I'm sick of the intolerance.

If people like Lou Dobbs, or like something in particular that he is doing, they have EVERY RIGHT to discuss it on DU. There is a groupthink mentality by some here which seems determined to squelch every opinion other than theirs. I don't agree with Dobbs about illegal immigration and I admit he's obsessing on it a bit too much, but he has taken some brave and outspoken positions against the * administration. I admire him for this.

The point is nobody has the "authority" here to tell me what to believe and discuss, as long as I'm not breaking any DU rules.

Those of you who hate Dobbs don't have to watch him and certainly can avoid threads which talk about the good things he's doing. You DO NOT have permission to flame me for supporting him when he is sometimes the lone media personality fighting to uphold our Constitution and core Democratic values.

The myopia and rock-headedness exhibited by some on these boards can be truly astounding at times. Certainly, there are some people who's thoughts and ideas warrant no attention whatsoever (Ann Coulter springs to mind), but to discredit everything someone says on the basis of one or more opinions they hold denies a potential wealth of valid arguments in order to feed a particular pique of anger.

Thomas Jefferson possessed slaves. Does that invalidate his beliefs about freedom?

That persons of left and progressive views can differ on the question of illegal immigration. It is not a litmus teat matter here, and there is no official position upholdoing one side or the other.

But this means both sides are free to express their views on the matter, and neither side can expect the other to simply sit down and shut up. The discussion certainly must take place within the bounds of the Forum rules, which include refraining from personal attacks of all sorts against forum members. I would suggest that if persons participating in the discussion feel they are being attacked in such a manner, they use the alert function, and refrain from replying in kind. It may take us a little while to act on an alert, and we might not agree with the alerter it is a violation, but that is the proper course, and following it will help hold the flames to a minimum.

and fanning the flames of xenophobia and racism, you are suggesting we merely ignore that and let you all worship him as you please?

Here's an idea - ask for a Lou Dobbs forum. I can guarantee you I would never go there. :)

I just resent being insulted and flamed for agreeing with him not all, but most, of the time. I have every bit as much right to my opinion as you do.

due to his one-sided reporting.

You seem to think he is a reported whereas I think of his show as a run on editorial or commentary. In that genre isn't it expected that he would present a "one-sided" view?

Which I doubt.

I once had an ignore list so long you couldn't believe it! Now I don't have anyone on my ignore list...because I can't stand being blocked from other opinions, especially those I disagree with!

Freedom of speech is the entire reason for having democracy, IMO we can even learn from the self-centered idiots who always provide insults but never listen to criticism. :thumbsup:

There IS a difference.

sorry had to use a south park reference :)

"I want you to know, boys and girls, there are people in this world who do not love their fellow man, and I HATE people like that."

i know, i know it's probably a typo. please don't change it.
there is a certain authenticity about it.

dp

But my handwriting is worse....

:) :)

"All the world seems in tune on a spring afternoon when we're poisoning pigeons in the park...."

"two, four, six, eight,
time to transubstantiate"

:) :)

"Be prepared to hide that pack of cigarettes, don't make book if can't cover the bets. Keep those reefers hidden where you're sure that they will not be found, and be careful not to smoke them when the Scoutmaster's around, for he only will insist that they be shared --- Be Prepared!"

He's got positions on free trade and things like NAFTA I agree with strongly. His positions on illegal immigrants are difficult to discern. My position is I'd like our nation's borders secured, and I'd like to offer labor protections to these illegal immigrants and have them enrolled for citizenship. If they refuse, then when their work permits expire, they are made to leave.

although I do believe a lot of it is unjustified. What I really resent is some trying to force the DU "pack" to go along with their views, regardless. My eyes and ears are telling me that Dobbs is doing a lot more than many Dems in Congress to curtail corporatism in this country. I stand with him on this, and I resent being lambasted for it. Maybe flaming is part of politics, but that doesn't mean one has to just cringe and take it.

What scares me is the effect this kind of bigoted, blockheaded mindset has on our representatives... How can they vote for what the majority of their constituents want given the climate here?

common sense be damned. :eyes:

you either have all the rights of a citizen or not. We should never issue a work permit to someone, and not give them all the rights and responsibility that a citizen should have. We should never issue a work permit for someone who doesn't pay taxes, or can be treated as anything less than a civilian.

If illegals don't wish to become citizens, then they should leave. If a business is hiring anyone here illegally, they shouldn't have business license in any state!

For me it is common sense for immigrants to become taxpaying citizens..paying into our education, Social Security, and Medicare systems. It is destructive to our country to issue work permits for people who don't have a reason to pay taxes or obey the law!

I have no problem with a person coming here if they are willing to shoulder the tax burden that we all share.

this place is like quicksand, the more you struggle..the deeper you get! :hi:

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

I actually registered a month or so ago. I switched to a new puter a couple of days later. It's taken me this long to get all my info refound. I'm not very organized at times. :)

There isn't much that can be done about that except to confront it where it occurs.

With respect to Dobbs, I generally feel that border security is a priority if one is to address immigration. There can be no functioning immigration policy if a nation cannot even police its own borders, and Dobbs is perfectly justified in slamming both Democrats and Republicans for failing to do nothing since the 1986 amnesty. They both get the portion of the blame.

....I've been put on not just a few ignore lists for supporting or rejecting certain ultra left wing views. That doesn't bother me in the least - what bothers me is the "preaching to the choir" which accomplishes nothing. It's by exploring these divisive views that we eventually come to a consensus that America can grab on to and accept. The ultra left wing doesn't seem to understand that, like it or not, that is the neocon/fundie strong point - they at least seem to agree or find consensus on most things.

Name an issue and it is dear to someone. Or more likely a group of someones.

Post a pro DLC thread and you'll see the staunch anti-DLCers swarm in. Post an anti-DLC thread and watch the pro-DLCers swarm.

It is even worse with personality threads.

There's no group think. There are people on both sides of any issue.

If you want to post anything that has some controversy, have a thick skin or have facts or ... don't post.

I could make a case for him on language, career trajectory, and media impact. No argument there.

I also feel he is obsessed with the Immigration issue but below the veneer of his anti-Bush rants he remains a hardboiled corporate rightwinger.

I support your right to like him, presume you support my right not to, and more than likely, Dobbs will continue each evening doing his thing.

by humanity itself.

It's just people. They'll form a mob if they're passionate enough, or they feel bad enough, and it can be done.

Action=Reaction

support that right wing asshole than don't if that poll on another thread can be considered accurate. what "groupthink" mentality are you complaining about? only the people who DON'T support Lou suffer from it and not the people who support him? sounds like selective labelling of those whom you disagree with.

"You DO NOT have permission to flame me for supporting him when he is sometimes the lone media personality fighting to uphold our Constitution and core Democratic values. "

Dobbs is a racist right wing piece of shit.