king, and put us all in concentration camps, and there’s NOTHING we can do about it.”

Right off the top, I fail to understand why people who honestly believe we have no recourse are (a) wasting their time posting here or anywhere else, if they truly think our doom is inevitable, and (b) have already resigned themselves to what they perceive to be a fate worse than death without a hint of putting up a fight.

I have honestly thought about contacting the Admins here to suggest an “All Whine - All The Time” forum, so these people can share their thoughts with each other and leave the rest of us, who are desirous of facing the current challenges and exchanging ideas towards effecting positive change, in peace.

As we said in the ‘sixties, if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. If you have already accepted that we are all spinning our wheels and merely delaying the inevitable destruction of our democracy, why can’t you keep yourself busy downloading tunes to your iPod for the trip to Dissenters’ Camp and leave the rest of us to discuss our ideas for saving the country in our own phantasmagoric head space?

Don’t get me wrong. A bit of negativity, framed in an appropriate context, can be a positive thing. There’s nothing wrong with saying, “I’ve read your idea for this-or-that, but here’s an example of why it may not work.” And those kinds of posts are usually followed with a rash of suggestions on how the original idea COULD be made to work, or offer a viable alternative to effect the same outcome.

I am also not venting my anger at people who get depressed about the state of things, or momentarily lose hope and need to find a there-there-things-will-get-better DU hug. We’ve all had our moments; at one time or another, we have all found ourselves on one side or another of that equation.

But I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about people who invariably shoot down every idea offered, every bit of encouragement proffered, people who have to counter every bit of good news for our side with a brazillion reasons for pessimism and despair, who are not content if they can’t remind every one of us of the futility of our actions.

I’m probably taking these things too personally – but then, I take everything personally, because it’s all about ME (okay, AND my fellow citizens).

I love my country as much as the next guy, but there are reasons I am not willing to give up the fight to save it that are as self-centered as they are freedom-loving. And if you can’t stand up for what is right for the nation as a whole, can’t YOU take it personally and fight from that perspective?

Firstly, I do not intend to go quietly to Dissenters’ Camp. The camps will probably be non-smoking, and as a committed smoker, I don’t ‘do’ the no-smoking thing. And even if they offered a smoking section (in an obvious attempt to make me go quietly), you just know it would be located right next to the kitchen, where the banging of pots and pans drowns out the music, and the wait staff always ignore you when you try to order another round of martinis.

The camp would be run by Halliburton, or some subsidiary thereof, so you know it would have to be profitable. That means they’d probably blare music all day long to keep the ‘workers’ in the field or the sweatshop lulled into acquiescence. Well, if you think I’m going to listen to “We’ll Put A Boot Up Their Ass, It’s The American Way” all day long, think again. That prospect alone is enough to make me stand my ground when my freedoms are on the line. I’d sooner die in the street fighting than surrender my right to go deaf blaring Stevie Nicks or Lincoln Park through my headphones – and I don’t care who knows it.

Will I have access to television at the camp? Will it be tuned-in to FOX-News 24-7, or reruns of “Full House”? Count me out. I’ll take my chances on-the-run in the wilds of Montana, living on road kill and critter-de-jour before I’ll sit still for that crap.

And where will I get my hair dye, my mascara and my moisturizer? I consider my right to fight and die as a thick-lashed, slightly unnatural brunette as sacrosanct as my right to vote in fair elections.

Are there uniforms at the camp? Horizontal stripes? Forget it. At my age, I ain’t wearing nothing that makes my spreading waistline look even bigger than it already is. They’ll never take me alive.

The point of my little rant is this: If you really believe there is no way to change the current course the nation is embarked on, if you believe that dissent and activism are pointless, if you have already accepted defeat before the battle is even engaged, you have a right to that opinion. And it goes without saying that as an American, you also have a right to express that opinion (well, as of this writing, you do – you might want to check Latest Breaking News, just to be on the safe side).

However, you should also be aware that if were it not for the thousands of people here who are trying to be a force for positive change, your right to express your opinion about ANYTHING may someday be greatly diminished.

If you feel a need to wake people up to REAL problems, or issues you feel are being overlooked, by all means weigh into the conversation – and don’t hesitate to be LOUD about it.

But if your only purpose is to find the company that misery needs in order to thrive, would you please consider finding companionship elsewhere?

Our country is at a crossroads; there are decisions to be made, and creative thought to be applied to changing the things that so desperately need changing. There are enough real problems to be dealt with – from election fraud to the collapse of the economy, from illegal wire-tapping to political corruption – without having to invent concepts like concentration camps and a declaration of a George Bush monarchy. The fostering of these ideas, in my humble opinion, serves no purpose other than to dissuade those who are willing to fight the good fight from doing what we can.

P.S. Don’t look for me at the camp. I can guarantee you that one way or the other, I won’t be there. And by the way, thanks to DU and the people who gather here daily to encourage all of us to participate in keeping our democracy strong and enduring, neither will you.

Redstone

I'm just sitting here waiting to be flamed.

We who are about to fry salute you!

in honor of your post. You wrote well.

Redstone

I agree there are people who are weary and worn....but I also think there are people who are here to create chaos.....My people were slaves....and let me tell you something....I am not going into chains, into a camp...or the "Running Man" environment (bad Aaaarnold movie)
I am going to be running right along side you...and we will become the American Version of the "French Resisters" during WWII.

When the American people get a chance we will destroy the Halliburton's of the world....we will deregulate these collosal companies and we will jail the traiterous bastards that have shit on this country.....


Bravo Nancy Bravo....

You're one of those DUers who is always MAD about the right things, and MAD ENOUGH to change them instead of cryin' about them.

to keep my wandering mind focussed.....we will win this fight....I am generally low key and laid back.....but like you and others I am very aware of history and it's implications and I have come to the realization that it was the common people like us that made the difference in those historical times...the French Resistance comes to mind....The Underground Railroad.....there are plenty of examples.....

Give me Liberty or Give me Death....it seems that the statement has more meaning today to me then it ever has.

Float like a butterfly and Sting like a bees.

You certainly have been on a roll lately - your posts have been just GREAT! I hope we can all count on more of them in the future.

A stich in time saves nine.

Hope 2006 reverse course :hug:
Me beleive US all blue
But beware the third party. They strong.

In this modern day with the rise of MEGA MULTI NATIONAL CORPARATIONS we need to be wary of their ability to control our lifelyhood. It is no different from the feudal days of LORDS and SERF.

Democracy is a check and balance. Growth versus Quality of life for the people and super income for the rich.

At this moment in time and history US just swing to the extreme end.

Eh.... I'm with you. No camps for me. If shit comes down, I'm grabbing a gun and jumping into a foxhole with John Kerry and Wes Clark. ;))))

Thanks for a great post Nance.

Did you say Wes Clark?

What foxhole? Can you put up a big honkin' flag so I can find you easily?

You did say WES CLARK, right?

(Is there any chance of him leaving MRS. Clark at home? It doesn't hurt to ask ...)

I'll pack in the morning.

... but he's got NUTHIN' on you! :hug:

A little more.

I think all presidential candidates should look like Ross Perot. Or at least have to wear a Perot mask, complete with authentic giant-sucking-sound ears, on the campaign trail.

ON EDIT: My inner Freeper spell-check is letting me down again.

Kerry's an expert marksman and has shown he can act under intense fire - and Clark wasn't a general for nothing.

I'm going with who is best to lead a revolution AND survive if it ever came down to civil war. Who would people REALLY want to be with them and their families in THEIR foxhole?

If I'm holding a gun in a foxhole, I sure as hell want Kerry and Clark nearby.

that the shirts that are part of the horizontal stripe uniforms will have to be TUCKED IN!!!

Screw that shit.

I'm with you Nance. Live free or die fighting!

Have a good weekend. :smoke::hi:

if there is a dark cloud ANYWHERE. No matter how well hidden it may be. There are people in this forum who will find it. :)

I do, as a matter of fact, at this time think it may well be pointless. However, I intend to be screaming till the end. They will never be able to take me alive, they will have to shut me up, I will make them crazy (I am being silly here).

Edit to add I will NOT put up with wearing stripes. That is WAY to much to expect.

... that of everything I said, the striped uniforms would be the proverbial straw that breaks every camel's back!

But that's part of the American experience, and the American brother-and-sisterhood. "When you tell me how to dress, you're in for the fight of your life ... and while I'm at it, I'll teach you to fuck with my voting process and the rest of that crap you've been pulling!"

Right on, DUers ... we have just BEGUN TO FIGHT!

I can take just about anything but some asshole telling me what to do with myself. Anything, just say it and I will fight it. I would have made a terrible soldier, I have real problems with authority, especially when they are stupid and vile. Hell I was raised for this fight. My entire family prides itself on their reputation for being stubborn. Well, they are all dead now so I have to, I just HAVE to keep the theme going, ya know?

Yes, the stripes and the Fox news. That is just asking way too much.

Great post by the way.

As an unrepentant smoker, I'll be avoiding the dissenters camp along with you. Hope we meet up some day (outside the camp)!

Don't forget to bring a carton of smokes, a splash of gin and vermouth, and some good tunes!

when apathetic, ignorant pessimists say of politicians that "they are all the same", then vote for the party with the catchiest jingle in an election campaign?

In Australia, the conservative party has captured the middle ground, but they may be in for a bit of a surprise in the 2007 election. The mortgage belts are basically in the outer suburbs of the capital cities where public transport is not so prevalent. With petrol prices at an all time high, interest rates rising and a new working environment where Howard is creating the working poor there should be a lot votes coming back to Labor. The new conservative voters are called the aspirationalists who live in such areas. Is there a parallel phenomena in the US?

We just don't see enough of you around here!

Yes, my blood does run cold by people who sit back and say, "All politicians are the same," yadda yadda. If you can't see the difference between the current Neo-con agenda and those who oppose it, you're obviously not paying attention.

Now, for a personal challenge, AusGail -- get those posts up to the 1,000 mark and I'll donate to DU in your name and get you that well-deserved star!

You may be from down-under, but your posts always bring me up-and-over.

Get typing', girl ...

thanks Nance for your encouraging replies. Sometimes I feel as though I'm intruding into someone else's argument, but when I see imbeciles like Bush and Howard it really frightens me. Osama Bin Laden does not need a propaganda machine, he only needs to show footage of our fearless leaders and it does the job perfectly.

"He only needs to show footage of our fearless leaders and it does the job perfectly."

Ain't THAT the truth!

Damn ... just when I'm feeling in a real funk and sayin' 'fuck it' .... here you come with your pep talk crap and yank on my bootstraps. Just when I was feeling good and funked.

Yanno, I think there may be a few inveterate 'dark clouders' but mostly I just see the diehards go through crises of confidence ... or who just have to deal with bouts of intense weariness.

... but then I think about the alternative - apathy, acquiescence, giving in -- and I realize that no matter what, I am not going quietly into THAT good night.

As I said, I'm not talking to those of us (all of us) who have had our bouts of depression and doubt. I'm talking about those who just feel compelled to rain on the parade, over and over and over.

To borrow a line from Ira Levin (paraphrased): "Okay, I'm not saying they're PROFESSIONAL crepe-hangers. But God knows they're among the top ranking AMATEURS!"

You're good people, NanceGreggs

Right back at ya, Husb2Sparkly!

I head over to GD for one minute, and there's smooching going on?

Husbnd2Sparkly and I are having a 'moment' ...

Crazy hippies!

ON EDIT: 4th time tonight I've used freeper spelling and syntax. This is Hugh!!!111 I'm SERIES!!!111

I also recommend a "Spoon" forum, for certain individuals who enjoy posting thread after thread of flamebait and who follow each other around stirring up storms.

And, I really enjoy your posts. I won't be in the camps. I am going to vote. I am going to fight to my last breath.

Apparently none of the really FUN DUers plan on being there.

BTW: LOVE your sig line, re Francis of Assisi quote. I'd never heard that one before, and it is more than appopriate for our life and times.

Okay, don't tell me -- Francis of Assisi won't be going to camp either.

Like I said, none of the 'IN' crowd is going, so that's another reason to count me out ...

:eyes:

It's the all-purpose DU Debbie Downer answer. To any question. To wit:

"Hey mom, is there any turkey left? I'm hungry."

"It doesn't matter. Unless they fix the VOTING MACHINES, NOBODY will have any turkey."

Or:

"Who played the guitar solo on Steely Dan's 'Reeling in the Years?'"

"Without paper ballots, the only person who'll be playing guitar is BUSHITLER BUSHEVIK BUSHY-BUSH II!"

Or:

"I have a headache. Should I take an ibuprofen?"

"PAPER BALLOTS NOW!!!"

:popcorn:

:donut:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x429999


?W

dp

Don't get me wrong. It matters to me.

What I find funny is people on DU who use that as an excuse to be apathetic ("Who am I gonna vote for in 2008?! What does it matter?! My votes's just gonna get stolen anyways..."), or who see Diebold as some sort of comic book supervillian organization with tentacles that manipulate every single political contest in the US.

... and election fraud is a problem (along with the war in Iraq, the economy, environmental issues, separation of church and state, illegal spying on the citizenry, outsourcing of jobs, lack of medical coverage, unchecked cargo at the ports, illegal immigration, corporate power, lobbyists, an ineffective national emergency response system, underfunded social programs, homelessness, the gutting of veterans benefits and pensions, the spineless attitude of so-called journalists, tainted drugs and food allowed on the market, an educational system that doesn't teach anything, bribe-taking on the part of elected officials, impairment of rights for women, gays, and ethnic minorities, pseudo-Christians who support an administration that promotes torture, pseudo-preachers who sell Jesus on infomercials like he's a cheap vacuum cleaner, hard-working people who just want a slice of the American Dream, non-working wealthy people who just want the whole Goddamned pie, poor Americans who can't get enough to eat, corporations that can't get enough money shoved in their pockets, elected representatives that only represent themselves, outraged citizens, complacent politicians, and a law-breaking idiot who can hardly pronounce his own fuckin' name at the helm of what was once the greatest nation on the face of the earth).

Other than that, everything's going peachy-keen.

No one here is discounting the problem of election fraud. But when it comes to the many problems facing the country today, I'm afraid it has to stand in line with all of the other catastrophes.

Fixing what's wrong with our election process is a good start - but complaining about it to the exclusion of everything else that's gone wrong here is, IMHO, naive. And when it is used as an excuse to not participate in a positive way, it's downright criminal.

"No one here is discounting the problem of election fraud. But when it comes to the many problems facing the country today, I'm afraid it has to stand in line with all of the other catastrophes."

At the FRONT of the line--or nothing else WILL get fixed. I'm not saying don't do anything; on the contrary, I get most annoyed at the "cavalry is coming" posts that say just don't be negative and Kerry (or whoever) will fix everything. But it being POSSIBLE to get the bad guys out is not just one of the many problems needing fixing--it's the one upon which all the others rest...

... but these things are, IMHO, inter-related.

If every citizen was aware of Diebold et all, and how easily hacked they are, there would be more of a public outcry. But millions of people DON'T know, thanks to our 'vigilant' MSM.

A financially-strapped citizen is a malleable citizen. The economy is taking its toll on the public's involvement in, and awareness of, the current state of affairs. If your job has been outsourced, your savings are gone, and you're now holding down two part-time jobs, keeping your kids fed, clothed and housed is ALL you're thinking about right now.

Political corruption is another thing that is turning voters off from being involved. Why vote at all, if you come to think that every politician is on-the-take, they just fall into one of two categories: those who have been caught and those who haven't yet.

The list goes on. I applaud the efforts of those involved in election reform; so many people are working tirelessly on that issue. But I personally get VERY annoyed when there are discussions about some of the other issues that need action as well, and someone pipes up with the comment that there is NO OTHER ISSUE more important than this one.

We need to keep focused on ALL of the things that need fixing. And I also worry, when I see these "NOTHING else matters if the voting process isn't fixed" comments, that there will be people who, this November, think to themselves: "Well, I haven't heard that the voting machine thing has been dealt with, so I just won't bother voting at all."

We're all on the same side here, and each of us needs to focus on the areas where we feel we can be effective - whether it's volunteering time to a candidate's campaign, assisting with getting voters out to the polls, writing LTTEs to focus attention on major issues, or organizing rallies or marches to get media attention.

To insist that everyone should drop everything they're doing and focus on ONE thing only is, IMHO, counter-productive.

... but it's hard to type when you're laughing your ass off!

It took me a long and wordy post to say what you've just summed up (BRILLIANTLY, I might add) in a few short sentences.

I know it's a common problem, but to this minute I'm not sure if DDD (Debbie Downer DUism) is a "disease", a "condition", or a "syndrome".

I guess we'll have to wait until Merck Frosst comes up with a drug to combat it to find out how it's defined. Or maybe Dr. Sanjay Gupta can weigh in on the topic tomorrow morning and set us all straight.

I only hope it's one of those things that can be cured in our lifetime.

All the great diseases have alliterative names; "democraticunderground.com Debbie Downer Disease: (or DDDD) is just the logical successor to Beri Beri.

:rofl:

And they DO need to be dealt with - and some of us prefer WORKING to actually expose the problem than declaring there's no hope.

genuine warm heart and clear mind.

Ding. Ding. Ding. Yes.

Anyone on this thread who hasn't read THIS is missing the post of a lifetime:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2647961

Congratulations, Old Crusoe, on an incredible essay that will stay with me (and everyone who reads it) for a long time to come!!!

Thank you for that.

Now back to yours: it was excellent and as you can well see by the response of many DUers, it's hitting the right notes.

And it's much appreciated.

Top of the mornin' to ya!

... and to you.

Your post was clever, well written, and downright inspirational!

make it snappy, dammit!

______
also for DU, a recommend on this one. We all need a hit of affirming energy for these next several years as progressives.

Can we sit in the smoking section?


I can't enjoy a :toast: without a :smoke:!

On another point of your post -- I've often felt a kind of back-of-the-hand treatment when a handful of posters will put up ideas for gaining blue ground, only to have them back-of-the-handed.

My guess is a lot of people feel the Republicans cheated in 2000 and almost as many think they cheated in Ohio in 2004. I have no hard evidence at hand, but between Ken Blackwell and Katherine Harris, I think two big states were stolen from the blue colunn.

Anyway, that's the sturdy point I love in your post, not to mention the appeal of the post for everyone to stay involved and focused. Like it like it like it.

Giving up and giving in isn't in my script.