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everythingsxen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 09:33 PM
Original message
Poll question: Clinton/Obama or Gore/Clark
The battle of the titans. The melee in D.C. (That's pronounced incorrectly as ME-LEE in this case to sound like a good rhyme, as opposed to the correct pronounciation of MAY-LAY) The fight against the right, The.. well you get the idea. Which tag team would you pick? Personally, I would say Gore/Clark wins by a landslide.
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luckyleftyme2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. EITHER CHOICE

YOU GOT TO ADMIT EITHER CHOICE IS BETTER THAN WHAT WE HAVE NOW!
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everythingsxen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yes...
but given a choice between these two? I would choose Gore/Clark. They would be a frigging unstoppable juggernaut. Gore has the compassionate, idealistic part covered and Clark has the business and military experience.

I like Obama, but I dislike Hillary. I would have put him with someone else, but she looks most likely to run and I think she would grab Obama since he is such a rising star.

I wasn't trying to stack the deck against Obama though. Any combination of Gore, Clark and Obama would no doubt be good.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hillary won't pull out of Iraq
Hillary won't pull out of Iraq because she shares the same views on the war as Joe Lieberman. Gore will!

I will also say that if Clark or Obama were elected President, they would also get us out of Iraq.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Has she come out and expressed regret about her support for the IWR yet?
Edited on Thu Dec-07-06 09:48 PM by jefferson_dem
Like Kerry and Edwards have. She's definitely more like LIEberman than she is like them.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Granted, she's a little more hawkish than she should be
but for someone to generalize that she's just like Lieberman is a little bit crazy.

She's definitely more like LIEberman than she is like them.


In some ways possibly, but in some ways Kerry is like Lieberman, too, you could say. I so remember him talking how he could outKILL Bush when it came to seeking out and killing those terrorists. Kerry was a little on the hawkish side, too, during the campaign, although it's convenient for some to forget that.
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John Gauger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I remember that.
He did, he said that he could kill more terrorists than Bush. That was really disappointing. Bragging about murder is not something I look for in a political candidate.
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samfishX Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'd rather see Gore/Obama.
I just don't think Clark is Presidential material.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I like that ticket too.
And I think General Clark would make a spectacular SOS or SOD.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-08-06 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. me , too. any combo with no Clark or Hillary. nt
Edited on Fri Dec-08-06 05:49 AM by jonnyblitz
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mentalsolstice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. Gore/Clark would be best use of overall talent!
Clark on his own does not have political talent, nor does he have confidence on domestic issues. I feel like Obama is peaking before his time...leave him alone for 10 years or so, and then he'll be a force to be reckoned with! He needs to get some senate committee leadership, or drop out of the senate and get a governorship...I like him and he's definitely a part of my "big picture".
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I disagree with your assessement of Wes Clark on both counts....
I think his political talent have been underplay simply because he isn't a politician...so yeah, he doesn't pander and lie, BUT he did quite well in his first run, regardless of the corporate meme put out on him (just remember that Howard Dean was "angry" and John Kerry was "most" electable")


I think it’s worth noting that Clark never really got his due as a candidate. The Times said he “struggled to master the difficulties” of being a presidential candidate, while Scheiber said Clark failed because he “turned out to be a pretty lousy politician.”

I followed Clark’s campaign pretty closely in 2004 and I remember things slightly differently.

Indeed, looking back, I think the conventional wisdom is that John Edwards excelled as a candidate, while Clark never really caught on with voters. That’s not quite what happened.

After the Iowa caucuses, which Clark chose not to compete in, the four main Democratic candidates — Kerry, Dean, Clark, and Edwards — met in eight primaries. Kerry won six and effectively wrapped up the nomination in the first week of February 2004. But taking a closer look, Clark did pretty well, particularly if you compare him to Edwards.

In those eight primaries, Clark finished ahead of Edwards in five (AZ, NH, NM, ND, and OK), while Edwards bettered Clark is just three of the eight (DE, MO, and SC). If you include Iowa, Clark still outperformed Edwards in five of the first nine contests.

In fact, in those first eight post-Iowa primaries, if we look only at top-two finishes (candidates who came in either first or second), Kerry had seven, Clark had four, Edwards had three, and Dean had one.

But the media was unimpressed. A day after Clark and Edwards each won their first primaries, and Clark outperformed Edwards in a majority of the mini-Super Tuesday contests, news outlets praised Edwards and dismissed Clark. Salon, for example, ran a major feature, taking a look at the race for the nomination. The headline: “And then there were two.” A big picture accompanied the article with Kerry and Edwards. The article said Clark “posted disappointing numbers in the seven-state primary” and “may not be long for the game.” Again, this was a day after Clark actually did slightly better than Edwards.

I also recall that Clark delivered a pretty solid speech at the DNC that year, widely considered one of the better speeches of the convention.

Clark got into 2004 very late, had very little money, a small staff, and no experience to speak of. But he still managed to do surprisingly well. He “turned out to be a pretty lousy politician”? That’s not how I remember it.
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/9242.html#more-9242


And just what did you do in the class war, Senator?

Wesley Clark dropped out of the race for the Democratic presidential nomination this week, and before he fades from our view it would be useful to take a good look at just what he brought to the race.

There were those who, concerned more with party credentials than the public interest, challenged Clark's right to run as a Democrat. At candidate debates he was asked to justify his recent decision to be a party member. But what defined Clark as a Democrat was not longevity of membership but fidelity of principle. There was a time when tax fairness virtually defined the Democratic Party. It no longer does. The party is so wired into corporate corruption that it is a betrayal of everything for which it once stood. If a Democrat steps out of line long enough to support the poor and middle class, she or he is likely to be attacked by "leaders" like Joe Lieberman, who last year attacked Al Gore for Gore's halfhearted economic populism.

Clark tried to reverse that. Where other candidates tinkered with tax "reform" (every screwing of the public in the last 40 years has been done in the name of tax reform) he proposed a bold stroke to "restore progressivity to the tax system." A family of four with an income of up to $50,000 a year would have been exempted from the income tax altogether. A single parent with one child making up to $28,000 a year would also have been exempted (with a sliding scale to cover other circumstances).
snip
The tax code is shot through with these kinds of loopholes, thanks to the Democratic Party, which in the war on the poor has gone over to the other side, rejecting the view that money made by money should be taxed at the same rate as money made by workers.

Remember that this fall when we see the imitation Democrats chasing after corporate campaign "contributions" while trying hard to forget Wesley Clark, who made the mistake of reminding them of what a real Democrat represents.
http://www.pahrumpvalleytimes.com/2004/02/18/opinion/myers.html

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mentalsolstice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Mind you, I Iike Clark
But I'm a realist...perhaps in today's mindset he could (?) be elected...because our collective mindset is on war. I've been closely related to men and women of his experience, through my family. And knowing what I know, he simply does not have a good grasp on domestic politics...which we need to get our focus back on. We have food, housing and health care issues that are not being given any attention to by either party right now.

A national ticket will require both that candidates have strong qualifications, both domestic and foreign.

Right now there ar just too many other peope that can weigh in on both fronts. I like him, and given some experience as a VP, member of Congress, or governor, he'll make a wonderful POTUS in the future.
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femmocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
11. Gore/Clark = Dream Team, IMHO
I would work my butt off for that ticket!
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-08-06 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
14. I chose Clinton\Obama
If Al Gore were to run, I can imagine that he would put someone who despite his qualifications would have diminished significantly in terms of practical electability scales because of the age and generation factor.
We should have someone who can speak the language of young people and who can relate to young people on the ticket if you want bodies to go door to door, etc.
Put Glark with Obama, or Gore with Obama and it is more realistic for holding on to the WH.
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dmosh42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-08-06 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
15. I'd rather Clark/Gore, but could back this
But I don't think either guy would take the second spot.
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