We spend the day bashing good men who campaign hard.

It has become mindless, like a contest. They are all having to dodge the insults and misquotes of the media. In this forum people sit at their computers searching for ugly things to say.

I think it is shameful, and it is toxic to all of us now.

I wish there was a way this board could be like it was again. I don't think it will happen. There is too much hatred now. I don't think there is a way out of it, it is like a vicious circle.

I see people I have known on here for over the year I have been here. Some of them are hardly speaking to others because they are for other candidates. I see posters I thought were funny and bright, and they have turned into hateful usernames now.

There is no way in hell it is just one group doing it. It is hurting all our candidates. We are doing more than that, we are handing the GOP a victory next year.

The light at the end of the tunnel is that the winner of the primaries will have been battle tested. They will need that to counter the Misinformation machine put out by the neocons.

will enter the general in shreds. They will wear the misinformation woven by our own party.

We are in uncharted territory. There has never been so much information available with such speed in a presidential election.

It is very painful for me, connected as I am to the campaign through
a friend, to know that the main post, whether sincere or not, is
actually a Campaign tactic to muzzle Dean's opponents, and not be able to express the really anger that I feel about what is being
done to my party and my hopes in the name of a Dean win.

SNIP..."It is very painful for me, connected as I am to the campaign through
a friend, to know that the main post, whether sincere or not, is
actually a Campaign tactic to muzzle Dean's opponents...."

Are you saying that I posted this to muzzle you? Are you saying that I am using a campaign tactic that you say you know of since you are connected to the Dean campaign? But are opposed to him?

That makes no sense at all. I am very much for Dean, Clark, or Kerry, actually, and I hate what is going on here. It has become a dangerous place for our party as a whole.

I feel really bad it has come to this, that you would think I could muzzle anyone here. I don't have that power, trust me. I would feel better if you could explain further what you meant.

Back that up. Either provide evidence or apologize.

More divisiveness and doom-saying, in service to our enemies.

Sour grapes, i am beginning to think....

Everyone wants to put up a candidate who will beat Bush but we all disagree on who that should be. For me I don't hate any of the other candidate supporters but part of me says why do you want to get Bush elected? I guess those supporters see it differently so that's why the tough posts.

I compare it to the Nader posts in 2000. He can win... he can't win...

the same madness that causes soccer riots. Why the f can't people be cool about this stupid election? They're all good candidates.

It is not normal. And I do not bash candidates. I spend time here trying to correct the lies and scum that are consistently cycled and recycled about Clark, because I do not believe he deserves to be subjected by this shit storm that occurs here everyday.

Take for instance the latest thread trying to tie him to PNAC. Clark has spoken out against and written to expose those bastards. In fact, he is the only candidate doing so. And yet, some agenda driven posters feel that they must spend their days cutting and pasting in order to smear an honorable person.

Sick is too pale a word, but the moderators have set the limits, and I will abide.

I'm sure you protested vigorously the other day when Dean was being smeared re his dead brother, right?

Or when the Clark supporter was offering demeaning comments on Howard Dean's wife. You were right there, right?

BTW...as you have referred to me as "sick", you may want to know that you are walking a very fine line...I'd be careful with your characterizations.

but on all sides, it's just a handful of people that have made DU nearly worthless for discussing this primary.

Which is really too bad, of course, for Democratic Underground to be in reality the best place to go to see all dems smeared all over the place.

you have been spectacularly active and negative. It must be an entertaining avocation.

If so, please point it out.

Thanks.

I stay out of the threads, not even opening them, that have mindless titles. If the mods. cannot lock those threads, the only thing I can do that is positive is to let them die the death they so deserve. IMHO, that is the only recourse.

In sickness and health....

I have posted in the threads that you have started because I do not in anyway agree with their spirit or intent. If you are feeling guilty, I remind you that each of us controls our own mind and keyboards. I did not mention anyone's name, so why would you assume that any fingers were pointed at you? Perhaps you doth protest too much?

Because he is the front runner, no doubt, and there is a certain sour grapes effect, I am sure.

The worst Clark smears i have seen were the war criminal and Cheney, PNAc etc. threads.

On Dean, the draft-dodging and attacks on his personal faith because his wife is Jewish were not only low, but in the latter case, bigoted as well.

Sometimes I think this forum needs to be washed out with disinfectant.

A little edit will fix your error there.

because I have yet to choose a candidate, I haven't seen too much bashing and trashing on a level that should make enemies out of former friends. Hell, I know people who get bent when I don't like the movies they like. This is more important however. Some of the people who have called me on my shit here, I have the utmost respect for. In a world where cowards talk behind each others backs, it's refreshing to get real with people.

Have you?

Those who are guilty deserve any negative press. It's their punishment for the crimes they've committed.

You sound like a fair individual. Which of our candidates are criminals?

So now we have someone who is privy to the Dem candidates' rap sheets?

:shrug:

Headline in the NYT tomorrow...DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES ARE CRIMINALS.

Just how do you justify a post that implies such nonsense?

The DLC started the bad blood with the now-infamous attack by Al From on the liberal base of the party.

The war, or more accurately, the failure by leading Democrats in Congress to stand up to Bush, was the other factor that has poisoned the atmosphere.

The ongoing occupation of Iraq and the bloodbath is a daily reminder of the failure by the party leadership to oppose Bush.

I don't think things are that bad, at least not compared to the I/P forum where there is no longer a semblance of a dialogue anymore.

I will disagree on matters of policy and issues, and will articulate my differences, but I refuse to engage in this mindless game of 'Gotcha!', nor will I post matter I deem inflammatory, even if I believe it to be fundamentally correct. Why, you may ask? Simple--- there are always multiple sources for the same information on the internet, and it is not that difficult to find one which clearly presents the same information, but does so in a reasoned, yet civil manner.

Some of us here have lost sight of the fact that the election next year is about reclaiming our right as sovereign people to self-government; it is not about 'do I prefer Candidate X's position on Taiwan over Candidate Y's?', because the bottom line is that any and all of our candidates are morally, intellectually and tempermentally superior to the Unlected Fraud, regardless of their individual differences on matters of policy.

are over the top, but never will we hand the repubs a victory. We'll fight hard in the general election this time.

You wonder if the party chairman should step in behind the scenes with the campaigns and ask if they would lower the rhetoric some.
Doubt he will do this. I know that he is a polarizing force for many and many believe he has favorites. Just hope that whomever we nominate will find a way to bring those who supported others to not just vote for him but to work for him ENTHUSIASTICALLY. If not, we have no chance against the massive Bushco machine.

no matter who the nominee turns out to be, the best thing he can do is shit can the corrupt and inept McCauliff.

I wouldn't woof his wafflin' ass on a daily basis.