Some People Say they don't like Hillary because:

and want a Democratic candidate who sounds like a Democratic candidate.

be a shame to throw it all out the window.

"Free" trade, both "Patriot" acts, a bankruptcy bill written by and for the credit card companies, her vicious proxy attacks on Howard Dean (who had the bad fortune to be competent and successful), her introducing legislation to criminalize flag burning, her unceasing support of the Iraq war... that's not a Democrat, whether it wears a skirt or not.

I want to vote Democratic for a Democrat.

Way to get right to the heart of the matter :applause:

just about does it in my book. If we'er going to nominate a republican can't the public just choose a real one instead?

"Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time" - Harry Truman

I think she was absent for that vote, because of Bill's surgery or something.

I don't like her either but I don't think she voted for that particular bill.

She voted for the first, was AWOL on the second.

Are you talking about the tort reform bill? I am pretty sure she voted for that (giveaway to the insurance companies).

e.g., http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_Clinton_(positions)

It wasn't as well-publicized as the second one - but it was nasty.

She did NOT vote for CAFTA, she did NOT vote for the bankruptcy bill, and her support for the Iraq war, while it exists is lukewarm at best (read her statements), and is certainly not "unceasing." Also, regarding her supposed "attack" of Howard Dean, do you expect that ever Democrat should fall in a lockstep march behind the DNC chair? Is that what makes a Dem, no criticism of the DNC chair?

1. She's voted for MOST "free" trade deals - Vietnam, Chile, and others. CAFTA was an exception, not the rule.
2. She voted FOR the first of the awful bankruptcy bills, was AWOL for the second.
3. "her support for the Iraq war, while it exists is lukewarm at best (read her statements), and is certainly not "unceasing." Her transparent attempts at triangulation are noted: but she supported the war, and her support has not ceased.
4. Her attacks on Dean, via Carville, are simply awful. Incompetence of Rumsfeldian proportions? That's not disagreement - that's simply her penchant for the politics of personal destruction.

Whichever way the wind blows...

Hadn't heard that before, thanks.

where it doesn't belong, like into our video games and movies, and her mushy-middle "let's please everyone" politics makes them gag.

Party controlling our party.

is more important to me than Grand Theft Auto. Apparently it wasn't quite as important to her.

it's just our cantankerous nature ;-)

and they tell us that liberals are bad. And they believe it.

Three letters is about all that I can come up with: L, I, and R.

With DUers, it's that people have bought into the myth of the evil DLC/Illuminati/Federal Reserve conspiracy. There's plenty to be annoyed at about Hillary Clinton, but the eeeevil "DLC" tag isn't even on the radar.

For outsiders, it's because the Clintons are the Republicans' Cthulhu: a mythical beast which causes total insanity in anyone who looks upon it. One mention of the Clintons and almost any right-wing nutter will start twitching and screaming like they'd had holy water thrown on them. It's inexplicable.

...because so many here do it, but calling her "Hillary" always strikes me as sexist. I tend to prefer to call her Senator Clinton, not because I'm any big fan of hers, but because when we don't show our elected Dems respect, we play right into the RW psyops methods.

NGU.

Gee...what was I thinkin'.

If I refer to Howard Dean as Howard, am I a "sexist" too? While I understand your point, calling Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton "Hillary" is just common knowledge.

I didn't call you sexist. As a matter of fact, I made it a point to say I wasn't singling you out. I said the usage smacks of sexism. Calling RWers "pro-life" is common knowledge too, but that doesn't make that term any less insidious.

NGU.

And I tend to shy away from a lot of the PC stuff.

Calling her "Hillary" is derogatory psy-ops stuff.

Her PAC is called HillPAC.

Which IS clever, but still...

Pretty much every time I type "Hillary" it strikes me that it's kind of disrespectful just to refer to her by her first name all the time.

BUT the reason I think DUers do this is not primarily to disrespect her, but because it's impossible to use just her last name in reference to her. Say "Clinton" without any elaboration and people automatically think "Bill." As a result, rather than type out "Hillary Clinton" or "Sen. Clinton" people just type "Hillary" because it's easier and people know immediately who you are speaking of. I don't think it's sexist because people say "Pelosi" or "Boxer," but because Bill Clinton is everyone's first association with that surname, Hillary is a special case.

Just my .02

It's easier to say pro-life than anti-abortion, or Iraq War than Iraq Occupation. But words matter. Hey, if I have to suffer a split second of inconvenience to avoid promoting the neo-fascist agenda, it's worth it.

NGU.

But there's merit to what you say. Maybe DU could start calling her "HRC" - it's shorter than all of the above and I think people would immediately know who HRC is.

At times we all inadvertantly fall into the trap. I often have to catch myself on the Iraq War/Occupation thing.

HRC is a good suggestion, by the way.

NGU.

very nice

nuff said....

Thanks for clearly proving otherwise, Zuch.

I'm just amazed this flamebait is still here.

Facts mean little...she is the devil du'jour of the left-wing...

everything is negotiable if it yields more power for you

unconscionable and barely decipherable position on Iraq and the "WOT"

I like her much better than any repuke, but less than many progressives.

that would make good presidents but poor candidates and would have a tough time winning.

And the disconnect between screaming about disrespecting one candidate by the same people that turn around and launch this kind of thread is pretty lame.

A shame to see some of the most hateful of shit stirrers from the 04 season made it to the 08 season. Gonna be a long, bloody and hateful primary season.

Julie

if she has to run, than so be it, but if we lose I think the Democratic party wins in the long run, because we will be rid of the overbearing influence of the Clinton's and the DLC.
I do not think I will be able to bring myself to vote for her-I would love to see a woman become president- just not her. And, I will not forgive her for how she stabbed Senator Kerry in the back, when she new full well, Kerry didn't say the things she claimed were inappropriate. She did not come off well. Maybe others will forget, but I won't.

Maybe you were trying to be funny but I'm just so tired of reading this stuff. As been explained again and again, people do not like Hillary because they differ with her positions, she is too centrist, does not have enough experience as an elected person, she attacks other Dems, she often parrots GOP talking points as well as being very chummy. Her constant need to please everyone dilutes any real position or values she may have. Strategically she is too divisive a candidate. The list goes on and on. Clearly by your inane options you have a bias towards her but you shouldn't be so dismissive and insulting to those who disagree.

And watch these pro-Kerry folks squeal like a pig if anyone did anything remotely as insulting about him.