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NV1962 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 02:37 AM
Original message
Petition Amazon CEO Bezos to deal fairly with Carter's book
Please read the petition and consider signing it.

http://www.petitiononline.com/Amazon07/

Main stream sanity begins at home.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 02:45 AM
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1. Done. K & R
:kick:
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 04:38 AM
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2. done
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 08:35 AM
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3. done
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 09:22 AM
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4. Nonsense - the Publishers Weekly is there, is gentle, but says the same things as the WP review
Praising Clinton for being even-handed compared to Carter is now a no-no on this board?

I read the Carter book - it is an easy read - and the Washington Post review is spot-on.

The petition says that the author of the 2nd review posted at Amazon -Jeffrey Goldberg - "is a citizen of Israel as well as the United States, and that he volunteered to serve in the Israeli Defense Forces, for which he worked as a guard at a prison for Palestinian detainees".

Somehow the petition never mentions it is a Washington Post Review and says what many other reviews say.

So now Amazon must run all book reviews past the PA?

If anyone wants a different review posted, write one and post it. Amazon has few limits on guest reviews.

As to the petition - what a load of crap - in my opinion, of course. The opinion of others will no doubt differ. I wonder if the ones that differ on the petition, will also dump on the Taba-Geneva proposal - the best hope for peace, in my opinion again - because it does not give the PA all that it wants or because Taba started with Clinton, and the WP review that the petition wants to dump on is critical of Carter while praising Clinton?
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NV1962 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Tough to tell whether you truly read the book, but you missed the WaPo review
Edited on Thu Jan-18-07 05:30 PM by NV1962
First something that's most easily cleared: the Publishers Weekly review is just ONE paragraph long, contrasting with the lengthy WaPo rant, and it's not exactly "neutral" either.

To wit, their review as also shown on Amazon:

The term 'good-faith' is almost inappropriate when applied to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, a bloody struggle interrupted every so often by negotiations that turn out to be anything but honest. Nonetheless, thirty years after his first trip to the Mideast, former President Jimmy Carter still has hope for a peaceful, comprehensive solution to the region's troubles, delivering this informed and readable chronicle as an offering to the cause. An engineer of the 1978 Camp David Accords and 2002 recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, Carter would seem to be a perfect emissary in the Middle East, an impartial and uniting diplomatic force in a fractured land. Not entirely so. Throughout his work, Carter assigns ultimate blame to Israel, arguing that the country's leadership has routinely undermined the peace process through its obstinate, aggressive and illegal occupation of territories seized in 1967. He's decidedly less critical of Arab leaders, accepting their concern for the Palestinian cause at face value, and including their anti-Israel rhetoric as a matter of course, without much in the way of counter-argument. Carter's book provides a fine overview for those unfamiliar with the history of the conflict and lays out an internationally accepted blueprint for peace.


Wow, what a remarkably neutral representation of Carter's book, especially in light of Carter's presentation of two key problems he sees standing in the way of peace, namely that some Israelis believe they have the right to confiscate and colonize Palestinian land and try to justify the sustained subjugation and persecution of increasingly hopeless and aggravated Palestinians; and that some Palestinians react by honoring suicide bombers as martyrs to be rewarded in heaven and consider the killing of Israelis as victories. If that isn't hysteric anti-Israeli rhetoric spouted by Carter, I don't know what is!

But, onto that Washington Post review.

Here's the opening (!) paragraph from that fair and balanced Washington Post review, which you seemingly think is "spot on", with my accent on some of the most egregious subjective qualifiers:

Jimmy Carter tells a strange and revealing story near the beginning of his latest book, the sensationally titled Palestine Peace Not Apartheid. It is a story that suggests that the former president's hostility to Israel is, to borrow a term, faith-based.


Oh, so Carter is hostile to Israel now? Wow, what a fair and balanced observation by the reviewer! He must know by looking into Carter's soul.

Here are the second through fourth paragraphs of that, ahem, review:

On his first visit to the Jewish state in the early 1970s, Carter, who was then still the governor of Georgia, met with Prime Minister Golda Meir, who asked Carter to share his observations about his visit. Such a mistake she never made.

"With some hesitation," Carter writes, "I said that I had long taught lessons from the Hebrew Scriptures and that a common historical pattern was that Israel was punished whenever the leaders turned away from devout worship of God. I asked if she was concerned about the secular nature of her Labor government."

Jews, in my experience, tend to become peevish when Christians, their traditional persecutors, lecture them on morality, and Carter reports that Meir was taken aback by his "temerity." He is, of course, paying himself a compliment. Temerity is mandatory when you are doing God's work, and Carter makes it clear in this polemical book that, in excoriating Israel for its sins -- and he blames Israel almost entirely for perpetuating the hundred-year war between Arab and Jew -- he is on a mission from God.


Oh yeah, we all hate it when Christian zealots creep into government, don't we.

It's interesting that Carter's deep personally moving "Christian" condition is clearly presented as a negative attribute (I don't think "persecutor" has much in the way of positive connotations, does it now?) to frame Carter's religious inspiration for his politics. Do you really think the reference to "Christian persecutors" would be used by the same author in reference to, oh say, another Christian zealot like George W Bush in connection to Israel? The answer is, of course, in the negative. And the reason for that is not that Bush would never publicly make any morally inspired remarks in the presence of another government leader (say, like something about looking into a person's soul...) but because Bush is anything but "excoriating Israel". That and only that is the key difference here. In the vein of the current persecuting-Christian-in-chief's rhetoric, you're either with us, or you're with the terrorists, and since Carter says something critical of some Israel government leaders he's part of the persecuting posse. Yeehaw!

Should I go on with the fifth paragraph? Why not:

Carter's interest in the Middle East is longstanding, of course; he brokered the first Arab-Israeli peace treaty between Egypt and Israel in 1979, and he has been rightly praised for doing so. But other aspects of his record are more bothersome. Carter, not unlike God, has long been disproportionately interested in the sins of the Chosen People. He is famously a partisan of the Palestinians, and in recent months he has offered a notably benign view of Hamas, the Islamist terrorist organization that took power in the Palestinian territories after winning a January round of parliamentary elections.


Awesome. So the peace deal of 1979 brokered at Camp David is "good" (else it wouldn't deserve to be "righteously praised", no?) while suggesting that it's "famously partisan of Palestinians" when Carter reminds the Palestinian leaders, Arab government leaders and Israel's political leaders alike (the Christian and persecuting temerity of doing so!) that acting contrary to the principles underlying the Camp David accord is counterproductive in pursuit of peace. Yes Sir, we have no bananas. Got bias?

The "notably benign view of Hamas" is another gem. After all, they're the terrorists as we all know; nevermind that they're also receivers of an overwhelming electoral backing of a Palestinian electorate fed up with a lame duck government. In a sense, Palestinians and Iranians (see note at bottom) have gone through a somewhat similar "hardening" stance, in both cases quite arguably under the pressure of the Christian persecutor / crusader Bush's "war on terror"; either way, and be that as it may, the author clearly suggests that it's a bad thing to merely acknowledge Hamas' existence as a political factor. Hamas and its support base have political and social significance; stating such is not a absolution of their sins. Oops, now I'm being a Christian persecutor. My bad.

Anyway, the rest of Mohammad al-Arabiya's (nyuk, nyuk) review in the Washington Post can be read here. And what's the relevance of this "reviewer's" name you ask? Good question. I'm fairly sure with your fair and balanced approach here, that you'll agree it's because the name and political affinity of the author has nothing whatsoever to do with his fair and balanced piece of partisan drivel.

Now, since you're seemingly troubled that the petition omits the Washington Post as the medium publishing that reviewer's piece, are you also suggesting that that opinion piece is representative of the WaPo's editorial line? Because if that's what you're suggesting, you're also suggesting that the WaPo is essentially a pro-Israeli rag. Pretty much what Carter said, too:

<snip> because of powerful political, economic, and religious forces in the United States, Israeli government decisions are rarely questioned or condemned, voices from Jerusalem dominate in our media, and most American citizens are unaware of circumstances in the occupied territories. At the same time, political leaders and news media in Europe are highly critical of Israeli policies, affecting public attitudes. Americans were surprised and angered by an opinion poll, published by the International Herald Tribune in October 2003, of 7,500 citizens in fifteen European nations, indicating that Israel was considered to be the top threat to world peace, ahead of North Korea, Iran, or Afghanistan.


You're not one of those nasty Israel-hating Christian persecutors, are you?

In case anyone else is interested in a summary of Carter's book, the publisher (Simon & Schuster) has a decent summary available right here.

*) Edited to add shameless link to a topic illustrating the byzantine nature of Bush's policy vis à vis Iran.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I read the book - did you? I said the Pub/ Weekly review said the same as the WP - did you read my
Post?

"Carter's presentation of two key problems he sees standing in the way of peace, namely that some Israelis believe they have the right to confiscate and colonize Palestinian land and try to justify the sustained subjugation and persecution of increasingly hopeless and aggravated Palestinians; and that some Palestinians react by honoring suicide bombers as martyrs to be rewarded in heaven and consider the killing of Israelis as victories."

Interesting - no one denies there is a land grab motive by some Israelis - and Taba/Geneva rejected that land grab - Geneva has the same amount of land in Israeli as there is west of the "green line" - but you knew that. So are you one of those into defending murder and murders if it is just murders of Jews and a few tourists that made the mistake of boarding a bus in Israel? And Carters tone and verbiage tries to explain why Palestinians react by honoring suicide bombers, much more than it tries to say their activities should stop.

But, as you say - onto that Washington Post review.

"the former president's hostility to Israel is, to borrow a term, faith-based." - apparently you have not read Carters book. Israeli should have the land east of the Green line because of what the Bible says, and Israel should not have the land west of the green line - again because of what the Bible says....per Carter. Do you really want to argue that Carter's logic is not faith based, or that he is not hostile to Israeli based on that faith? For the record, I am hostile to Israel because I am against the West Bank land grab - but my hostility is not a faith based hostility.

"Carter reports that Meir was taken aback by his "temerity." He is, of course, paying himself a compliment. Temerity is mandatory when you are doing God's work, and Carter makes it clear in this polemical book that, in excoriating Israel for its sins -- and he blames Israel almost entirely for perpetuating the hundred-year war between Arab and Jew -- he is on a mission from God." - a spot on comment because that is exactly how the book reads - that is the tone of the book. You really should read it

"Carter's deep personally moving "Christian" condition" - In this phrase what in the world is a condition?

You ask if "Christian persecutors" would be used by the same author in reference to George W Bush, noting that Bush's faith based logic comes to a different conclusion that Carter's faith based logic - and then imply you have proven that the criticism of Carter is now be shown to be because he is critical of Israel. A well constructed paper with any opinion that is developed logically, even one I disagree with, gets an "A" - your "A" is slipping away.

"He is famously a partisan of the Palestinians" is rejected by you, despite all of Carters other writings that note the despair of the Palestinians caused by the lousy treatment of the Palestinians - in which writings he never sees a need for the Israeli security measures. When you get around to reading his writings, or reviewing the videos of his comments, I think you will see Carter as a partisan of the Palestinians - and for the record, I do not see that as a bad thing to be - and indeed it is a good thing to be, in my opinion. The unreasonable security measures must end, the lousy treatment of and attitude toward the Palestinians must end, and the land grab must end. Carter also says in the book that the "right of return" must be tossed and the Palestinians must accept a two state solution - and again Carter is correct. I wonder, however, if you agree with Carter on this - or do you just pick your spots?

Carter does praise his Camp David and it's principle (land for peace) - and there is the claim that he has pushed land for peace when he was with Arab government leaders. And I believe him.

What I find amazing is that anyone noting Carter went over the top, converting a land grab by some into an attempt to claim Israel is a racist society (in the book he admits a racist society does not exist in Israel proper - although he wants more for Arab Israelis), is somehow biased against the Palestinians.

Then you say Hamas are the receivers of an overwhelming electoral backing of a Palestinian electorate fed up with a lame duck government. First they were fed up with a corrupt government that had suppressed Democratic Institutions since the 70's when Arafat decided he would have more control using the traditional Arab tribal governing system - as is still used by the Saudis. And "Overwhelming? Well about 1,073,000 Palestinians voted, a turnout of 77 percent of registered voters, with Hamas winning 44 percent of the popular vote (but 56 percent of the seats), while Fatah won 42 percent of the popular vote. "Overwhelming backing"? - isn't, in few of the factsm that phrase a bit like a Fox Cable News report on a 42% GOP result -eh? Hamas and its support base does indeed have political and social significance - they are just not the majority - and their leadership encourages terrorism.

The "notably benign view of Hamas" is a gem you say - why?. Carter does not spend much effort going after Hamas terror - and indeed he does not even note that Hamas is sworn to destroy the Jewish state of Israel - to stop the 2 state solution, no matter what the other 56% of the Palestinians want.

Then you dump on an American citizen - Jeffrey Goldberg - trying to imply an Israeli background - or is it a "Jewish name" -makes one a liar - got bias -eh?

You quote Carter - now correct in all things (except I bet in that nasty idea of the Palestinians tossing 99% of that "right of return" claim) - as saying the media is pretty much all pro-Israeli rag(s) - noting that Carter says some unidentified "powerful political, economic, and religious forces in the United States" are the reason Israeli government decisions are rarely questioned or condemned. while Carter finds the EU attitude toward Jews and Israeli the correct one. Guess those that find Le Pen evil are supposed to give him a pass on his comments about Jews and Israel. Funny how Carter did not see the International Herald Tribune 10/03 poll results as an indicator of Europe falling back into its gas oven mind set.

As to the Simon & Schuster blurb on their Carter book, post it at Amazon for goodness sake.

Just don't pretend an idiotic petition that ignores the fact that the Washington Post review is the view of a great many people who are not anti-anything Palestinian - other than terror - is worth any serious consideration by other than the most biased anti-Israel folks.

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Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
5. Done.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
6. Absolutely. It's criminal the way honest Dems get smeared by corpmedia whenever
they are opposing the mainstream political voices.
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chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 04:45 PM
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8. kick
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