I dont understand how siding with Right-Wingers= "Moderate" or "Centrist"

This is brought about by the 31 Democrats who sided with Bush instead of the Democratic base today.

How does voting with the far right= "moderate" or "centrist"?

Is supporting a war based on the lies of Far-Right-wingers "moderate" or centrist? HOW?

Is siding with the Far Right on gay-baiting & opposing civil rights moderate or centrist? HOW?

I'm tired of Pro-Bush Democrats LYING to me, telling me that by siding with the far right, they are "moderate."

You are not taking a "moderate" or "centrist" position when you side with the far right- you are taking a far right, pro- Bush position.

I dont believe it anymore when I'm told that Democrats are "moving to the center"- that is a lie- they are moving to the FAR RIGHT when they support far right positions.

Pass it on.

Some Democrats are too afraid Karl Rove might call them mean names to actually take a meaningful position on Iraq.

WTF is the POINT of the Levin amendment? "Well, we think that, at some point, the US ought to leave Iraq, but we don't really want to set a deadline because, well, that might be too hasty, and we don't want to cut and run, but at the same time, we should think about leaving by the end of the year - nothing concrete, mind you - so we'll propose this resolution asking Bush to start withdrawing troops by January - that is, if he thinks it's a good idea, and all."

Can you GET any more mealy-mouthed and triangulating than that?

Edit: I WILL say one thing: I respect Joe Lieberman more than these cowards. Joe, at least, is openly pro-Iraq war. You know where he stands. The rest of them, barring the brave 13 who voted to END THE WAR, are milquetoast Chamberlains of the worst kind, too afraid of their own shadow to stand for anything.

n/t

for years. Yes, the Democratic party has conservatives. These conservatives, like all conservatives, are blind to the fact that they're out of step with the majority. They like to call themselves centrists. It makes them feel less loony.

I can call myself a living Barbie doll, but that isn't going to make is so, either.

Anybody who calls these party conservatives "centrist" is doing a disservice to all of us.

No, I'm not advocating a purge, that's what THEY do. However, I am advocating a counter movement to decrease their disproportionately large influence on the party.

So before people set up the "purge" strawman to knock down- please know that I am not asking for a purge- I'm asking for honesty.

When you take a FAR RIGHT position, dont LIE to me and tell me it is "moderate" or "moving to the center"- be honest with yourself and with us and say you are taking a CONSERVATIVE or far-right position.

Great points- thanks.

Is supporting a war based on the lies of Far-Right-wingers "moderate" or centrist? HOW?

I don't think today's vote was on whether or not the far right was being truthful by starting the war; the question is moot.

Your reply shows a willingness to give 31 pro-Bush democrats a pass on letting the GOP/media (the far right) frame the debate.

Nothing moderate or centrist about that, is there?

Saying the question is moot opens the doors to MORE wars based on lies- a far right concept- certainly not moderate.

Not considering HOW we got into this war is to give comfort and support to the far right.

I think your framing of this whole thing hinges on it. What that these 31 did today constituted "supporting" and how?

And in turn, I have no choice but to believe that these 31 agrees with & supports the far right on this.

Supporting the far right and the wars they lied us into is certainly not centrist or moderate, no matter how you frame it.

See you in November.

I dont blame you for bowing out of our argument early- I realize it's hard to argue in favor of supporting the far right.

See you in November.

wealth. The Dems who continue to support the 'war' really are supporting contractors/arms manufacturers and probably are collecting dough from lobbyists. Those who vote to repeal the 'death tax' are voting for their wealthy contributors. Those who vote against civil rights and gays are voting from fear of losing the 'christian' vote and thereby losing all of the above.

n/t

the center is now slightly left of far right! I never thought of myself as a 'lefty' but here I am part of the left wing wacko group. That's ok, the company of the other left wing wackos is great to be in.

I am NOT a freaking hate-monger or right winger- and I wish these conservative Democrats would stop saying that far right positions are in line with my position on the political spectrum.

It would be more honest of them to say that "many Amercians are conservative or to the right on issue A" than to lie and say position A is centrist or moderate.

they are enemies, pure and simple.

they work for the other side--the fascist corporatist ruling elite

See you in November.

...we will see you in November.

I think he may not have what it take to debate you guys.

But don't worry (as if it's a loss at ALL), he'll soon take you off his ignore list to argue and then put you back on, as he has done to others, myself included. He likes his little games.

(Trust me, your being on his list is NO loss to you.)

all over them. I'll say that.

then I'll put a D by my name in Movember so LoZoccolo will vote for me because I'm a "Democrat."

Judge them by what they do. Open your eyes.

Centrists go on and on about how the country is at the center and how it's impossible to win without winning the elusive "center". I don't see any republicans trying to move to the center, or anyone advising them to do so. The more extreme they get, the more votes they get, even though all the polls show that large majorities of Americans support liberal values such as universal health care, a higher minimum wage, and abortion rights.

There are no votes in the center. Americans support politicians who stick to their principles, regardless of whether they agree with them. Trying so hard to move to the mythic "center" is what makes democrats look undecided and unprincipled. Democrats need to move left to get people's attention (and votes).

True moderates do not support wars based on lies, and true centrists are opposed to using hatred to get votes.

Nothing "moderate" about supporting those who sent us to war based on hoax- and nothing centrist about endorsing hate against tax-payers over who they have sex with.

Always a good question, Doc.

Never a good answer, though, and I doubt one exists.

Have no fear! DU's finest dlcentrist apologists will be along shortly to attack, obfuscate, and redirect.

What part of that don't you understand??? :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

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ate one of your colons.

The way I figure it, that makes me a moderate!



The preceding is entirely fictional and was intended only for entertainment purposes.

any way -- i'm in agreement with you.

further more -- there are no moderates any more in my opinion.

you nailed it in your description that moderate means agreeing with the far right position in this country.

and it means acquiescing continued control of our political system to corporations.

smear you as an extremist who is out of touch with America.

I want big taxcuts for my media outlet's parent corporation and myself. And any other ways you can change the law to get me more of Americas' citizens' money.

because I am in a positive mood.

the others we will convert.

at least, for those who self-label themselves as centrists within the democratic party.
to even use the term "centrist" is the code that they feel the rest of the democratic party (in fact, the majority) are left wing fringe nutjobs. for them to consider themselves "centrist" means they feel the rest of the democratic party has gone astray.

THAT is why the DLC and other "centrists" are dangerous. Their intent is to reshape the party into republican-lite.

and thus, 'lunatic', by contrast. I's the standard trick of the GOP and the GOP wannabes, the DLC/GOP-Lite. The whole game is to shift the entire discourse to the right so that their outrageous ideas will seem more palatable. It has worked really well. When I hear some of the folks describe themselves as 'moderates' or 'centrists' on this board and spew right wing crap it makes my toes curl.