A message to the lurking freepers: a lie is not a difference of opinion

You told us there were Weapons of Mass Destruction. You told us that Iraq was responsible for 9/11. You told us that Bush's tax cuts would help low and middle income people. You told us that global warming was a myth.

You went on and on with your lies, and now you demand time to lie some more. If we don't want to listen to your crap then you will tell us that we are not open to differences of opinion.

You know what though, a lie is not a difference of opinion. A lie is a lie.

I am sick to death of the Republicans demands for equal airtime to balance the truth with their lies, and I am even more sick that the corporate media goes a step further and lets the liars dominate their panels.

I am all for putting people on the air who disagree with my views, they can put all the far-right extremists on that they want as long as they demand those extremists are honest. As soon as they start sputtering their lies however, they are no longer merely expressing their opinion and no one should have to listen to them any longer.

Until Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Glen Beck, Ann Coulter, and all the other liars are fired then the "news" media has absolutely zero credibility. When their pundits lie and the media lets them get by with it they better not expect that we are going to believe the "facts" they present us.

I want a debate in this country that is based on facts, not a debate based on lies. I don't understand how anyone could claim that is closed minded, but I know people will inevitably try. There may be two sides to every story, but there is not two sides to every fact.

"There may be two sides to every story, but there are not two sides to every fact."

Now, THAT is a great line - I'd love to hear some Dems use it on-air!

:kick: and REC!

There aren't two sides to ANY fact - only two sides to how to respond to facts.

If somebody is saying there are two sets of facts, somebody is lying right out of the gate.

.....just off the top of my head, but what about the pessimist/optimist view?

The pessimist says the glass is half empty, the optimist says it's half-full?

I'm all for two sides of a FACT, as long as it's TRUE.

In this case, no-one's saying the glass has nitroglycerine in it.

Or the red's stuff in the glass is tomato juice, when it's clearly blood.

That much I despise.

The fact of the amount of water in the glass is the same, when measured. The opinion or response about the water can be debated, but not the fact of the glass, the water, or the measured amount. Facts are facts.

..... and as humans, we all have that.

It's based on our knowledge. our attitude, and our emotions (fear, happiness, etc.). It's two (or more) ways of looking at a fact. The fact may not change, but the way it's "reported" can be.

What I'm saying is, I can put a positive or a negative slant on the same thing. You learn this in English, how to construct sentences to convey a certain viewpoint.

Yes, the water and glass doesn't change, but how I intend someone else to digest the info, ahhhhhhh........

Reporters are supposed to be trained to keep bias (viewpoint) out of their information ("just the facts, ma'am"). However, sometimes it's difficult to keep the personal bias out - even if your boss isn't holding a gun to your head so that the public ONLY gets the news he wants reported.

Gosh, I could swear that's what I said, just like you just did. Opinion isn't fact to begin with so there's no way to report two sides to the facts. We need to start demanding reporters stick to facts and when they are repeating opinions, they need to verify that any fact within those opinions is the truth. You don't need to have any special skills to separate your own biases from fact from other peoples' opinions.

Well said!

What you want to be true is not the same as what is ACTUALLY true. You're opinions based on wishful thinking are not the same as those who have actually studied the subject. Because you don't like the truth, doesn't make it less true or turn it into "spin". Just because you don't like a fact doesn't mean it was created by the "Liberal Media".

The corruption of information we've seen in this country during the Bush years is appalling.

maintins 'a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth.' Not unlike a cult mentality. When you suround yourself with folks who nod their heads in unison at lies you will eventually be forced to nod your head as well just to fit in with their social structure.

Remembering the Goebbels Principle:

A big lie repeated often enough becomes the truth.

Offend a Conservative – Use Your Brain
Support Our Troops – Bring Them Home Now
http://aproudliberal.blogspot.com/

You have done an excellent job capturing what is wrong with the right-wing dominance of the MSM. The problem is not one of allowing different views and philosophies of governing to be heard (although it would be nice if RW and conservative views could be more counter-balanced with left, progressive, or even centrist views), the crux of the issue is the tolerance and even encouragement of outright lies.

“You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to your own facts.”

:kick:nine!

"I am even more sick that the corporate media goes a step further and lets the liars dominate their panels....I am all for putting people on the air who disagree with my views, they can put all the far-right extremists on that they want as long as they demand those extremists are honest."

You think the owners are impartial?

and Viacom. Nope not a progressive in the bunch and between them own or control over 90% of the print and broadcast media. I wonder why the sheep don't have a clue... Thanks Bill. :eyes:

I hope it did not sound like I was suggesting otherwise.

all on their own. Of course there will always be that die hard, brain dead base which when stripped back of it's own fence sitters, isn't much of a base at all.

because for years I participated on a political forum in which the reichists did that very thing - anytime you disagreed with them, they called you a liar. It's amazing that so many breathing and functioning people seemingly have no idea what the difference is between the concepts.

Or, of course, maybe they know quite well - which opens another discussion.

7 posted on 08/27/2006 2:01:08 PM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)

they just like what they are hearing....the problem is, like you say MN, when they try to pretend these lies are legitimate debate - it stinks

My brother recently told me I just wasn't open to listening to the other side, just like you mention. Of course it's bull.
I just have enough of a brain to not buy into the lies and propaganda. That's why the neocons hate us "libruls" so much...because
we are too smart to fall for their mind-meld shit tactics and it drives them crazy.

Great post.

:kick:

I take great consolation in knowing that if there is going to be a "rapture", that those who spread or supported the lies of the Republican Party, even by their silence, will burn in agony and not be a participant. When no rapture comes for them, they'll just be left with the burden of living a disgraced life of lies that have contaminated the word of God and the dignity and decency of humankind.

they are full of the hate that blinds them. This world would be a better place without their kind of filth.

And most are still waiting for help. Many don't even have their FEMA trailers yet. And bodies are still being recovered.

I've been thinking the same thing myself for a very long time. Only you said it better than I could have.