America is not a democracy and it never has been

When America was founded only white-male-property owners were allowed to vote.

It took nearly a century and a half before women were given the right to vote, and while blacks were granted the constitutional right to vote shortly after the Civil War they were not able to effectively exercise that right until the mid 60's when the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act were passed.

We are limited to a two party system, and lets face it unless you coddle the corporate donors you barely even have the option to run for any major office. The two parties generally limit the options to the establishment favorites, and the system is set up to ensure that the two party rule is never seriously challenged.

We have an electoral college system that ensures that some peoples votes count more than others, and we have political gerrymandering that artificially protects incumbents and takes power away from voters. We have a system in which a candidate can often win without a majority of the votes, and they still are able to grab all the power.

Then there are the shall we say, interesting methods of counting the votes. We leave our elections to faith. We are not given a chance to review the election results, in fact on many electronic machines there is not even a way to review them. Even when there is a paper trail however it is extremely difficult to get a recount, even when the results are highly suspect.

Now don't get me wrong I love my country, although my government is legitimized mainly through myth. George Bush never won an election, and there was never a time when our elections were actually conducted fairly.

Yet despite the fact that our nation has never been a democracy the people have been able to win some great victories. Civil Rights were not gained at the ballot box they were obtained in the streets. Yes voting is important, but participating is even more important. They can find ways to ensure your votes are not counted, but they can not silence your voice. Yet. Let us fight for a democracy we never had before it is too late.

as some perfer a Representive Democracy.

just imagine..if Democrats lose the next election, we might see a financial merger of our two parties. After all, cheap labor and corporate profits are part of a global economy!

then a republic can be a democracy, a dictatorship or a theocracy

Democracy is a form of government. A democracy can be a monarchy or a republic, but not a theocracy or a dictatorship. Then the forms of applying democracy can differ from democracy to democracy, presidential system, parliament system, even direct democracy (referendum based).

people mix often the two concepts. Today's USA is a republic with a failing democracy due mostly to a too strong presidential power and inherent flaws in its representative and judiciary system. Cheating at elections is a sign that the democracy is gliding towards dictatorship. The biased media and the religious influence are bad signs too. But it isn't still a dictatorship. Or else DU wouldn't exist.

Yes your are correct....well said!
Lets Take Back Our Country!:dem:

Democracy ideally started out and was maintained as a constitutional democracy versus a majoritarian democracy. In a majoritarian democracy, the laws are passed according to a simple majority of the people through their representatives -- 51% or higher, no matter what. In a constitutional democracy, it seems like a majoritarian democracy until the laws impinge on the fundamental rights and/or civil rights of a minority within the population; then the constitution protects them from the will of the majority (e.g., otherwise there would be wholesale legal discrimination based on race, religion, ethnic background, national origin, gender, etc.)

What is interesting here is the incremental change from constitutional democracy to the appearance of majority democracy, but really, it's a total bypass of rights altogether. Congress is not passing laws according to the will or needs of their constituents, but rather its benefactors (lobbyists, contributors), thus making our system more of an oligarchy, but claiming otherwise. The majority of voters have not called them on it -- yet, if ever. Congress is going through the motions of a democracy. And the aider and abettor of this destruction are the courts that haven't ruled that the system has broken down, and that Congress is not "by the People, of the People."

And I'm starting to wonder if it ever was, with the exception of strong leadership in the White House in the past who called Congress on its charade.

Res Publica

:wow: of course the CCP gets most of its power from the Chinese constitution, just like the Electoral College gets the power to elect our Presidents.

those that tout representation start actuating and defining it toward LACK of popular representation, some privileged elite who very obviously know better than the masses. it is not technique but inequality and superiority that starts defining "Republic" very quickly to what Rome became. the republic as such lost itself and became a shadow mockery.

Well, what of our Republic from that same party the GOP whose Congress is mocked, subverted, ignored and used by its own president not even as a plaything but as something of zero consequence. they have a shadow "government" too and Lord knows under what theory that functions.

I think every term and idea is abused by the lie that covers everything. One cannot debate republic and democracy anymore than one could trust them to "reform" the Constitution. it is hard to dignify ideas in a debate with liars seeking venal personal advantage only. The forefathers certainly had much less dishonesty but we cannot debate them in absentia post mortem. They too were split in a more civilized way unified against royal tyranny and so much self selected personal privilege. they favored democracy as a balance against the elite and the leading citizens as a control against the mob. The French Revolution seemed to confirm their point and they too produced a Republic that lead to Empire in short order. For their times they chose balance.

In our times the GOP chooses elite privilege AND mob bullying to create that sort of Republic that degrades and degrades faster for the anachronism of its lie. And people die and the state perishes as a whole long after its brain and soul have become loot encrusted mush.

Voting is about voting for one of two multimillionaires that control the media and campaigns, mostly.

Were meant to be Republic, or representative Democracy...

However, in fact suffrage has been widened consistently, though slowly since the founding.

...a more appropriate slogan would be: "No representation without taxation". People who have taxable incomes, yet pay no taxes due to the special privileges state legislatures and Congress give them, should not be allowed to vote, as they do not contribute to the common good. Similarly, the largest corporations who get away with paying no corporate income tax should be denied the right to contribute to political campaigns for the same reason. Think of it as turning "pay to play" into "won't pay? can't play."

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

We have a winner take all election process....

It would naturally gravitate toward two parties in order to maintain competative balance...

Several smaller parties only detract from which ever main party has the weaker coalition building skills...

That or the fact there are two many peole out there who confuse the American style of democracy with the western European style of democracy....

Over there, coming close gets you a seat or two in the government...

Over here, coming close gets you zilch...

We need instant runnoff voting and a congress that truly represents the interests of Americans. Not these gerrymandered districts, with candidates that can only run because they can raise money from the wealthy elite.

the presidency is obviously winner take all but the congress could be constructed of coalitions just as the parlimentary system is.

Not while the districts are winner take all....

You gotta play by the rules as they was written....

I am saying we need to raise our voice and call for change rather than pretending our system is democratic when it really is not.

I believe democracy is possible, but in order to obtain it we all need to recognize we do not have it now.

but what evolved was representative democracy. I find it interesting that rightwingers who loudly proclaim that the U.S. is a republic, not a democracy are OK with the referendum process in western states, which of course is closer to direct democracy. They think the Founders would also be OK with that.

Is the same....

One of the reason laws originating and perculating through the system is that there is compromise and discussion...

On the ballot, it's all take it or leave it...

can only be good.

Look shared districts will never take place in this country...

seeing it as a problem to change it. Maybe that's what *'s purpose is, to show up the severe deficiencies of our deeply flawed system.

Is that irony or way of destabilizing our "rivals".

Check the sig.

the USA moved steadily TOWARD an enlightened Social Democracy.
This "movement toward" was the source of HOPE and INSPIRATION.

During the Reagan years, this process was reversed, and the USA is now accelerating toward Fascism. Even the interlude of a Democratic administration in the 90's did nothing to stop this slide.


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

which historically has only included some people, whoever is part of the demos. Not everyone in ancient Athens was a citizen or could vote. Only males, of a certain age, not ostracized, who lived in the area, who were not slaves, etc. So while it is a worthy effort to make sure the number of voting participants is as wide as possible, I wouldn't say that US is not nor has not been a democracy. I think it is an issue of where we really are honoring the democracy that we claim to have. Or rather, we are expanding who is part of the demos.

If democracy meant everyone can vote, then children would have to be included. Voting age used to be 21, now it's 18.

over him. I don't get your head chopped off, but you will lose your livelihood.

Multi-party Parliamentary systems seem more democratic.

America seems to be a Plutocracy.

excluding citizenship in our republican democracy is the biggest error we have been fixing ever since the founding. The struggle continues...