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The time has come for Jeffersons Ghost to move on and haunt other houses

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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:06 AM
Original message
The time has come for Jeffersons Ghost to move on and haunt other houses
Perhaps it is time for your friendly neighborhood Ghost to haunt the Daily Kos. I certainly made some enemies here at DU but I have friends as well and they are true blue. To both, I want to proclaim that my name at the Kos will remain Jeffersons Ghost. I am neither proud nor ashamed of my name and work at DU. I am aware that, especially in the early days, I implied some real democrats were "freepers" or "trolls." For those comments I am heartily sorry. I frankly saw them everywhere, even when those goblins weren't there at all, for that is the nature of ghostly visions. Call it a symptom of lurking in this haunted house. To the mods, I offer respect because those noble, hard-working exorcists have done an exquisite job of evicting the evil spirits at this site. To those of you that hold Republican ideals dear, who are currently cheering about Jeffersons Ghost leaving DU, don't break out the champaign just yet. I can haunt two houses simultaneously.

All that said, here's a chance for everyone at DU to play Devil's Advocate and criticize the first post I intend to offer at the Kos. It is in response to a pro-war comment that had a carefully crafted line, which said, "The price of pessimism is the soul."

Optimism about war also has a price.
As a Vietnam Era Veteran, I remember a time when absurdly optimistic statements fueled a national insanity that led to the death of thousands of young Americans. At some point, America began to ask when the craziness would end. Illusion, while offered by our government as a cure, only fed widespread delusion.

If indeed, the price of pessimism is the soul, then the cost of optimism must surely be the mind. The cost of Iraq, measured in dollars, is mind-boggling but that is only a small part of the true expense.

Like Vietnam, the real cost of Iraq will be measured by history in terms of not only personal losses in bodies but also national losses in spirit and mind.

I invite ANYONE to point out a conflict in history where an imperial army has won against an insurgent guerrilla force in the long term. I'm not saying that there are no examples but for every example of a conventional army winning, there are numerous examples of large conventional forces failing more miserably than the USSR in Afghanistan. These conventional forces fail for as long as an insane conflict continues. While governments might promise a rabbit-fast victory, they only become a charlatan-like magician attempting to pull rodents from a hat when they lie.

If we measure losses in terms of mind, body or spirit alone then we ignore at least two legs of a holy triad that can lead to balanced analysis of an issue. Like most aspects of life, balance is the key to success. When success is either unlikely or impossible, is "stay the course" an example of strategy or insanity? Like some bad poker game, played on borrowed funds, the time has come to balance feelings with reason and cut our losses before we economically join the USSR in a lobby of bankrupt losers no longer in the big game.

Call it "cut and run" if acting as a talking head is your style but in poker, it's called cut the losses before the house cuts you from the game.


To both friend and freeper, I want to say "thanks for the mammaries" because just as I have sucked wisdom from the words of my friends, I slurped amunition from freepish Kool-aid filled threads.
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm glad that you "can haunt two houses simultaneously." n/t
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. I really do hope some of you will offer constructive criticism...
so I can fix this OP and hit "post" at the Daily Kos.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. But why Mr. Ghost. Have we offended?
But if you must go, let me thank you especially for your picture threads especially. Very well done, and very touching.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. I'm not leaving, I just intend to expand my haunting to other sites...
You've certainly never offended me. In fact, thanks for being very supportive at DU, Clarkie. Some have tried to offend me but as you know, I can give it to them as good as I get it from them.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
3. piss off, troll....
Just kidding! Best of luck in your new endeavors! :hi:
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
4. Keep it real, JG....
I'll head over there and check you out from time to time.

:toast:
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Minnesota Libra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. I've obviously missed something here but that's fine just a hope that.....
....you are slow to go and fast to return.:grouphug:
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. I can't even post the damn thing... I must be doing something wrong....
Does anyone know why a first time posting attempt might repeatedly fail at the Kos?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. They've got your number? Just kidding.
I think.

}(
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. damn I should have know better than to use my DU nickname...
Naa, they had taken the reich-wing OP I was attempting to answer off their site before I had time to reply. Hat's off to them! Good riddance to bad rubbish.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
7. Don't the "all about me" posts go in the lounge?
Just wondering.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. not if they're of a political nature JNelson6563...
are you new here?
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. yeah, that's it, I'm "new" here
Edited on Wed Jun-21-06 12:23 PM by JNelson6563
Actually, I ask because I am "old" here and I remember when vanity posts (even those with a thin veneer of politics) were put in the lounge.

No matter.

So, after seeing how many times you've replied to this thread I can't help but guess we are in for an extraordinarily long swan song.....

Julie

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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. LOL, you better read the WHOLE OP before celebrating my "swan song"
"To those of you that hold Republican ideals dear, who are currently cheering about Jeffersons Ghost leaving DU, don't break out the champaign just yet. I can haunt two houses simultaneously."
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. No way - J is a longtimer, and a staunch Dem fighter.
She is respected by all who agree or disagree with her positions.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. LOL, blm was figuring on my likely reply! too funny! ...
Edited on Wed Jun-21-06 01:47 PM by Jeffersons Ghost
Okay, I'll take your word for it blm.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
8. You suck
"To both friend and freeper, I want to say "thanks for the mammaries" because just as I have sucked wisdom from the words of my friends, I slurped amunition from freepish Kool-aid filled threads."


:hi: best wishes JG :toast:
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. LOL omega minimo. it was irresistable wasn't it? n/t
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
11. "ya'll come back now. . .
Edited on Wed Jun-21-06 11:55 AM by stellanoir
ya hear. . .?"

JG you are the best.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. not to EVER suggest that you are anything but a true blue Dem patriot....
Stelanoir but keep in mind I wrote "To those of you that hold Republican ideals dear, who are currently cheering about Jeffersons Ghost leaving DU, don't break out the champaign just yet. I can haunt two houses simultaneously." in the OP... Have you ever posted at the Kos? Their "help" button fails and so does their "post" button, whenever I attept to post the statement.
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. LOL
"Roger wilko" (could never figure out that expression) I copied that JG.

Just always appreciate your posts is all.

As for my true bluism. . .yeah I'm a 13th generational american on my mum's side and that gene pool has been boiling for 5 &1/2 years but as a deluded idealist, I really hold dear a purple ideal: a fusion of this red/blue crapola as I really feel there is more that is shared within most human beings than that which divides.

Flag burning and gay marriage and immigration is all a distraction from the undisputable fact that our Constitution is being trashed by people who are simply greedy, short sighted, sadistic subhumans.

That bugs me to no end.

Silly me.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. HEAR HEAR TO THAT STELLANOIR!!!
you write, "the indisputable fact that our Constitution is being trashed by people who are simply greedy, short sighted, sadistic subhumans."

Actually, while my views were extremely leftist for someone with such a staunchly conservative Democratic upbringing, I didn't get behind the party until Russ stood alone against a tyrant that pushed the USA Patriot Act through the legislature like Stalin on steroids.
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. It's truly mind numbing isn't it?
Ouch.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. That USA Patriot Act is why I chose Jeffersons Ghost as a nick...
What bugs me is that with all the chimps other crap, we barely have time to write great OPs supporting the work of Feingold. This place was once FULL of Feingold OPs. I hardly ever see one these days. I think it's some monkey business that's working. I call it "OUTRAGE OVERLOAD."
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. "Outrage overload" is truly apt.
It's like another week another scandal. Yikes.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. You are a true patriot and intellectual!
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. as to being a true patriot, I plead guilty...
On "intellectual" matters, I simply specialize in crazy. You should see some of the stuff I've posted at DU! LOL
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
16. You'll be missed here
And I'm sorry to see you leave. :(
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
17. Please make sure you come back for visits. n/t
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
20. See you around, friend..
I wouldn't change a word of that post. Good luck getting it on Kos, I can never figure out that place.

Keep your lamp trimmed and burnin'
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. ah ha! the reason it wouldn't post & I couldn't find the thread again...
was because by the time I wrote my reply Kos had pulled it off the site. Probably they pulled it because it was so reich-wing in the first place. It's easy enough to post other things on more typically Democratic OPs there.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
32. Oh, no, you don't
We won't let you go :pals:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
33. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Actually, I didn't read the OP
I can't stand reading your paranoid, senseless drivel. So I admit it. I only read the subject line. You Freeper accusation here is against the rules of this site, Democratic Underground, where, I might add, I have been a member in good standing far longer than you've been infecting these boards with your ridiculous paranoia. I feel bad for any member of Kos who doesn't live up to your weirdo idea of purity, for they shall surely be denounced more quickly than a dissident in 1950's Moscow. Your first post should actually have been called "The Commissar's in Town."
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
36. May the wind be always at your back
And may your nlp continue to improve for the benefit of the house.
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
37. I think you need some time away from all of this.
Stay away from the news and the computer for awhile.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
38. Go if you must..but the Spirit Remains...
Cheers to you JG :toast:

Hope you stop by once and a while....
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 04:18 AM
Response to Original message
39. thanks for the intelligent conversation
Something that is appreciated by those that understand you don't have to always agree with someone to admire them. My very best regards to you.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 05:24 AM
Response to Original message
40. Hit 'em where it hurts, Jefferson's Ghost!
Edited on Fri Jun-23-06 05:26 AM by Major Hogwash
How many more months will our troops be in Iraq until we achieve "success"?

How do the Republicans define "success"?

They're the ones in charge of this debacle - we demand answers to our questions!!

How many more years will our troops be in Iraq until we all come to the sudden realization that invading Iraq was a mistake?

When will that moment of "clarity" hit the rest of the nation?

My gawd, man, I thought we learned our lesson in Vietnam.

Some of them even called it the "Vietnam Syndrome."

I thought it was called wisdom gained from making war based on lies - Lesson #1.

If the Republicans don't want to redeploy our troops by the end of the year from Iraq, is success - as they define it - really that close? That was the gist behind the Senate Democrats' 1st amendment offered by Reed the other day, shot down 60 - 34.

If the Republicans don't want to redeploy our troops in 6 months, will another 6 months really help? That was the gist behind the Senate Democrats' 2nd amendment offered by Kerry and Finegold the other day, and it was shot down 84 - 13.

If we won't have success - as defined by the Republicans - for another year, will 18 months be enough?

How about in 2 years?

And where does it end from there?
3 years?
4 years?
5 years?

Because it isn't going to make any difference how much longer we stay in Iraq, because when we leave - and we will leave Iraq, eventually - the power vacuum will be in place in Iraq, and then their civil war - between all 3 factions - will begin in earnest.

No matter how long we stay - 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years - they will fight with each other for control of their own country - no matter who is President of the United States at that time, be it John Kerry, Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, John McCain, George Allen, Jeb Bush, or Alfred E. Neuman!!

We already learned this lesson in Vietnam.
When we're gone, once we're gone - they're going to do what they want.

Vietnam is not 2 countries.
It's 1 country.
There is no "free" South Vietnam, there's only 1 Vietnam.

We're spending 9 billion dollars a month in Iraq today.
How much of our future are we going to piss down the drain in the sands of Iraq?
110 billion dollars a year!

How much can we afford?
Gas is already at $3.50/gallon.

We were supposed to have a 6 month war, greeted by flowers and grateful Iraqis, and have lower gas prices.

Three years later, they can't kill enough of our troops fast enough to suit them, and gas prices have gone out the roof!

800 American men and women have been killed in Iraq each of the last 3 years.
It's now more than 2500 Americans killed in a war based on lies of WMD, then "regime change", then "spreading Democracy".

Enough already!!

Stop this freakin' war!!

Hit 'em where it hurts, Jefferson's Ghost!!
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