It's Not Maple Syrup Dean's Out Selling

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/whispers/articles/061203/11whisplead.htm



Well, the way it is written is kind of sillyish, but it sure gets across the point of what Howard Dean is trying to do. Interesting.

And the video from his well-received speech in Montreal.

Part 1, about 9 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDNY5sX9CL4

Part 2 about 9 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61YPUdO1i5M

he doesn't have foreign policy experience.

the Presidency.

Democracy exists only when the people participate. Dean's 50 state strategy has proven that. Now, he's becoming an ambassador of democracy to the world.

:kick:

...when they see it. And this will only bolster his creds, in preparation for what I hope will be another presidential run--if not in '08, then in 2012 or 2016.

I remember being appalled that she wanted to stay in Vermont and take care of her patients while Dean was on the campaign trail.

When people like me started talking about that, suddenly, he produced her, but by then it was too late.

The presidency is a two-person post. She would have to become First Lady. We need someone who backs up her/his spouse in the secondary role; not someone who wants her own life in rural Vermont.

Voters can understand that if you give them a chance. We need to get over the idea of wives being a decorative accessory to their husbands in political campaigns.

I can't believe anyone would criticize her for that.

What a thing to be appalled by! A dedicated doc who recognized her obligation to her patients, and felt it was more important than being trotted out along the ol' campaign trail. And the presidency is most certainly NOT a two person job. Check both the constitution and history.

then she's an evil feminist with a mind of her own that doesn't have the right stuff to be First Lady, doncha know? There isn't enough Xanax on the planet to make it so.

We have had many women who have supported their spouses as well as struck out on their own. However, Mrs./Dr. Dean was quite equivocal during the primary as I recall. She only showed up towards the latter part of the primary campaign, and that was after many people, women and men, discussed what her role would/should be if Howard Dean became president.

I know a lot of Democrats will argue against this, but I do believe she has made an indelible mark on this subject in my mind.

Sincerely,

One True Feminist from the 1950s/Radio_Lady

without a spouse. I sincerely hope Judy Dean left an indelible mark. I hope people realize that a candidate doean't have to have a political wife.

husband to events.

It was in the primary season that all of this came to light. My husband and I were working for Howard Dean at the time -- passing out literature at our local farmers' markets.

All of the biographical material I have seen does not refer to her as "Judy Dean." It all refers to Dr. Judith Steinberg. I assume this is her maiden name. Perhaps if Howard Dean gets further along in the primary process next time, this will all get cleared up.

Thank you for your comments.

It is totally misrepresenting the relationship they have.

He is not even running and you did a bullshit attack on his wife.

Lovely.

you're going to have to do it to another DUer. Please see post #15 upthread. You have your wires totally crossed on this one. But, of course, that's what happens when you spew without thinking. It's happening more and more these days. I have no idea why.

Good night and good luck,

Radio_Lady (former Floridian but not mad!!!)

I think you're dead wrong here. I think we'd have more to criticize if she had've abandoned her oath as a physician in order to play politics from the beginning. A doctor's first obligation is to his or her patients, not her husband's political ambitions.

I think it's something to admire, not criticize.

marries??
Doesn't sound too "true blue feminist" (as you describe yourself in a post below) to me.


And she's a physician, not a decorative accessory to her husband.

may prove to be a hinderance to Howard Dean's quest for the presidency.

Please understand: I am a true blue, through and through feminist. I'm not asking her to stay home and bake cookies! BUT she does have to stand next to Howard and at least be a token First Lady. Sorry, but I still believe if a man is married, then his wife needs to come and live with him in the White House. If so, two people are running the government, even if it's just pillow talk -- the job description is a given. Unless there are practical reasons (certificate of medical reciprocity with Vermont, for one thing), is it so wild to think that she might open her practice near Washington, DC -- or Virginia or Maryland? I'm sure that could be arranged for four years.

So, unless his wife has ameliorated her position as I understood it last time, she will not enhance his candidacy. The other unspoken factor is that she is Jewish, besides being a rural doctor and formerly not willing nor able to help her husband in a quest for the presidency.

You have a right to your own opinion.

Here's a good bio on the man:

Howard Dean
Political Figure

Born: 17 November 1948
Birthplace: East Hampton, New York
Best known as: Former governor of Vermont and outspoken 2004 candidate for U.S. president
Name at birth: Howard Brush Dean III

Howard Dean served as governor of Vermont from 1991 until 2003, and was a Democratic candidate for president in 2004. Dean had previously worked as a physician; he earned an undergraduate degree from Yale in 1971 and a medical degree from the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in 1978. He then moved to Vermont and opened a medical practice with his wife, Dr. Judith Steinberg. Dean was elected lieutenant-governor of Vermont in 1986 and became governor in 1991 after the death of Governor Richard Snelling. Dean did not run for re-election in 2002, instead declaring his intention to run for U.S. president in 2004. (He was succeeded as governor by Republican Jim Douglas.) Dean was a hot candidate in the early stages of the 2004 race, helped by his state-of-the-art Internet campaign. However, he ended his campaign on 18 February 2004 after finishing third to John Kerry and John Edwards in the Wisconsin primary. Almost exactly one year later, on 12 February 2005, Dean was elected as chairman of the Democratic National Committee, the party's guiding organization.

Extra credit: Dean let loose an exuberant howl at a rally to encourage campaign supporters on the night of the 2004 Iowa caucuses; the video clip of Dean's howl was replayed frequently on TV, and many analysts felt it was the beginning of the end for his campaign... Dean served in the Vermont House of Representatives from 1982-86... Dean attended Yale at the same time as Doonesbury cartoonist Garry Trudeau and President George W. Bush... Dean's wife is Jewish; Dean was born Catholic but now is a Congregationalist... The couple have a daughter, Anne (b. 1984) and a son, Paul (b. 1986).

Do a search on the Jewish nature of many of our frontrunning candidates.

The party will not allow Dean to be president. Got it? You can make all your little lists of the scream, his wife, her Jewishness....whatever...

But in the end it is over because TPTB said it was. At least for a while.

You can sit back, take a deep breath..relax. You don't need to destroy the man anymore...it was already done.

:eyes:

could see myself working for him again in another primary.

However, I'm trying to be realistic about his chances.

What is TPTB?

He's not running. Clinton said he wasn't going to win, others did. He is doing a job that is important.

You said it yourself. Your own words. Don't accuse me of misrepresenting, and I think you best do some resarch on other possibles for 08.

Don't you?

And in case you missed this....he was declared by The Man himself to be unfit.

""It remains to be seen, too, just how much my support for the civil unions bill will hurt my chances to reshape Democratic politics. Some pretty important Democrats have shown they think it might. When former president Clinton was trying to drum up support for Wes Clark, just prior to Clark's entry into the presidential race a year ago, he called a friend in a large city and said "I need you to be for Wes Clark." The friend demurred. Clinton said, "Look, I'm from Arkansas, and Wes is from Arkansas, we need to be for Wes. "

The friend told Clinton he was Dean supporter. "Howard Dean", Clinton said "forfeited his right to run for president when he signed the civil unions bill. He can't win."

It was a rare mistake for the president. The supporter was gay and called us to tip us off."

Page 113 You Have the Power by Howard Dean, 2004.

What? You're not seriously suggesting that a Jewish spouse is a factor, are you?

And she never said she wouldn't move to DC. She did say she'd like to continue practicing medicine if he was elected.

he could not be elected. Hm....mm..we are getting into an area here that is very very touchy.

And I am getting very angry at this kind of crap.

I am not trying to make anyone angry.

"The other unspoken factor is that she is Jewish, besides being a rural doctor and formerly not willing nor able to help her husband in a quest for the presidency."

how I believe they might be interpreted. "Went after his wife"? You are mistaken.

I honestly don't understand your implication here, radio lady. Hell, for that matter, what does her being a rural doctor have to do with anything? :shrug:

and him.

This is a very nice post. And then you had to do that. He is not running for prez in 08.

Anti-Semitism has no place in the Democratic Party.

Just last year, we had some neo-Nazi thugs throw disgusting messages in plastic baggies -- right on our driveway. Steve Duin, a columnist for the Portland Oregonian, wrote a column about this insulting and disgusting behavior. Earlier, in 2005, a group planned to meet in Gabriel Park in SW Portland Oregon -- they posted swastikas and threatened to host a parade. We're just one small group of people in this country and still we get a large share of threats and actual massacres. You need to look up "synogogue bombings in the US" and catch up on the news.


"Anti-Semitism has no place in the Democratic Party."

I totally agree with that statement. If only it were true among all the people who elect a president!

As a Jewish woman myself, I am reminded almost daily that anti-Semitism is still a worldwide situation.

To say that it would not have any impact on the election of a man or woman who would possibly occupy the White House -- is to hide one's head in the sand.

And you will have to do it, because I am SO not going there.

Judy Steinberg Dean is an outstanding woman in every way. You should be ashamed.

It is inexcusable.

Not at all. John Kerry's grandparents were Jewish. That became widely known during the campaign. I hardly think anyone cared.

Unfortunately, John Kerry lost the election. To my knowledge, no president has ever been elected who had Jewish roots. Also, has there ever been a Jewish First Lady? Hey, I'm not a historian. I don't know the answer to those questions.

Interestingly enough, there were a lot of people who didn't like Theresa Heinz for many reasons. These are just my thoughts on reasons she might not have fit in with the First Lady concept.

She was born in another country? Extremely rich? Married again after her husband died? Saucy and superior when she talked? Didn't take any guff from reporters? Fiercely protective of her man?

Now, does anyone want to fight about those perceptions?

Bill Clinton already said he could not be president...just in case you did not know. Now that we are letting it all hang out.

From You Have the Power, 2004, by Howard Dean



I hope this gets attention to show what we are up against in our party.

Dean is electable?

That's the main thrust of this thread, isn't it?

Howard Dean is going international in order to gain notice for his forward-looking views. He's a hell of a lot better than anyone the Republicans can come up with, in my opinion.

bottom line. He is not running.

So what was the original point of your post this morning?

"It's Not Maple Syrup Dean's Out Selling"

What IS he selling?

I don't think you read it, or you would not even ask. I have never said he was running. I have no clue where you got that.

"boors" in his own party who we assume aren't presently backing him. The other idea is that he is going international to try and help people other countries understand what he did in this past election.

Well, really... it's not too big a leap to think he's trying to polish up his image to try for another run in 2008, is it?

Did you read the article?

.

Why don't you just put me on IGNORE and I'll do the same? That is a far better conclusion than just idly slinging your unfounded opinions at me.

who are helpless to defend themselves. What you have done in this thread is really awful.

You are not supposed to tell me you are putting me on ignore. You are just supposed to do it.

Thanks for the utter sliming of my thread.

claims such as this.

WHO was this "supporter?" And did any other unnamed source back up the general thoughts of Bill Clinton at the time?

As a Clark fan, I know that Clinton did NOT go out of his way to help Wes, which is why I question this exchange. My concern has nothing to do with Howard Dean, btw. I just question what was said about Clark, which makes me question the whole of the conversation.

Now - carry on with your exchange with Radio Lady. I'm just concerned about this quote, in general, not as it relates to Howard Dean.

I don't know what to say when you say he put a lie in a book and published it.

What is there to say to that?

this type of stereotyping based on gender, religion and ethnicity (in this case Judaism), as well as race and other factors.

Why would anyone in 2006 who claims to be a feminist and a Democrat make the kinds of statements you are making?

did not appear to support her husband in the race. That was a gut feeling that ran counter to my feminism. I don't have to explain it to you.

In the primary, my husband and I both worked for and voted for Howard Dean.

Then we voted for John Kerry in the general election.

designed to break down.

I don't need you to explain it to me. I see it for what it is.

(Howard Dean) is a fabulous speaker, attractive, serious, thoughtful and I could certainly get behind him for the Presidency.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2999241&mesg_id=2999558

in your life that is greatly troubling you right now and preventing you from understanding what others and I are trying to point out to you politely about sexism and other isms.

People who are "appalled" by women doing what men have always done or expecting women to fit into narrow roles that at best are completely out of date can expect legitimate criticism on this board. "Sticking to" such views is not admirable, regardless of which men you may have voted and worked for.

So be it.

The presidency is a unique role. This has nothing to do with "what men have always done or expecting women to fit into narrow roles..." So you call drawing and quartering me in this thread "legitimate criticism"? It's funny, but I don't feel that way.

Perhaps this little allegory will help get my point across: I assume that even if Hillary Clinton does win the role of President(and I'm not saying she will or won't), Bill Clinton will be assuming the role of attendant spouse, unless they divorce, of course. Now, no one seems to be comfortable with the name First Gentleman and First Man is a little too "out there", but my point is:

What role will the "First Gentleman" have to assume? Will he stay away from primary campaigning? Will he insist he'd be better off in his Harlem office, doing whatever he does these days (and from what I've heard, what he does with charitable causes is at least as important as a rural doctor attending to patients!)? Will you then assume -- if by chance Hillary wins -- that he will stay in New York as his first residence? Or will he move into the White House with the president? Will he curtail his paid engagements (some of them are involved with George H. W. Bush, and I really don't know how he will handle his for-pay speeches)? In other words, will he put his career on hold in order to assist his spouse? Will he expect to handle state dinners with his wife, the President? How will it be looked upon if he shows up at presidential dinners wearing denim and sneakers and having spent the whole day somewhere else other than supporting his president?

Think about it.

Mmmmmmmmmmooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What an arrogant post. You were appalled that a doctor would rather take care of her patients?

Don't worry, Dean is not running. Relax, take a breath and attack some who are running.

And see my reply to you below.

And must the first spouse be a full-time arm ornament, or are they allowed outside interests?

Not counting those who lost their spouses while president. Please let some historian answer this because I don't know.

I think we like our presidents -- at least those we've had up until now -- married (to women), Protestant (except for JFK), and with a wife who lives in the White House. One could argue that First Ladies are and were not "arm ornaments" -- Eleanor Roosevelt comes to mind, as does "Lady Bird" Johnson, Betty Ford, Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, and Hillary Rodham Clinton. I'm sure you'll agree that each of those women had their own interests and abilities.

You are barking up the totally wrong tree... but only hypothetically, of course.

Grover Cleveland (1885-1889, 1893-1897) became President as a bachelor, but married Frances Folsom in 1886. He was 48; she was 21. He is the only president to be married in the White House.

We've had a fair number of widower Presidents (and no, I'm not including those widowed IN office):
When Thomas Jefferson became president in 1801, he had been a widower for 19 years.
Andrew Jackson's (1829-37) wife, Rachel Donelson Jackson, died three months before he took office...
Martin Van Buren (1837-1841) also entered the White House a widower.
Chester A. Arthur (1881-1885) served his presidency a widower.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/movies/features/dcmovies/americanpresident.htm

Just not paying jobs outside their husband's career fields. Certainly not anything that would take precedence over being at their man's beck and call - like oh, I dunno - saving lives. What kind of role model would that be for our children?

I guess you heered it over the raddio, yup yup yup.

of her that might affect Dean's chances, and not your personal view that she is unfit to be First Lady. While I'm not sure I agree, I remember how Theresa Heinz Kerry was used against Kerry during the runup to '04. You may have a point because americans have shown time and time again that they like to see a woman in the white house and the more domesticated, the better. Hillary Clinton was despised for being intelligent, educated and outspoken. Laura Bush actually has a reasonable approval rating for no reason that I can possibly envision, unless it's pity and Hillary surely earned that too but didn't get any.

It is important when considering candidates that we look not only how the most progressive of us might view him/her, but also how the candidate will be viewed by the most regressive voter. In that spirit, it is worth considering what you say.

The winning forumula for 2006 and 2008. We have good ideas, we listen to voters and we care about the future of our country. We should never again let our beliefs and policies take a back seat to political expediency or strategy. Voters should always know what Dems stand for and Dems should always be in charge of defining themselves to the public.

his successes just make it all the more sweet.

Who has the courage to be who she is. Whose husband has the courage to let her be that way.




Ruth Fremson/The New York Times
Dr. Judith Steinberg Dean, right, watching her husband, Howard Dean, at a debate on Nov. 4. With her was Kristen Morgante, a campaign aide.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/13/politics/campaigns/13JUDY.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5007&en=1f9f793bfa25f74b&ex=1389330000&partner=USERLAND

"Most of the time, wearing sensible slipper-flats and no makeup or earrings, Dr. Steinberg can be found in an unadorned medical office she shares with two colleagues in the suburb of Shelburne, where the snapshots under the desk's glass top have not been changed since it belonged to her husband, before he became governor in 1991.

Or she might be puttering around their five-bedroom ranch-style house near Lake Champlain, writing a list of chores — fix the toilet, change the light over the stoop — for Dr. Dean to tackle on his rare days home. Or racing through Hannaford's supermarket in sneakers at 10 p.m., her list of bananas, milk, wheat bran, low-fat fudge bars, aluminum foil, tea bags, Gatorade, lemonade and grapefruit ordered according to aisle location.

"I'm very happy doing what I do," she said. "He's happy doing what he does. I think that he's doing a great job, and I think that he thinks what I do is a great job."

Dr. Steinberg said she is simply too busy to get involved in the campaign. Along with her work, and a bimonthly book group, she has volunteer commitments at Burlington High School, where the Deans' son, Paul, 17, is a senior (their daughter, Anne, 19, is a sophomore at Yale."

chances?

I repeat what I said before: There are a lot of women in this world who may have accepted this for the primary campaign (as I did -- perhaps "appalled" was a little too strong a word, but I did recoil when I read these types of articles). But when it comes to WINNING and SHARING the White House, I think any Democrat or Republican candidate had better have a woman by his side at the time he is governing.

Some people need to win on their points. I don't. I don't feel the need for it.

If you need to be right that badly, then I guess you will have to consider yourself right.

of such were elected in the past??

The paragraph in the OP to put it simply....is that he has been asked to speak in UK and Canada to discuss with those parties the idea of getting back to the grassroots.

So the word boor came from US News, and it frankly refers to Carville and ilk who bashed Dean right after we won.

It is not saying he is running, and I think this place is just crazy and over the top lately. There was nothing in that paragraph except that the Labour and Liberal parties were interested, at least some are, in having more of the top down power start at the bottom of the party.

It has nothing to do with his running in 08. :shrug: :shrug:

I am sure that was innocent enough.

I chimed in in post #15, which was upthread a bit. If I accidentally "hijacked" the thread, I am sufficiently chided now. You're right. This place is just crazy and over the top lately.

Sorry to be part of the problem. I'll be part of the solution. I'm going to play the game Clue, Jr. with the grandkids.

Good night and good luck... Really. Let's try again another day.

Radio_Lady in Oregon

No link, just a press release I found, and no further coverage.

"Howard Dean, Segolene Royal to attend Spanish Socialist congress
Mon Sep 4, 6:14 PM ET

US Democratic Party chief Howard Dean and possible French Socialist
presidential candidate Segolene Royal will attend a conference organised by
Spain's ruling Socialists in mid-September.

It will be the first time that the head of the Democrats will attend such a
conference, Jose Blanco of the Socialist (PSOE) party said.

Royal is expected in Madrid on September 15 and 16 and will take part in a
debate together with Spanish Vice-President Maria Teresa Fernandez de la
Vega, according to a programme published on Monday.

Royal said in a television interview on Monday that she was also due to meet
Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero during the visit, who
will close the conference on September 17.

Dean, a vocal opponent of the US invasion of Iraq, serves as chairman of the
Democratic National Committee and ran to be the party's presidential nominee
in 2004, losing the candidacy to John Kerry."

She won her primary. Here's an article from earlier in the WP about her.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/20/AR2006072001738.html

Eh, James?? As with Al Gore, Howard Dean will, in the end, come out smelling like a ROSE!!

Thanks for the post, I loved it!