Spineless dems

Of course anything, even idi amin, is better than re electing republicans to power but lets face it - we are in this mess because democrats dont know how to stand up for anything. They always react to republican taunts and fall into the same trap over and over again. They should have stood up and demanded concrete proof for the invasion of iraq instead of worrying about being called traitors. They didnt even stand up to bush's dismissal of habeas corpus. Based on their past performance, i dont hold much hope of dems holding on to power for too long if they win this election.

:eyes:

nt

Care to elucidate?

The Dems continue to have no actual position - other than "we'll fuck the average Amerivcan slightly less than the Rethugs". After 12 years of this stance, they'll finally win some seats - but, really, they won't have won them - rather the Rethugs will have lost them.

I suspect that in two years there'll be a bunch of fresh-faced rosey-cheeked Hitler-youth running as Rethugs, and, once again, they'll clean our clock - UNLESS we get some Dems with spine in the picture, like Feingold, Conyers, and the born-again Al Gore.

i have only received two thoughtful responses to my post and you are one of them. Unfortunately emotion seems to rule here rather than reason. Oh well - thanks again,

"Historian", eh? No wonder your take is so accurate.

Face it, Neanderthals vote for Republicans these days and they are turned off because this administration, in simplest terms, does not know how to fight. If Democrats gain control and by some miracle the Iraq situation gets better they can claim some credit for that and retain power.

That really tells me all I need to know.

far from it. Im just saying that unless they change their ways well all fall into same old trap of becoming targets of idiotic slogans - its a reality that needs to be faced. Its no use calling someone names because they expose reality - rather we should fight to improve our position and never let the repukes take over again.

our party's turnout and thats VERY negative. Its two weeks before the most important election of the last 30 years. We have the wind at our backs. When you (or anyone)takes this critical time to disparage the party I've loved and worked for for over thirty years, it pisses me off big time. Like most people here, I'm a loyal Democrat.

Perhaps next year I'll be open to a debate on the core principles of my party and where it should be centered, but today (and for the next two weeks) I am a Democrat who wants to win and I'm not really open to hearing that my party is out of touch.

This is not the time for Democrats to dissect their party, nor are DUers particularly interested in hearing how we're not up to the job. Now is not the time for negativism. however well-intentioned.

Lets talk in January. With Senator Webb, Tester, Brown, Whitehouse, Casey and McCaskill, maybe things will look different.

If anyone wants to discuss dem. failures and starts with the phrase "spineless" that tells me all I need. If you must post that crap at this critical time, take it outside. I lived with the last dictator want to be, Nixon and there is too much at risk here.Be constructive or shut-up.

Isn't it remarkable how good Richard Nixon looks today? Compared to Shrub, he looks like Lincoln.

you are exactly the type of person the repukes love. If you dont like it, shut up. thats not very constructive is it?

It's not negativism; on the contrary if we aware of the dangers in the future and act now to correct them then we will always win. I not only want the dems to win, perhaps more than you do, but i want them to stay in power in at least one house or the white house.

your original post is incredibly negative and, coming two weeks before THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION OF A LIFETIME, very poorly timed. Just my opinion, but reread it for yourself.

As a party, the Democrats could be better (what party couldn't). But now is the time to come together and accentuate our commonality, not to draw apart and emphasize our ifferences. Thats all your post does-high light Democratic shortcomings. What purpose is served by discouraging your side right now?

United, fghting hard, maybe we can win. That's the only chance we have and GOD I want to win so damn bad!

just stating a fact...why don't you tell he or she or me, for that matter, where he or she is wrong.

RC

this is primarily a Democratic website. Having been here for 4 years, I know that (especially when elections are near) posters who tear down Democrats and are strongly discouraged. We want to ELECT Democrats, not discourage voting.

The initial post served no purpose except to divide our side and dissuade people from working for the Democratic party. Maybe thats okay with you, but it isn't with me, nor does it fit with the stated aims of the administrators of this site. Two weeks before the most important election of the last thirty years is a poor time to try to divide.

I'm well aware of what this website is....and I suggest you read it's mission statement. It's not a cheerleading center it's a discussion board, which means we discuss...specifically politics. If you don't care to discuss them then feel free to leave.



RCD

How did my post not classify as that? What sort of n onsense as you sprouting about cheerleading? Thats an infantile comment if i ever heard one.

that your bitching about...

RC

both our profiles, you'll find I've been here about a year longer than you (unless you had a different username, but then maybe I did too....).

Anyway, my point remains-this is a Democratic discussion board, and two weeks before a major election is a rather suspicious time to start posting divisive messages tearing down Democrats.

and they were good, though the OP would insist that the only thoughtful responses have been the ones that agree with his point of view.

I'm not suspicious of the motive. This reminds me of a CNN segment years ago during the anthrax scare. It was entitled, "But what about smallpox?" Something in human nature just dictates that if there's a chance people may find something to feel good about, there's always someone around - however well-intentioned - who'll remind them that no matter how well things are going, there's always a possibility that a giant comet will strike the earth and we'll all die.

ON EDIT: I type like a baboon...!

It's a perfect time for Democrats to gain a set of testicles and act like it....It's a perfect time to call those who don't....cause if they don't have them now they ain't gonna grow 'em later.

RC

Well, thats pretty obvious, now isn't it. Anything that hurts the cause and tears down the party two weeks before a major election.

I care about electing candidates that are virtuous and capable of completing the work for which they are asking my support.

I guess your goal is different....shit guess....I know it is different. Your a joiner my friend...you want to join a group. Unfortunately it's the group you join and not the message...sad really.

RC

Exactly. I think that's the point Rowdyboy's been trying to make. Thanks for clearing it up for us.

You and Rowdyboy would vote for Donald Rumsfeld or Dick Cheney as long as they changed there party to Democat, right?

RC

Give me a break. You know what we're talking about.

Perhaps you should read my post a little more carefully. I was not dividing, i was merely pointing out a basic weakness of the dem party and if they want to retain power that has to change. How is that divisive? And you think that because i raised that point that immediately puts me in the same realm as repukes? If you think that way and believe that any form of criticism or comment is uncalled for then perhaps you should become a repuke because that is what they have done so successfuly since shit head took over the white house.

for an intelligent response rather than the instinctive shut up or an insult.

in *both* houses had very limited opportunities to block much of the majority's legislation, let alone the actions of the Bush administration.

I hear your complaint about our response to Republican slams and their spin that we are either soft on defense or traitors. I would've liked a more vigorous answer from Congressional Democrats, as well. But, I'm not writing off the party as spineless nor blaming them for the mess we are in.

The Bush administration, with a willing Congress - controlled by Republicans - and an eager corporate structure stretching from California and Texas to K Street, DC, engineered this fiasco.

Thanks.

(ed for spell)

There wasnt much they could do in terms of legislation but they should have made such a stink that would have given the repukes a moment for pause.

I'm sure this'll be widely appreciated over the next couple weeks.:eyes:

I thought that dem underground had thoughtful and intelligent people who were willing discuss other points of view but instead all i get are insults and idiotic remarks. Well if thats the case then we are truly lost.

Democratic failure over the last 6 years isn't being met with cheers. I think - I believe - that the thoughtful and intelligent people here, and there are thousands of them, are well aware of the history of Dem appeasement, Dem capitulation and Dem miscalculation leading up to where we're at today. Why on earth, a couple of weeks out from the most important midterm in recent history, do we need this reminder of it?

Do you really not have room in your heart and mind for just a little optimism and steadfastness now?

judging by the replies i got i can only assume that people want to bury their head in the sands. On the contrary, this is the time to be aware of our weakness and to do something about it. Since all the polls show that we will have a significant victory let us not sit on our laurels and congratulate ourselves. We are dealing with a vicious and cunning opponent and we need to be very aware of that.

I now you've been on DU for a long time, but you're talking as though you just arrived. I cannot begin to understand the rationale or the utility or the relevance of posting something like this in late October.

Dark Side keep accounts here just to stir up shit. Never let someone's post count stop you from speaking your mind.

I've seen some strange people fly under the radar for a long time. It may be wishful thinking, but I believe this poster isn't one of those. See my response to you upthread for a longer explanation.

of trying to swing the party more to "The Center" and away from the "Radical Left" . . . (um . . . that's us) . . .

of course what they're deceptively calling The Center was, until a very few years ago, the Radical Right . . .

and what they're calling the Radical Left used to be The Center . . .

using deceptive language may, in the short run, strengthen one's position politically . . . but since it involves playing "We, The People" for fools, it eventually catches up to you . . .

and the cost of deceiving those you (pretend to) represent -- US -- is incalculable . . . just you wait and see . . .

Certainly, the DNC has improved under Howard, so that doesn't really apply to them any longer. THe DLC is the faction of Dems triangulating us all to the Right.

TC

There was nothing that they could have done to stop it, even if they had been the majority. Bush did NOT need the approval of congress to attack Iraq.

The main reason the dems come off spineless or as flip floppers is because they cannot appeal to both the main pool of voters they need to win GE, and to many activists who are off in left field.

The underlying assumption in your spineless theory is that there is no change in public opinon that politicians must take note of. You think politicans can just tell people what to believe and they should believe it.

"Spineless dems" did not lock this thread.