Dean On The Way Down

This is from the "Moderate Independent"
http://moderateindependent.com/v1i17elections2004.htm

snip

The biggest story, though, is the beginning of the end for the Dean campaign. The first blow was landed by the Gore endorsement. Dean had painted himself, within a party still resentful of the toothless, wavering campaign Gore ran last election, as the anti-Gore, a straight-talker who wouldn’t sit by and say, “I won’t attack,” as Gore did. Indeed, Dean’s people went to great lengths early on to paint Kerry as the “Gore” in this election, pointing out he had hired much of Gore’s staff and saying he was prone to qualified double-speak as Gore often was.

Then, Gore joined the Dean team, and ever since then the weight of the double-talking loser has been lifted off of both the Kerry and Lieberman campaigns. Ferocious attacks by Kerry and others that simply point out Dean’s constant knack for emphatically saying contradictory things are devastating the man who would be the lone straight-talker. And Dean’s ability to fight back against the people attacking him is completely undermined by the fact he launched his campaign and rise in the polls with a nasty flurry of personal attacks – in particular, on Senator Kerry, painting him, as mentioned above, as someone who contradicts himself.

In the meantime, Dean’s biggest asset and the thing that earned Gore’s endorsement, the awesome, ground-breaking campaign he is running, is become less and less important. The reason, in fact, Dean’s tightly-run, highly-run campaign was so appealing to people was that it represented the opposite of Gore’s campaign. Fervent activists finally had a man who not only would speak boldly, but knew how to make a campaign that would have the ground troops and counterattacking swiftness to be able to stand up to the Bush/Limbaugh machine.

But problem number two for the Dean campaign is that the people who are just beginning to tune in now are not the activist types who pay attention to such things. Now, Democrats and Independents are tuning in simply to see the people who are running, how they present themselves, and what they have to say. And Dean’s uncharismatic nature, tendency to boldly contradict himself, and his, for many Americans just tuning in, incomprehensible stance with regard to Iraq, makes him simply seem unelectable to the late tuners.

John Kerry had gotten the early bounce and frontrunner status.... Now, John is getting that bounce once again from people tuning in for the first time.

And then there is Clark, who is neutralizing Dean’s other former advantage – outsider status. Clark is just as much the outsider as Dean, and one with strong defense credentials and far more charisma.

By all practical measures, this is should now be a three man race for the top spot, but not the three the rest of the press is reporting. No, don’t include Dean in this. At this point, it should be a tight three way battle between Kerry, who is in position to pull off an Iowa and New Hampshire one/two punch, Gephardt, who has crucial Midwest support, and Clark, who can make a big showing on February 3 following a nice launch in New Hampshire.

That, as we said, is how things should be, but two more things have to be considered: Kerry’s anemic campaign, and Gephardt’s lack of appeal on defense issues. This weakness for Gephardt is a fatal one.

snip

With all of this in play, the only thing the Clark campaign needs to really get off the ground is a media momentum builder. When the fundraising quarter closes on December 31 and he has far outraised everyone else – even Dean – this quarter, his surging campaign will hit full stride.

How can we write off the Dean campaign so early? Funny, somebody should be asking the rest of the press how they managed to write him in so early.

If Clark can make his domestic agenda case, he can win it.

If somehow the Kerry campaign – not the candidate, but the troops – manage to get it in gear, he may make it interesting. Even led by a revitalizing Cahill, they have a long, long way to go to undo the damage the previous campaign staff has done so far. But a few strides have been made in the right direction.

If they can’t do it, and Wesley Clark can stand toe to toe with the other Democrats on domestic issues, then Clark will be the Democrats’ man.

Yes, it may seem shocking and absurd to some, and I’m sure we will get a flood of comments from Dean supporters who can’t imagine writing him off at this point. But just remember, since we reported a couple weeks back that Clark was the true number two, the entire media has slowly come along to acknowledge we were right. You can write us to disagree if you wish, but it might behoove you to wait a couple of weeks before doing so.

while Clark is in a statistical tie for first.

Clark is also leading in Oklahoma and statistically tied for the lead in at least two other second round states, while Kerry is at the top in none.

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce: :toast::toast::toast::toast::toast:

Dean surged from 22% to 31 % nationally last week...after the well- scripted "capture" of Saddam.

Your Internet newsletter author ain't exactly John Zogby.

:)

:)

With Dean at 21% and 26%, respectively. In both cases double-digits ahead.

But to be fair, I don't put a huge stock in National Polls. They certainly mean more than they did last summer (ask Joe Lieberman), but this will be decided state-by-state.

But then, this is the first thread I've ever really even discussed poll numbers... other than pointing out bias in questions asked.

CBS stated in the text of the poll that the Democratic prefernce numbers were based on less that 250 responses and had a much higher +/-.

Every other poll that week showed Dean with double that level of support. above 30% in most.

This is the 4th thread I have posted that fact in. No matter how many times you post that skews poll, it will still be skewed.

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04dem.htm

Here is Newsweek:

Dean went from 24 to 26%
Clark went from 12 to 16%

And the biased poll was in The Washinton Post which is the one showing Dean at 31%

The Newsweek poll seems legit.

My comments are refering only to that CBS poll. It was horribly done.

CBS News Poll. Dec. 21-22, 2003. N=244 likely Democratic primary voters nationwide. MoE ± 6.

"Who would you like to see the Democratic Party nominate as its presidential candidate in 2004: , or someone else?" Names rotated


Howard Dean 12/21-22 16% 12/14-16 23% 11/10-13 14%




It's funny how all the polls show Dean's numbers going up... yet all those polls are flawed and biased. Yet the on poll that shows Dean's numbers going down... that's the poll to trust.

LOL!

I wouldn't take it too seriously.

and hence the accuracy. Zogby was the only one who consistently had Bush ahead of Gore by a wide margin while all others indicated that the race was too close to call.

Here are poll numbers from Zogby during the 2000 election. On 11.06.00 they had Gore winning 48 % to Bush's 46.

In fact, Zogby's polls showed it a close race basically all the way throught, with Gore jumping in front one week, and falling a few points behind the next. The last time Bush even had a wide lead was in a July poll, that showed Gore losing to Bush 37% to 43%

http://zogby.com/features/featuredtables.dbm?ID=8

Sorry, but I don't know what poll you were reading.

And Zogby's not exactly reliable.

A view of the political landscape will tell all - the view of the political primary (at this point) tells little. Grassroots activism is rampant at this stage, but will falter. Anyone remember Perot? Hell, back then you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting someone working at a grassroots level for Perot. Politics is a business, and when the Dem leadership decides to put the push on for the General (or whomever) we'll see things change. It is clear they do not want Dean, and despite protestations to the contrary they want the strongest candidate they can find to oust the chimp. Hence, no Dean.

Don't let the Dean folks get you riled up - they're very happy right now (and rightfully so), but woefully naive in the ways of political machinery, hence their incessant cheerleading and running to the keyboards to "set things straight." Just hang on - it's going to get interesting pretty soon, when the heavy hitters come to bat.

Yes, I'm prepared for the inevitable responses, but Santa was good so let 'em come. I write for the undecided, anyway, 'cause even though most of the Dean folks are very nice (albeit delusional :) ) reasoning with them is like talking to a
maple tree, and (being a woodworker) at least I can make something useful from the tree. :)

But of course, we'll defer to some opinion piece in an obscure, nearly unknown publication.

....don't mess with their reality. It tends to get them riled up.

Remember, War is Peace, Slavery is Freedomn, and 9% in the polls is first place to them.

I mean if you are, what's with you bashing Clark supporters? Aren't you bashing democrats? Yes you are.


Your republican opponent could do the same thing and probably do it better, I am sure.

energy in motion for Dean and not listen to the ones who think Dean doesn't have a chance. I admire John Nichols, Michael Tomasky, and William Greider ...who all write with positive views on Dean.


http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20031229&s=nichols
http://www.prospect.org/print/V15/1/tomasky-m.html
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/002424.html

That have Dean Leading?

The poll says had less than 250 respondent and had a much higher +/-.

that list a margin of error, are 6+/-, the EXACT same margin of error as the CBS poll.

if you choose to discount this poll that shows dean falling for that reason, you need to discount all the older polls which show dean rising

http://www.politicsus.com/ 
READ THIS NEW WP/ABC NEWS POLL AND ASK YOURSELF: WHY WAS HOWARD DEAN THE ONLY DEMOCRAT TESTED IN A HEAD-TO-HEAD BALLOT TEST AGAINST BUSH?

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04dem.htm

dean has dropped all the support he has gained sin the last seven weeks,

12/21 12/14 11/10
Howard Dean 16 23 14

Wesley Clark 10 10 9

Richard Gephardt 9 6 12

Joe Lieberman 6 10 9

Carol Moseley Braun 6 1 4

John Edwards 5 2 2

John Kerry 4 4 7

Al Sharpton 2 5 3

Dennis Kucinich 2 1 2

Other (vol.) 16 10 1

This is 6th time I've posted that CBS poll was skewed and the text of the poll stated so.

The poll will be just as skewed the next time you post this poll, too.

if you check polling report.com many, if not most of the polls
that list a margin of error, are 6+/-, the EXACT same margin of error as the CBS poll.

if you choose to discount this poll that shows dean falling for that reason, you need to discount all the older polls which show dean rising

The CBS poll... N=244

The ABC poll... from a total sample of 1,001 adults

The newsweek poll... N=370

The CNN poll.... N=356

The Harris poll... N=393

The NBC poll... from a total sample of 512 adults nationwide

The princton poll... N=357

The Quinnipiac University Poll... N=384

The CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll..... N=402

The AP poll... N=539

The PEW poll... N=469

Ipsos-Reid/Cook Political Report Poll.... N=527


Do we notice the fucking pattern yet?


The one poll that shows Dean taking a loss is the same poll with the LOWEST sample size.
It is not the MOE that's the problem... it is the fact that they only polled 255 people. THe next closest poll still has over 100 more people in their sample and show Dean at 27%.

n/t

:)

Dean '04..

In a democratic direction.

unless they intend on raising 1/4 of a mil a day??

osama ads.

200k a day.


The fact is that Dean's bat always fills up the most on the last day or two it is up. I think they pulled in almost 800k on the last day of the 2nd quarter.

First, that the Gore endorsement was a blow to the Dean campaign. Dean has surged in the national polls and held steady or risen in state polls since Gore endorsed him.

Second, that Clark has far outraised Dean this quarter. Not sure I've seen evidence of that yet.

But it's a nice little blog entry.

and yet Gore, though not an adept politician most certainly a well seasoned one, manages to piss off the supporters of all the other candidates by saying they should essentially line up and unify behind Dean.

Yes, the candidate who lost in 2000 because not all the votes were counted... wants to stop the Democratic Process before ANY of the votes have even been caste.

Yes, I know Gore didn't say that specifically... but it was suggested... he knows enough about political speech to see what could be implied.

As for their detour into Harlem... for a photo op before the "big announcement" in Iowa... it fell sort of flat.

with the other candidates. No way did either of them think that the other candidates would applaud and fall in line.

So it was as positive as it could've been. And it seems to have had an impact on the polls. We'll see what it does to votes. I don't think endorsements have that big of an impact, but this did give Dean a nice "credibility" bump.

Welcome to reality.

"Yes, I know Gore didn't say that specifically... but it was suggested... he knows enough about political speech to see what could be implied."

You are projecting your own anti-Dean bias. Might I ask, what stance was Gore supposed to take when he endorsed Mr. Dean? Say to the other dems "I think Dean is the strongest candidate, but y'all better keep running hard just in case?" Seriously...your assertion that Gore was somehow trying to surreptitiously subvert the process simply by asking the party to support a particular candidate just doesn't make sense. Any more that it makes sense for a pro athlete to come out and endorse Product A, but suggest that maybe you'd like Product B, also. That isn't the way it works.

The media talked more about Joe Lieberman's hurt feelings and Dean and Gore's blue suits than the media has discussed the WTO, the deficit, and continuing job exports combined.

The media wanted to create a distraction and did.

and from what I've seen printed that is all any of us can do. For me I did have the impression he was almost thumbing his nose at the 'usual powers that be' in the democratic party, i.e. DNC and DLC. Will this backfire? Time will tell. As I say it is just an impression nothing more, but his actions did give a boost to the candidate least favored by the DNC and DLC.

There are a LOT of Dems (and even independents) out there that see Gore as the guy who should have been President. To align themselves with Dean, who received Gore's endorsement, would essentially be the same as saying "we appreciate you and know you should've been the guy." Far more people are going to see the endorsement that way then in a jaded, cynical way.

Considering that Tennessee, Gore's home state, is moving more toward Clark. (Despite early endorsements for other candidates - none for Dean that I'm aware of - but certainly for Kerry and Gep.)
Therefore, your statements sound pretty hollow. Or is that Tennessee, who ultimately denied Gore the presidency, has learned to ignore Gore?
While there's been only one "official" poll of Tennessee done by Middle Tennessee State University (Clark and Lieb. tied for first at 22 percent); all of our Democratic movers and shakers say it's Clark's for the plucking.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

That's why Gore endorsed Dean.

From what I can tell, this is a very pro-Clark site. They can be pro-Clark all they want, that's they're right (and I actually think the site isn't bad, just slanted toward Clark).

But don't post their analyses here as though they were a disinterested party.

my feelings exactly

Things changed already.

This is an opinion piece and should be labeled as such.

:wtf: is this online rag?

:eyes:

CBS News Poll. Dec. 21-22, 2003. N=244 likely Democratic primary voters nationwide. MoE ± 6.

.

"Who would you like to see the Democratic Party nominate as its presidential candidate in 2004: , or someone else?" Names rotated

.
.............12/21-22 12/14-16 11/10-13
Howard Dean ....16 .......23 ......14

more here
http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04dem.htm

Oh, he is? Thanks.

maybe i missed substantive reflection from the dean people about why this is happening and how to stop the free fall.

just as long as he's still ahead, you are happy?

Cryingshame and fart never answer when I post this CBS poll is skewed on threads. They just run off and start a new thread in the hope that people won't notice or respond.

pollingreport.com shows many if not all the polls that list the MOE as +/-6.

if you choose to dismiss this poll which shows dean in free fall for that reason you need to dismiss all the polls that showed him on the rise.

... who tried to say Dean had "peaked" months ago. but just look at the relative changes. Dean has continued to rise, while Clark after the initial bump of his announcement has sunk.

:)

it still looks like General just got kicked in the nads
in that picture. I hope Governor Doctor didn't do it after
he read this devastating article about how he's washed up.

EDIT: I see you have got rid of the picture of General
holding his jewels and replaced it with a picture of
General as Child with Friend. I hope he is allright.

There are some great pictures of Clark out there, not sure why this one was chosen for the "holiday message." He looks hunched over, lonely and defeated. And cold. Brrr.

you're a riot. You mean the christmas card? Yea I never cared for that picture myself.

:D

supposed to be a 4 paragraph limit on quotes? You know, to prevent copywrite violation?

must we respond to every Dean supporter attack on this forum with something designed to raise their ire in return? I'm pretty sure that this post from this source isn't about to inform anyone in any useful way about Clark. Nor is it likely to undercut anyone's support of their chosen candidate.

What's the point really?


Wes Clark. He will make an extraordinary American President.

:yourock:

Among supporters of other candidates.

Per DU copyright rules
please post only 4
paragraphs from the
news source.


Thank you.


DU Moderator

And just why should I take seriously the OPINION of some idiot who actually comes out and CALLS the guy who numerically WON an election against an opponent with someone running to his left and siphoning votes away while his opponent had NO independent funneling votes from him a "double-talking loser??"

ON edit: Sorry, wasn't replying to this particular post but to the thread in general.
Also, wasn't calling the thread starter an idiot but the person who wrote the article that was posted.

The Clark/Dean ticket seems the best bet to me at this point.

hardly a referendum. Ms Vasquez does indeed seem to be bitter and quite misinformed. She is, of course, entitled to her opinion---and that's just what it is---HER opinion.

She is simply---wrong.

His stance on Iraq is absolutely correct and a growing number of Americans agree with him. The people who go along with Bush's Iraq war are the misinformed and naive who mistakenly believe that Saddam was responsible for 9/11. Dean's views are cathartic to millions of Americans who feel they have been taken hostage by this administration and who feel that Bush unjustly occupies the White House.

Dean is not on his way down much to the chagrin of Ms. Vasquez who believes wishing it so makes it so.

Ms. Vasquez is deluding herself if she thinks Dean is on his way down. On the contrary, Dean is not only holding fast, but gaining in popularity. Because he is the real thing people are rethinking their positions on Iraq, health care and the statis quo.

If you're gonna try and be cute, use spell check. :)

http://www.moderateindependent.com/v1i11elections2.htm

and she should note the recent polls after here article dated 12/16. dean is well ahead of the pack

poor betsy

He's dropped two bombs in the last week or so. The "Saddam's capture doesn't make us safer" comment and the "won't jump to conclusions on Bin Laden's sentence" comment.


While I agree with both comments and the reasoning behind them, I have to say that this sort of thing goes off HORRIBLY with the mainstream public. Bush will use these types of things to his advantage bigtime.


Peace out.

:hi:

the more the merrier

eom

Yup, don't want the ugly truth getting out there.

Nothing worse than an informed electorate.

Can't have those voters thinking for themselves.

Tell me Bobby Jay, do you feel safer now that Saddam is caught? Hmmm? I think taking him alive and on camera is going to be so regretted by our current propaganda team, er I mean Adminstration. Saddam's gonna sing some songs that are gonna cause a lot of pain. Ah but I digress....

Here's the thing that the corporate whore media fails to mention and that, apparently those seeing with their own eyes fail to see: Did you see the condition of Saddam when he was captured? Alone, filthy, in a cave with nobody and no means of communication. What a powerful man!! Not. He had nothing and was utterly alone. Was he really a threat to us? haha I think not.

Now Osama, he's a different story. He is so revered they'll never let him be caught. Even if/when he dies, we'll never know. They would never give us the satisfaction, he is a saint to his followers. He is the real danger, he and those who share his goals.

No, America is no safer with Saddam caught and I feel damn sorry for anyone who can view that footage and fail to realize this obvious fact. Damn sorry.

Julie

It's really ugly, talk about smearing other democrats!

that will surely be the final nail in Dean's coffin.

After all, those of us who have been following the honorable Betsy R. Vasquez for lo these many years know




a motto for politics and porridge alike, goldilocks would love it.

not that I'm closed minded about such people, Mr. A-S

Over half a million registered on his website, he raises more money in a quarter than any other Democrat ever including the most popular president in the twentieth century, he raises money not only for himself but for other Democrats in tight races, his supporters have written over 100,000 letters to voters in Iowa. You're right. A man with that kind of support can't possibly win.

She undercuts herself, because she almost supports an argument for something I have thought about Gore's endorsement for a long time. In many ways, it seemed like an admiring "THIS is the camapaign I should have run in 2000" endorsement. Gore is quite happy to see an "anti-Gore" running. His endorsement in no way has transformed Dean into something different.

The Democratic Anti-Frontrunner Shooting Gallery!!!

See, the forces within the Dem Party that cannot stand for FR status by a Dem candidate, array their considerable 'talents' on tearing down said Dem. In this case, Dean.

Once Dean has been damaged by the Dem Circular Firing Squad, the next Dem candidate becomes the FR (let's say Clark for sake of argument). Those with hurt feeelings from round 1, along with those who didn't like the 1st FR, and who don't care for the new FR, join forces, and aim their arsenal at this new FR. After he's been taken apart by people from his own party...

Well, you get the idea. Carol Mausley Braun startin to look real good all of a sudden. At least if you were to 'make book' off of the 'Democrats' here!!!

Let the best person win, nah! Let the least crippled struggle.

:shrug:

Be careful of what ya wish for...

Please try to remember that simple and obvious rule.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

that is freakin funny!!

Nice one.

:hi:

for helping to reinforce the anti-Dean sentiment here. Posts like that only help to hurt your cause.

This is disgusting.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I thought it was hilarious. Ah well. Can't please everyone I guess. :toast:

Julie

just because someone disagrees with your choice of candidate ...we get that image projected on us?

Pretty lame point....so you label us and call us whiny babies? Swell way to win us over to your guy...cause sooner or later we are going to have to come together and it will go much better if we don't play the "turn one against the other game".

Didn't see the humor cause there really isn't any...

Peace
DR

And you wonder why Dean supporters get a bad name????

it was funny...and as a proud member of the jihad against Dean I am still laughing!!

ask anyone who knows me- I have pretty off the wall sense of humor...I just didn't think it was funny....

:shrug:

Peace
DR

get even!! :evilgrin:

considering it is a shot across the bow of the Dean "jihadists" I am glad youcan appreciate the humor. What I don't get is the folks who do not claim to be against Dean but for another taking offense.

I knwo the difference between being for someone and being against and so do you. I wonder why so many do not. :shrug:

Julie

I am sorry to have used the wrong name! I just noticed that. Oy!

Julie

Calling people who oppose Dean 'crybabies' is a clear violation of the 'nicknames' rule Skinner posted.

In an evil grin kind of way. :evilgrin:

Futhermore, opposing the indefensible Iraq quagmire is incomprehensible.

Finally, down is up.

Dean has won the primary and is now running against our unelected President. Some one should wake up and face the truth. Go Dean!!!!!!!!

this article said stuff I like (although that's a big plus, in my book)

But look at a couple of the other articles I read after reading the one you linked to:

ONLY PRESIDENT (sic) BUSH COULD HAVE MADE THE CAPTURE OF A BRUTAL DICTATOR - A MOMENT THE WHOLE NATION AND WORLD SHOULD CELEBRATE - INTO A DIVISIVE SELF-PROMOTION FOR ONLY ONE POLITICAL PARTY IN ONE COUNTRY

http://moderateindependent.com/v1i16analysis.htm

"But President Bush's game of making criticism of the war in Iraq a personal attack against him, and any success a personal victory for him and the Republican Party of America, is once again taken up by the press in full steam. Chirac says it's good Saddam is captured, they lie and pretend that means they are saying Bush was right to do what he did.

Another network (several actually) called it a victory in the "War on Terror." Again, the lie of President Bush and his wing of the Republican Party taken up and reported, despite all evidence showing it is a lie.

This should be a celebrated moment. A man who brutalized his own people is no longer in power. But the unfortunate reality that many Americans and other people around the world are having to grapple with is that the capture of one weak dictator who never attacked any but his neighbors will only give a boost to another much more powerful dictator who has stated he will attack without provocation anyone he doesn't like the looks of."

and

The Bush Administration’s Actions Directly Parallel A Hostile Corporate Takeover

http://moderateindependent.com/v1i13takeover.htm

OCTOBER 27, 2003 – Publicly-held corporations know to keep profits low and cash-on-hand at an absolute minimum.

Why? Because if there is a nice cash profit each year or there is a lot of cash in the company’s coffers, they become a prime target for what is called a hostile corporate takeover.

You see, all that cash sitting around and cash income becomes a target that is too inviting to pass up. And so predators undertake hostile takeovers, purchasing a majority share – against the will of the current ownership – of the company’s stock. They do this by offering an excessively high price for the shares, and so get enough small stock holders to sell out, giving them a majority share.

Why would they overpay for the stock? Well, here is how the scam goes.

As soon as they get control of the company, the first thing they do is take all the money sitting around in the company coffers and stick it directly in their pockets and the pockets of their co-investors.

Next, they look at the company’s assets and see what else they can sell off or use to put cash in their pockets. They spin- off, sell-off, and then, when the company is just a skeleton of what it once was, they sell off the remainder by selling off their stock. This puts money on top of all the other money they just made.

<...>

Now, look at what Bush/Cheney and company did.

The nation had a surplus – a lot of money sitting around in the company’s coffers. It also had a high profit – excess tax revenues over expenditures.

So, they decided to try and take over the company (i.e. American corporation) so that they could loot the coffers, line their pockets, exploit any other assets that might bring them profits, leaving the country but a skeleton of what it was."

Good site!

(For the record, they do seem to be pro-Clark, so it's possible their analysis of the Democratic "horserace" involved a bit of wishful thinking. But at least there wasn't any bashing. It was just one person's take on the race at the moment. She could be right. She could be wrong. But I sure liked her take on it!)

anybody claiming Dean is some far-left liberal is out of touch with reality

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-3555359,00.html

Kerry Warns Dean Has No Chance Vs. Bush

Saturday December 27, 2003 3:46 PM
By WILL LESTER
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) - With a month to go before the New Hampshire primary, John Kerry says voters must choose between Democratic front-runner Howard Dean or a more centrist candidate like himself.

The Massachusetts senator said he would fare better than Dean against President Bush in November.

``Two roads have diverged in the New Hampshire woods,'' Kerry said in a speech prepared for delivery Saturday in Manchester. ``One of them takes us toward retreat from our responsibility in the world, our responsibility to working families, our responsibility to talk straight to the American people - and our obligation to win their confidence and their votes next November.''

Sorry, not good enough.

I want my country back!

I never said that he wasn't somewhere in the center: however, his statements over the past few days won't endear him to centrists, moderates or independents.
Besides that, he's just plain abrasive!
I'm all for a fight (DUH... I come here!), but he's just like brillo on baby skin.

Time to jump off and support other candidates before it is totally sunk.

Welcome to ignore. I feel better now. :)

Thanks.

The Moderate Independent - http://www.moderateindependent.com
Features editorial mockery, media stalking, absurd reviews and historical farce.
http://directory.google.com/Top/News/Satire/

Dean claims for the 500,000 supporters online is a major exaggeration, as many of those who signed up for his sight are not necessarily supporters, and it has been estimated that about half of that number are not Dean supporters, but merely internet users who signed up to access the site fully.

What is becoming imporessive about Dean is not his supposed grassroots campaign, but the very large and growing group of Democrats who are beginning to be comitted to the idea of anybody but Dean, which is is historically unprecidented in the size and number of people comitted to not voting if Dean is the nominee, and now even those who have comitted to writing in for another candidate if Dean is the nominee. The Draft Hillary movement is not only comitted to attempt to Draft Senator Clinton, but to get comittments to write her in during the General election. Given nine other candidates, who have many supporters who will not vote for Dean, regardless, A Dean nonination is likely to cause a large loss in 2004, than Dean not reeciving the nominination.

The Moderate Independent - http://www.moderateindependent.com
Features editorial mockery, media stalking, absurd reviews and historical farce.
http://directory.google.com/Top/News/Satire/

This is from the post just before yours.

Here is another article from the site:
http://www.moderateindependent.com/v1i10iraq.htm

Harkin endorsement after Gore started Dean's big slide down.

So, did he peak yet?